That sentence summarizes team kodi attitude about dsplayer. Read again the discussion from the begining with that sentence in mind. Then ask yourself why aracnoz is out, why afedchin is the only windows developer and why the discussion ALLWAYS go to a nowhere.
I don't give a damn about dsplayer = no, never, not in this planet
Ok, let's rephrase for the thicks: I don't give a damn about windows.
But you're welcome to continue polluting your beloved dsplayer thread with pointless posts, I don't mind...
(2015-11-28, 21:20)Koying Wrote: [ -> ]Quote:I could give you a detailed list of all quality differences, but if I gave you such a list, I already know that you'd forward it to the mpv devs to use as a checklist for their future development, so I'm not going to do that.
I don't give a damn about dsplayer, but this is sooo far from our values that I'd give -1 to merging just for that phrase...
(2015-11-28, 22:41)Slurm Wrote: [ -> ] (2015-11-28, 21:20)Koying Wrote: [ -> ]I don't give a damn about dsplayer, ...
Hmm, I thought the direction this discussion went was productive, but ...
(2015-11-29, 00:05)ashlar Wrote: [ -> ] (2015-11-28, 21:20)Koying Wrote: [ -> ]Quote:I could give you a detailed list of all quality differences, but if I gave you such a list, I already know that you'd forward it to the mpv devs to use as a checklist for their future development, so I'm not going to do that.
I don't give a damn about dsplayer, but this is sooo far from our values that I'd give -1 to merging just for that phrase...
Come on, guys, read before posting. aracnoz added back EVR support just to avoid depending on closed source code *and* he was ready to work on dsplayer as a binary addon when it became possible to do so.
(2015-11-29, 15:48)Doom10 Wrote: [ -> ]Dsplayer
- Smooth video project
- Reclock
- ffdshow
- avisynth
- Video pixel shader pack
- Finesharp converted to shaders
- Shader implementation of the NEDI algorythm
- Adaptative sharpen
- Sweet FX video pixel shader pack
- AC3 Filter
- xy-subfilter project
- LAV Filters
Etc.
Has it been told that dsplayer is not only madvr? Yes, of course, it has been told a lot of times but once again:
(2015-11-28, 21:20)Koying Wrote: [ -> ]I don't give a damn about dsplayer
So DSPlayer is not only madvr, just to stay on topic.
(2015-11-28, 19:37)Wanilton Wrote: [ -> ]For now I update Jarvis with all update until now.
link for download:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7799...0.dx11.exe
Warnings:
- This is an unofficial Kodi build not from Team Kodi.
- This build comes with no warranties, explicit or implied, and you use it at your own risk.
- This build was compiled by Wanilton, for use only in Windows OS, and have same functions official build + dsplayer support.
git:
https://github.com/MediaBrasil/xbmc/tree...r_dsplayer
PS: I will no update or developer dsplayer, only'll keep the current code by aracnoz update with master.
I linked to this in the set-up guide. If lucky, compiling from Git might make it possible to have a v16 RC build available.
(2015-11-29, 18:31)Koying Wrote: [ -> ]Ok, let's rephrase for the thicks: I don't give a damn about windows.
But you're welcome to continue polluting your beloved dsplayer thread with pointless posts, I don't mind...
It has become too obvious Windows is not important to many Kodi developers. However, this seems to be a vision based on personal philosophy and developer bias more than the needs of users. Considering 35% or more of Kodi users are downloading it to use with Windows, Windows is most likely under-supported.
It seems silly, given almost every HTPC sold comes with Windows installed and a savvy user base that already knows how to use the OS. It is taught in school.
So, the only way forward:
- Separate the player components and offer the video renderer as a binary, so a range of options can be used.
- Fork mpv, or a take a cue from mpv and attempt to reproduce some of madVR's features in Kodi's video player.
- Leave the video rendering options alone. I hope this is not the case. I'm sure even Linux users are annoyed by the mediocre quality of DXVA scaling and pixel shaders that don't even use an anti-ringing filter.
It would be nice if Kodi was a little more bold with its vision when it comes to the topic of "quality." TV, speaker and A/V manufacturers are obsessed with these qualities, but Kodi seems content to offer a slick user interface with a rubbish player.
(2015-11-29, 21:59)Wanilton Wrote: [ -> ]@Warner306, this is correct link for git
https://github.com/mediabrasil/xbmc
Select Branch master_dsplayer
https://github.com/mediabrasil/xbmc/tree...r_dsplayer
I'm not sure if this needs to be included in the set-up guide. I might link to it at the end in case a developer is curious. This talk about improving the player seems certain to result in a year passing (waiting for v17, at the very least) before any quality improvements show in the core player. If I could get a full year out of DSPlayer, that would be great. Event logging does not work, but the rest of the player is stable enough to use.
If our policy helps that we don't have rubbish and slick users in the future - kodi does everything right.
I don't understand why you are still here? You want to replace the render to a binary, you want to replace the player with a binary. Go and replace the rest of kodi as a binary closed source blob ... fork the project and do whatever you want to do. Team kodi has chosen their way. This way is opensource and crossplatform.
Quote:It seems silly, given almost every HTPC sold comes with Windows installed and a savvy user base that already knows how to use the OS. It is taught in school.
That's fully wrong - so unbelievable wrong. Most of the hw running kodi is ARM (Rasberry Pi) + Android. People having a full blown windows PC in their living room are the absolute minority ...
(2015-11-29, 22:08)Warner306 Wrote: [ -> ]Kodi seems content to offer a slick user interface with a rubbish player.
Regarding the "slick UI", it doesn't seem like usability/UX is one of the top priorities either. Not that it's terrible but still.
And the "anti-Windows philosophy" is a restricted and counterproductive mindset that I thought went out of fashion years ago already. To each his own, of course, but too bad for Kodi.
ok, you dont like the ui/ux/usability. you dont like the features. you dont like the overall oss mindset here. why dont you guys use something else?
(2015-11-29, 22:08)Warner306 Wrote: [ -> ]It has become too obvious Windows is not important to many Kodi developers. However, this seems to be a vision based on personal philosophy and developer bias more than the needs of users. Considering 35% or more of Kodi users are downloading it to use with Windows, Windows is most likely under-supported.
35% is a bit much, try to shave of at least 12% percent.
(2015-11-29, 22:31)Uoppi Wrote: [ -> ] (2015-11-29, 22:08)Warner306 Wrote: [ -> ]Kodi seems content to offer a slick user interface with a rubbish player.
Regarding the "slick UI", it doesn't seem like usability/UX is one of the top priorities either. Not that it's terrible but still.
And the "anti-Windows philosophy" is a restricted and counterproductive mindset that I thought went out of fashion years ago already. To each his own, of course, but too bad for Kodi.
There is nothing anti (or pro) windows to find here, we're platform agnostic.And thats the whole point of it.
(2015-11-29, 22:08)Warner306 Wrote: [ -> ] (2015-11-29, 18:31)Koying Wrote: [ -> ]Ok, let's rephrase for the thicks: I don't give a damn about windows.
But you're welcome to continue polluting your beloved dsplayer thread with pointless posts, I don't mind...
It has become too obvious Windows is not important to many Kodi developers. However, this seems to be a vision based on personal philosophy and developer bias more than the needs of users. Considering 35% or more of Kodi users are downloading it to use with Windows, Windows is most likely under-supported.
It seems silly, given almost every HTPC sold comes with Windows installed and a savvy user base that already knows how to use the OS. It is taught in school.
So, the only way forward:- Separate the player components and offer the video renderer as a binary, so a range of options can be used.
- Fork mpv, or a take a cue from mpv and attempt to reproduce some of madVR's features in Kodi's video player.
- Leave the video rendering options alone. I hope this is not the case. I'm sure even Linux users are annoyed by the mediocre quality of DXVA scaling and pixel shaders that don't even use an anti-ringing filter.
It would be nice if Kodi was a little more bold with its vision when it comes to the topic of "quality." TV, speaker and A/V manufacturers are obsessed with these qualities, but Kodi seems content to offer a slick user interface with a rubbish player.
Maybe it's time you go outside and play for several weeks instead of trolling here.
I don't really like the negative energy in the last couple of pages in this thread. I'm sad that aracnoz is gone, and I think everybody now has posted his opinion and feelings about the matter, so please let's move on.
Fact is that there's only one Windows dev atm. It's no use complaining about the lack of Windows devs. Open source devs work on what they're interested in. And if there are no more devs interested in Windows development, then there's not much that can be done about it, except users stepping up and filling the gap.
For now we have a working dsplayer version, and with a bit of luck it might be compilable for a while with newer Kodi builds. *Maybe* in the future there could be a binary interface for the video player and/or video renderer, which may then be an opportunity to revisit dsplayer, madVR etc. Continuing to bashing the Kodi devs now will do more harm than good. Maybe not everybody is happy with the devs' chosen priorities, but it's still *much* better having them work on something than not working on Kodi at all. So I for one am happy that there are several Kodi devs and that they spend lots of their free time on it without any payment.
Ok, I'm outta here for now.
I have been lurking on this thread for a while now, and I wanted to sign up to say thank you to both aracnoz and Team Kodi for all that work that went into the respective areas of the project – so first of all, thanks to everyone involved, I enjoy and appreciate your work.
My thoughts and opinions on the matter may not matter much as a new user here, but I wanted to share my experiences relating to this matter from a user perspective.
Until recently when Windows 10 started to come about, my HTPC had actually been on Windows Media Center 7 with MyMovies + MPC-HC & MadVR for several years. While Windows Media Center had its quirks, for the most part the WMC+MyMovies combo just worked. It was fast to spin up and pretty low maintenance.
Several years ago when I was setting up my HTPC I had tried XBMC/Kodi first. I wanted to love it because I love open source software, but at the time I felt like there were too many moving pieces to configure and understand, and that it was very hard to get it working the way I wanted it to; in comparison, I clicked a few prompts in Media Center and it just worked.
When news started to surface that Windows 10 would be discontinuing Media Center, I happily gave XBMC/Kodi another shot. Several years had passed and I was pleased to see that the project seemed to have come a long ways since I had last tried using it. I got my setup running fairly quickly, and moved to convert my entire HTPC over to Kodi. I then replaced my 2 media center extenders with 2 Raspberry Pi 2's running Kodi as well, and I’ve been happy since.
When spinning up Kodi I was very happy to find out about this Kodi DSPlayer build - as it meant I could pull MadVR in natively into Kodi instead of having to use external player integration w/ MPC-HC or others like I did with WMC. MadVR has a superb reputation for maximum quality - it has amazed me since the very first time I used it; I wanted to keep this on my main setup no matter what. Ironically, this meant that despite converting to Kodi, I couldn't ditch Windows on the HTPC and go to Linux - but I ended up being okay with that because MadVR is *that* good, and that valuable to me from a user perspective. This made for a much better user experience for me, as it was much more integrated and seamless.
Despite the MadVR component being closed source, I still got a huge upgrade in open source department with the rest of Kodi all being open source. This was pleasing to me as a developer, because if I encountered any bugs in the core platform, I could attempt to help fix them. While neither C++ or Python are my native languages, I hope that one day in the future I can aid in fixing some bugs if I encounter them as I become more familiar with Kodi, and over time, its code base. This is a much better situation to be in than I was with WMC7 - which had this stupid bug that drove me nuts occasionally for years, where occasionally clicking Live TV would for some unknown reason (happened extremely rarely) open the Recorded TV menu instead. I'd love to have been in a position to be able to fix that.
With that said, from a user perspective, it becomes a bit more tricky. While I’d love for everything I use to be 100% open source, I also want the best media watching experience I get, and the most things integrated as possible. Long term, I’d rather Kodi or another media center be able to be my 1 stop shop. I don’t want a Kodi HTPC and an Android/AppleTV/Roku/whatever in order to get all my services – I’d rather have one fully integrated piece of software that does everything right. In the case of Kodi DSPlayer + MadVR – it absolutely gave me the best video quality. For that reason, I installed MadVR for the same reason I’d install the binary Nvidia driver on Linux – there’s no doubt that it provides the best user experience if you seriously make use of all of its features. I wish MadVR was open source, but who am I to tell Madshi what to do with the code he writes in his free time – if competition motivates him, more power to him, as I’m still benefiting from the result as a user. Madshi is very engaged with his user base and regularly interacts with people on Doom9, and new release are frequent. I don’t have anything to complain about from a user perspective.
In the future, I’d love to be able to see support for things such as Sling TV, proper Netflix support, etc be possible in Kodi. This is where I think a binary plugin interface is not a bad idea long term for users. No matter how much we as developers and/or users may love open source, there will always be things that for whatever reason-- patents, licensing agreements, corporate policies or otherwise, cannot be open source. In this case, if I have to choose between having a Kodi and an additional commercial device(s), a Kodi and forfeiting key commercial services, or a Kodi and a binary plugin for a commercial service or renderer, I’d happily take option 3. It’s far better than being stuck on fully closed source platforms or devices.
This is where I feel like having a stable binary plugin interface would be to the benefit of the end users long term. It is far easier for companies to offer support for projects in such a manner, where they may not be in the position to open their source. Having binary plugin options does not mean that any default configuration has to be a binary blob – it just allows for more potential options for the end user which is a good thing. I hope that one day in the future, such an interface is possible, so that whether it is madVR, Netflix, or Sling TV, we may have a shot at getting real, supported integrations in Kodi.
While this may not happen even with a binary plugin interface, I would be inclined to think from my development experience that it would at least make it easier to consider supporting for a commercial company. Most companies don’t want to go anywhere near the GPL for various legal reasons, and a binary interface would provide them a way to provide support, versus none at all. Yes, this may not be philosophically ideal, but, I’d still take a mostly open source platform versus a proprietary one any day, if it gave me the best user experience.
Anyways, I apologize for the long wall of text. Thank you to everyone involved in making both Kodi and DSPlayer a reality. I’m sad to see aracnoz exit, but I would hope that in the future both sides of this debate can work out their differences and come to a mutual agreement that can benefit the end users who enjoy this functionality.
(2015-11-29, 22:19)fritsch Wrote: [ -> ]If our policy helps that we don't have rubbish and slick users in the future - kodi does everything right.
I don't understand why you are still here? You want to replace the render to a binary, you want to replace the player with a binary. Go and replace the rest of kodi as a binary closed source blob ... fork the project and do whatever you want to do. Team kodi has chosen their way. This way is opensource and crossplatform.
Quote:It seems silly, given almost every HTPC sold comes with Windows installed and a savvy user base that already knows how to use the OS. It is taught in school.
That's fully wrong - so unbelievable wrong. Most of the hw running kodi is ARM (Rasberry Pi) + Android. People having a full blown windows PC in their living room are the absolute minority ...
Ok, I can accept the argument about the trend towards small boxes in front of televisions. I am still wishing for greater options in video rendering scross all platforms.
I am pissed off someone from Team Kodi called me a troll. I have so many posts because I spend a lot of time helping other users. Some days I don't even touch Kodi but still answer questions on this forum, and not just in this thread.