Kodi Community Forum

I did not intend to post more messages here before leaving, but a recent nonsense from Koying on Google+ force me to, as maybe some other persons believe this bullshit.

Koying Wrote:There is something vaguely ironic having +Tolriq explaining us how GPL works...

He has been asked several times for yatse to be the official Kodi remote in the past, that implying that he'd have to open-source it, and he always refused.

So, basically, he's one of the numerous leeches making money out of Kodi, which makes any speech of his regarding "community" rather comical, in a sense.

Do I have to mention how childish it is to "refuse" that one of his PR be merged due to personal fights?

Never forget, guys: some are doing Kodi for fun (us), some are doing it for the money...

The small version for peoples that hate long texts :


- "He has been asked several times for yatse to be the official Kodi remote in the past, that implying that he'd have to open-source it, and he always refused."

This is false, I was never ever asked by anyone from the team to make Yatse official Kodi remote, or to open source it.

- "he's one of the numerous leeches making money out of Kodi" / "some are doing Kodi for fun (us), some are doing it for the money... "

Again completely false, see below, but 100% of my work for Kodi is not about money it started before Yatse for Android and is user related, either allowing more things to be done by everyone or fixing bugs.
I'm here and contributing since way before Yatse for Android and have open sourced the Windows version of the application.
I do now make a little money from Yatse since users ask me how they can give money to me.
I did try to even contribute more when I started making money, but the full history about external contributors is public on this forum.
I did try to donate but there's no public record of Foundation money usage after 2013.


The long version :

I'm a user since XBMP on modded XBOX, when I discovered later that it was coming to Windows, I decided to move to the HTPC world.

I did choose a case with a touchscreen as I find the idea quite perfect, but there was no tool that fitted my need.

Since I learn things fast even if I'm not a dev, I decided to learn C# / WPF and start making an application : http://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=68936
Application that is free, without ads, now open source in GPL https://github.com/Tolriq/Yatse2 and continued as Front View+ by someone else : http://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=259087

So well seems after all I know GPL and open source

During all that time I did try to contribute more than just a free app, I helped users to use JSON, helped defining the needs and more.

A few years later a friends showed me Android and an app he was doing, and I again find that perfect to fit my learning desires.
There was already an official Android remote but it was written by some wonderful code guru and overly complicated for someone that wanted to learn something.
You can't learn to drive on a ferrari, it was the same.

So I started Yatse for Android as a learning game http://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=117885 (Was a simple widget at start), and as I always do, it was a free application without ads just to learn.
But as always users did love my work and asked me to add more and more things, and as it was always a challenge I did fill their needs, making Yatse what it is now, a user centric application. (And real RERO but that's another story)

At some point users asked me to make the application paid and I did answer their will, it was never the main point or objective.

Yatse is still fully featured without ads, paid features are 100% optional and not needed to fully remote control Kodi and much more.

A long time after when Yatse started to give me a little money, I did search how I can give back more to the community than just support and some coding.

I did try to donate but there's no public record of money of the Foundation after 2013.

So I tried to code more and to find a way to work correctly with the Team. This leads to a major problem that is still present : http://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=166398

Problem that can be resumed as there's no way to discuss Kodi code before making a PR that anyone can refuse, leading to tons of time lost on each parties.
And this is not really acceptable in a world where time is the only thing you can't buy or recover.

I still do PR some times to fix problems or add simple features that I hope will not generate hours of useless discussions, and as Montellese is no more available I did try to act as the guardian of JSON by trying to have his decisions applied since I have the full history since day 1 and a good memory.

Anyway I also made some PR like https://github.com/xbmc/xbmc/pull/9245 that close major security hole in Kodi.
This PR typically generated thousands of support and bad rating to Yatse and actually cost me money.
Quite the opposite of "some are doing for money."

So even if most won't read this, I hope this brings answers to those who may have doubts about my motivations since 7 years.

Because unlike those quite big lies, I'm one of the very few that did try to give back and contribute for making a little money.

PS : @Koying since you seems to ignore my answers to your message in G+, I inform you that the formal complaint is filled and validated by my lawyer and will be deposed tomorrow if you do not either prove your allegation or do public excuses.
For public defamation / calumny you risk in France 12 000€ at least and in Belgium : http://www.actualitesdroitbelge.be/subse...roit-penal
You should really read this link as since you loved to talked about GPL I will love to talk about real life law.
You can't say you are not warned.

PPS : I know that this message was posted by Koying and represent only his appreciation, but the content does represent more than just him.

Please avoid nonsense in this thread, this is what is called the right to answer to public defamation.

(2016-08-03, 12:10)Tolriq Wrote: [ -> ]PS : @Koying since you seems to ignore my answers to your message in G+, I inform you that the formal complaint is filled and validated by my lawyer and will be deposed tomorrow if you do not either prove your allegation or do public excuses.

Huh, you're doing what?
You're loosing it, man...

Good luck to have me condemned with :

"he's one of the numerous leeches making money out of Kodi,": I'm sure you'll have fun convincing a judge you don't make money with Yatse, which wouldn't exist without Kodi
"Never forget, guys: some are doing Kodi for fun (us), some are doing it for the money... ": Err... That's just a fact

Please, continue making grandiloquent "freedom of speech" discourse, you're totally consistent

yada yada yada, all said before, think of all the time we would have to make Kodi better for users if you could just stop with this shit all the god damn time. It takes time and energy from everyone so please just shut up and go away

Just to be clear Paxxi, there's no hate or anything in this thread just answering to some lies.

I'm leaving but I certainly can't let such big lies unanswered.

The best being that I refused multiple times to make yatse official, this is the best joke ever.

Koying, you asked for it, you should really take time to read that link, because it's already validated that you are in the defamation case, having a company have some privileges, like having a lawyer
The fact that Yatse makes money is unrelated to your lies about the team asking for yatse to be official and the fact that I'm a leech (so bad) and that my contributions for Kodi are to make money.

And most important about why and how your message was putted all together.

Those 3 sentences are defamation, since they are not only false but you obviously can't prove that and they were posted publicly in the goal to harm my reputation.
There's nothing to convince a judge about it's the law and the definition of defamation.

Since you are in another country I can't use the accelerated way, but you'll have some things to deal with pretty soon.

I thought the Foundation's money flow was public for ages by the way. I distinctly remember the Google docs sheet being linked several times.

From http://kodi.wiki/view/XBMC_Foundation only https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1...edit#gid=8 is available 2013.

But I hope it was not misunderstood, there's no accusations or anything about that, just a fact when I searched back then and one of the reasons of my willing to switch to contribute more by code.

Ah well that is not good, but a simple issue where we forgot to update the public sheet. I am sure the financials were discussed during Devcon every year and might even have been live broadcasted at that time: they are not a secret.

To be honest, an email would have sufficed and the data updated.

We're not an organisation with a strict administrative / financial team. We make sure nothing untowards happens or can happen with the money and that it is accounted for.

The money story is quite simple - nearly all the money we receive is used for the yearly DevCon.

(2016-08-03, 12:10)Tolriq Wrote: [ -> ]Problem that can be resumed as there's no way to discuss Kodi code before making a PR that anyone can refuse, leading to tons of time lost on each parties.
And this is not really acceptable in a world where time is the only thing you can't buy or recover.

I would like to point out that if you feel your time has been wasted by a PR being refused then man up and deal with it, it's not a reason to sulk. I've had PR's rejected and I'm a member of the Team, do I sulk at having my time wasted? do I take it as some personal insult? no I don't, instead I either take on board the reason for the rejection and either try to do it another way that meets the expressed concerns, or just move on completely to do other things to improve Kodi.

If you want to try and minimise any wasted time, then simply push a proof of concept to your fork on github, then you can ping any github users from whom you'd like feedback before even having to create a PR. That way you can be sure that when the code is in a fit state to be PR'd there will be a good chance it'll be accepted.

(2016-08-03, 14:25)jjd-uk Wrote: [ -> ]I would like to point out that if you feel your time has been wasted by a PR being refused then man up and deal with it, it's not a reason to sulk.

Actually, I'd argue that a PR is just the act of sharing to the community a modification that you made to an open-source program to enhance it, according to your own standards.
As your modifications were made to better fit your personal needs/taste/whatever, it's not supposed to be wasted time, ever.

(2016-08-03, 14:25)jjd-uk Wrote: [ -> ]I would like to point out that if you feel your time has been wasted by a PR being refused then man up and deal with it, it's not a reason to sulk. I've had PR's rejected and I'm a member of the Team, do I sulk at having my time wasted? do I take it as some personal insult? no I don't, instead I either take on board the reason for the rejection and either try to do it another way that meets the expressed concerns, or just move on completely to do other things to improve Kodi.

The thread is moving from initial purpose of answering to Koying lies but let's take that example that each time is transformed to I complain about my time lost and a PR refused.

I'll try to make it fast so that for once things are read, please take time to really read all before making shortcuts like paxxi that insult me without having read what I wrote, I write my history on this thread and he write we know go away, good sample

Anyway :
- http://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=163215 this is a thread that was hard to have from Montellese to know on what any dev can work and take.
- This TODO list that ANY dev can take contains a line that says : [F] add recursive listing to GetDirectory (see Trac #11209)
- I did this PR https://github.com/xbmc/xbmc/pull/2773 since I already have done 2 other PR to add recursive to other functions.
- The reason for the PR to be rejected is : I'd prefere not having this. If we end up in a recursive loop, it will kill xbmc. While the client can abort if it's in control.
- Even if the reasons for the PR refusal are wrong for many reasons that I tried to explain the main problem is that this line is still in the TODO list
- Meaning any dev that come can take this one, and have it's PR refused because in fact the feature is unwanted.

So if you take time to read what I write since 3 years, this is not a .... problem about my PR refused, this is about the lack of respect to any future dev by not updating this list and taking necessary measure to avoid time lost on something that is know to be problematic later.
So yes there's an external dev handling problem, the mantra to each users asking things is go and code, even if some know the feature would be refused later because one guy on the Team does not want the feature.

So once for all, this is not about me unlike some like to pretend this is about global Kodi handling of external devs.

And to complete with Koying last answer :

Quote:Actually, I'd argue that a PR is just the act of sharing to the community a modification that you made to an open-source program to enhance it, according to your own standards.
As your modifications were made to better fit your personal needs/taste/whatever, it's not supposed to be wasted time, ever.

Those PR are from a list asking people to do those features ! So yes it's wasted time to ask people to do things that you do not want, and total lack of respect.

Making a publicly available post and putting a member of the team by full name in it is over the top already. Handing a response to that post to a lawyer is just unreal. Tolriq, make a vacation or so. This is spinning out of control and will lead to nothing good. Using the first day after a ban for something like this. I just don't get it.

I actually also thought that you had been asked about Yatse becoming the official remote along opensourcing it - seems I remembered wrong, like most of the team it seems.

(2016-08-03, 14:59)da-anda Wrote: [ -> ]I actually also thought that you had been asked about Yatse becoming the official remote along opensourcing it - seems I remembered wrong, like most of the team it seems.

Thanks for confirming, because Koying accusations are unreal. And I really hope some other read the whole things I write here to understand the history, and the reality of things, that are very far from I'm a leech and try to make benefit from Kodi without giving back.
It's the complete opposite since many many years and reading that is more than insults that's why since he refuse to admit the lies and to make apologies I'll push toward the end.

Tolriq
You always want people to properly read what you write...

...did you read the description of the JSON-RPC feature list?
lemme quote something for ya

Quote:The idea is to list all ideas and to decide whether something makes sense or not. If something is wanted and would be accepted into XBMC it will be in green. If it hasn't been decided yet it will be in black and if it has been "declined" it will be in red.

Granted, by now that feature should be listed red, but black still doesn't mean it'll be accepted.

Just saying

(2016-08-03, 14:55)DarkHelmet Wrote: [ -> ]Handing a response to that post to a lawyer is just unreal.

I'm expecting a letter from the lawyer of Mr. Tolriq Yatse anytime, now. Oh, wait...
Unless Tolriq/Yatse are registered trademark of a Business? But that would make my point, wouldn't it