Kodi Community Forum

I've been with you guys since 2008. I've watched XBMC grow and become such an awesome bit of software to have on the media centers of all my family's homes. But, honestly, what is happening with all the piracy issues? Ever since the Kodi rename, stuff has been getting worse. There are numerous 'Kodi Facebook Groups' exceeding thousands of members, and they all have people who are deluded, who believe that Kodi is software for streaming TV for free and who believe Kodi is software that requires you to run an illegal 'build' containing broken addons and shoddy scripts. They are too uneducated to know anything about Media Center software and its uses. And there is no time worth wasting either- explaining stuff to 30000 members of a group is a super hard task.

Excuse me if you've seen this kind of post before, but I really want to know, what's going on? Is your only plan to 'ignore' the piracy issues? It's gotten to the point where Facebook *ALLOWS* Kodi Box sellers to ADVERTISE through the Facebook Ads platform. I've seen many UK-based sellers who sell Kodi on 'preloaded IPTV boxes' for somewhere around £90, and it's all there, casually scrolling through my newsfeed.

So, yeah. What's going on lads? It'd be an honest shame if the project were to be damaged in any way. The Kodi name is relatively new, and it's already been somewhat tarnished, unfortunately.

(2016-12-06, 00:26)OnKz Wrote: [ -> ]I've been with you guys since 2008. I've watched XBMC grow and become such an awesome bit of software to have on the media centers of all my family's homes. But, honestly, what is happening with all the piracy issues? Ever since the Kodi rename, stuff has been getting worse. There are numerous 'Kodi Facebook Groups' exceeding thousands of members, and they all have people who are deluded, who believe that Kodi is software for streaming TV for free and who believe Kodi is software that requires you to run an illegal 'build' containing broken addons and shoddy scripts. They are too uneducated to know anything about Media Center software and its uses. And there is no time worth wasting either- explaining stuff to 30000 members of a group is a super hard task.

Excuse me if you've seen this kind of post before, but I really want to know, what's going on? Is your only plan to 'ignore' the piracy issues? It's gotten to the point where Facebook *ALLOWS* Kodi Box sellers to ADVERTISE through the Facebook Ads platform. I've seen many UK-based sellers who sell Kodi on 'preloaded IPTV boxes' for somewhere around £90, and it's all there, casually scrolling through my newsfeed.

So, yeah. What's going on lads? It'd be an honest shame if the project were to be damaged in any way. The Kodi name is relatively new, and it's already been somewhat tarnished, unfortunately.

You probably have no idea how much effort some of our people put into exactly these issues, and how difficult it can be to take down random shit from the internet.
Also see this: https://kodi.tv/the-piracy-box-sellers-a...ling-kodi/

I imagine that Kodi rather lacks the necessary legal resources to launch a massive global search and destroy initiative where it sends off legal challenges against every individual distributer of 'Fully Loaded Kodi' in an effort to squash them so I don't think it's fair to fault Kodi for that.

(2016-12-06, 00:29)phil65 Wrote: [ -> ]

(2016-12-06, 00:26)OnKz Wrote: [ -> ]I've been with you guys since 2008. I've watched XBMC grow and become such an awesome bit of software to have on the media centers of all my family's homes. But, honestly, what is happening with all the piracy issues? Ever since the Kodi rename, stuff has been getting worse. There are numerous 'Kodi Facebook Groups' exceeding thousands of members, and they all have people who are deluded, who believe that Kodi is software for streaming TV for free and who believe Kodi is software that requires you to run an illegal 'build' containing broken addons and shoddy scripts. They are too uneducated to know anything about Media Center software and its uses. And there is no time worth wasting either- explaining stuff to 30000 members of a group is a super hard task.

Excuse me if you've seen this kind of post before, but I really want to know, what's going on? Is your only plan to 'ignore' the piracy issues? It's gotten to the point where Facebook *ALLOWS* Kodi Box sellers to ADVERTISE through the Facebook Ads platform. I've seen many UK-based sellers who sell Kodi on 'preloaded IPTV boxes' for somewhere around £90, and it's all there, casually scrolling through my newsfeed.

So, yeah. What's going on lads? It'd be an honest shame if the project were to be damaged in any way. The Kodi name is relatively new, and it's already been somewhat tarnished, unfortunately.

You probably have no idea how much effort some of our people put into exactly these issues, and how difficult it can be to take down random shit from the internet.
Also see this: https://kodi.tv/the-piracy-box-sellers-a...ling-kodi/

(2016-12-06, 04:48)DJ_Izumi Wrote: [ -> ]I imagine that Kodi rather lacks the necessary legal resources to launch a massive global search and destroy initiative where it sends off legal challenges against every individual distributer of 'Fully Loaded Kodi' in an effort to squash them so I don't think it's fair to fault Kodi for that.

I call BS for both comments, you link an article from Feb. I wonder if anything is actually being done. Like OnKz asked and I have the same question "Is your only plan to 'ignore' the piracy issues?" I don't use Kodi I have however had a number of clients coming in with reports of suspected botnet activity from their ISP's after buying "loaded" Kodi devices. It led me to start pushing back against local sellers as in your Feb. post you asked for people help. From then until now it is everywhere, and when you argue the point in your posted article people post that they can go out to multiple sources and can obtain the same product. Is your 10 month old post just a "hey were doing something" when your not? You advise " common sense" and the buyers of these loaded boxes don't have that. You can't or as both post state do not have the resources to combat the issue, and if that is the case are mitm, ,and botnet issues something that needs to be addressed, or can't be?

What do you want to hear now?

what world are you guys living in? kodi is free software - anybody can do whatever they want with it, within the limits set by the GPL. it's under nobody's control, and that was a well considered original design goal for the project. this draconian world you seem to live in where you think team kodi exhibits any sorts of control over the software does not at all reflect reality.

all those devices run linux! why aren't linux doing anything about it?

(2016-12-06, 08:38)Memphiz Wrote: [ -> ]What do you want to hear now?

Exactly. We assure everyone there are no botnets in Kodi.
Does technology go faster than the capacity of most to grasp it? Totally, but nothing we can do about it.

Then, half of the US voted for Trump, so maybe there is a basic issue of plain stupidity and/or education at hand?
And where stupidity lies, you'll find sharks ready to take advantage of it...

All these pirate add-ons are starting to kill their own sources now because of their popularity. The hosting sites hate them because the add-ons get around the ads that the hosting sites need to serve to make money. Torrentfreak reported last month that several sites have shut down because they could not afford the loss of revenue on top of the amount of bandwidth that the add-ons were consuming.

Hopefully other sites (as they are doing now) will continue in their efforts to block the add-ons. Ironic that these sites that host pirate content are upset because third party add-ons are stealing it !!

(2016-12-06, 07:56)Djsmurf Wrote: [ -> ]I call BS for both comments, you link an article from Feb. I wonder if anything is actually being done. Like OnKz asked and I have the same question "Is your only plan to 'ignore' the piracy issues?" I don't use Kodi I have however had a number of clients coming in with reports of suspected botnet activity from their ISP's after buying "loaded" Kodi devices. It led me to start pushing back against local sellers as in your Feb. post you asked for people help. From then until now it is everywhere, and when you argue the point in your posted article people post that they can go out to multiple sources and can obtain the same product. Is your 10 month old post just a "hey were doing something" when your not? You advise " common sense" and the buyers of these loaded boxes don't have that. You can't or as both post state do not have the resources to combat the issue, and if that is the case are mitm, ,and botnet issues something that needs to be addressed, or can't be?

So did you tell your clients they're stupid idiots? Or did you blame kodi?

As long as Amazon and ebay make money with selling kodi boxes, there is hardly anything team Kodi can do against it. Just put "kodi" into the search box at Amazon and ebay and you see what I mean. Do you really think team Kodi can fight against Amazon and ebay? Just not realistic.

Add the irony that Amazon banned Kodi itself from their app store, does not offer access to their legitimate streaming services through addons and you have the situation as it is now.

(2016-12-06, 00:29)phil65 Wrote: [ -> ]You probably have no idea how much effort some of our people put into exactly these issues, and how difficult it can be to take down random shit from the internet.
Also see this: https://kodi.tv/the-piracy-box-sellers-a...ling-kodi/

I am aware of that post, I saw it a few days after it being online.
I may have a relatively unused account on these forums, but trust me, I've been following these issues for a while now, and I know how much effort is being put in. I fully support everything you guys do, but I was simply just asking what you're doing, exactly. It would be great to tell the community about the measures that have been taken by Team Kodi in order to sort these issues out.

(2016-12-06, 04:48)DJ_Izumi Wrote: [ -> ]I imagine that Kodi rather lacks the necessary legal resources to launch a massive global search and destroy initiative where it sends off legal challenges against every individual distributer of 'Fully Loaded Kodi' in an effort to squash them so I don't think it's fair to fault Kodi for that.

Honestly, do you remember when Fake Beats By Dre headphones were popular in 2012/2013? Amazon, eBay, etc- they have all BANNED the fakes, in agreement with the Beats By Dre companies and their terms. No money involved. It's similar to the Flappy Bird fiasco- phones which had preloaded copies of Flappy Bird were removed from eBay as requested by the developer, and it was all good.

So why couldn't Team Kodi try doing something similar? I know its impossible to remove EVERYTHING, but its great to start at the biggest points of sale like online stores on eBay and Amazon.

(2016-12-06, 07:56)Djsmurf Wrote: [ -> ]I wonder if anything is actually being done. Like OnKz asked and I have the same question "Is your only plan to 'ignore' the piracy issues?" I don't use Kodi I have however had a number of clients coming in with reports of suspected botnet activity from their ISP's after buying "loaded" Kodi devices.

Now you see, this is the real issue! We have users who give a bad reputation to the Kodi name and say things like "oh yeah, I never got to watch the big game last Friday, my Kodi was playing up again, stupid devs never get anything right" when, IN REALITY, it's the users own fault for using Kodi wrongly, and blaming the devs for it's breakage and unreliability. It's the shoddy 3rd-party Addon developers who take credit for Kodi being able to play 'free live sports' and Kodi gets known to the general public as 'the app to stream free sports from'

We all know Kodi is not an illegal bit of software, and we all know that the developers of Kodi are some of the best developers we have ever seen working on any project, ever. (or at least, in my opinion, they are really awesome) But, it's unfortunate when your amazing work can get such a bad reputation by the general public.

But what else can they believe? I don't blame them for thinking bad of Kodi! They are educated in their own manner- Facebook advertising shows them offers for TV boxes with Kodi preloaded onto them. Facebook groups like 'KODI Addicts' claim to be 'official Kodi support' and claim to have 'the best IPTV services ever' and people join on the basis that 'Kodi = Yummy Free IPTV App'

(2016-12-06, 08:45)ironic_monkey Wrote: [ -> ]what world are you guys living in? kodi is free software - anybody can do whatever they want with it, within the limits set by the GPL.

There are no limits to the customization and open features of Kodi, but the developers should put some sort of anti-piracy measures in place. Not like some DRM crap, but they should have some sort of official way of installing addons. Maybe having 'approved' addon repos. Like the iOS App Store where Apple must approve all apps before being online, Kodi should have a dedicated Repo Center, and only 'approved' repos are allowed to be on there, which makes things safer and easier for all users. Other '3rd party' repos should be rejected, and users would need to manually add the repo. Then some sort of Blacklist would be awesome to WARN the users that they are using an illegal, unofficial repo. Just an idea. It's not a limitation, it's a safety feature, and it keeps Kodi's integrity clear to the user.

(2016-12-06, 08:45)ironic_monkey Wrote: [ -> ]all those devices run linux! why aren't linux doing anything about it?

Yes, all the preloaded devices run Android. Well done.
How does that relate to this conversation?
The operating system of a device has nothing to do with the software, or with the piracy.
And 'Linux' aren't people- Linux is not a person.

Linux is a collective project made by Linus Torvalds, with thousands of contributors all across the globe.
And he likes Android, because it's free and open source, just like Linux is, which is because it uses the Linux kernel.

You see, the idea I was talking about (Repo Center) is similar to how most Linux distros allow users to install software packages. You'd usually use something like 'sudo apt-get install' or 'yum install' to get an app from the repos that were provided in the distro already, and users are able to add their own repos, but are warned that they are not official. Like Canonical and how they manage Ubuntu repos.

And something similar would work with Kodi- but until then, the devs need to think about how this kind of thing can be implemented, and honestly, you devs need to speak to the community a lot more. It would be awesome to hear updates about the situation. EVEN IF the updates are negative and are not good news, we would still appreciate any kind of updates about the situation.

Again, I really love the work you guys put into Kodi. I'm only talking about this stuff because as a community, it would be nice to get some answers once in a while.

(2016-12-06, 21:21)OnKz Wrote: [ -> ]Honestly, do you remember when Fake Beats By Dre headphones were popular in 2012/2013? Amazon, eBay, etc- they have all BANNED the fakes, in agreement with the Beats By Dre companies and their terms. No money involved. It's similar to the Flappy Bird fiasco- phones which had preloaded copies of Flappy Bird were removed from eBay as requested by the developer, and it was all good.

Just on this point. Beats (and now Apple) would have probably spent millions protecting their trademark. It's one thing having a trademark it's another thing protecting it and trademark lawyers ain't cheap. The flappy birds thing i don't know about, but I can imagine he had a similar fire fighting exercise with eBay for the 6 weeks that game was popular!

and how would that 'anti piracy measure' (i love the use of the word 'some' - you obviously have thought this very well through) avoid being just ripped out of the code immediatly? as a matter of fact i would be the first to do so myself simple out of principle should the team ever try such nonsense.

the point of mentioning linux was that it's just as 'guilty' as kodi - it's software being used by *HUMANS* to do naughty things. blame the humans. why would the media player have to carry blame when the os is innocent? your logic falls flat on its ass. linux is also an organization (the linux foundation), just like kodi is both a software and an organization (the 'XBMC' foundation), so i still think it works very well as an analogue (and not really relevant, but i've used linux since 1995 so i know its history and how it works quite well).

and the repo bit. lol. from the very beginning, back in 2009 or so, when *I* coded up the kodi repo and add-on system, it has worked *EXACTLY* like you suggest. there's an official repo with audited add-ons, shipped with the app. then anybody is free to add whatever extra repos they want to. none of your concern.

the warning you want has been in there since 16.0 i think, so that bit took a bit longer. and i still think it's useless. any half-skilled money grubber would of course immediately remove that from the kodi running on their devices so it only ends up harassing users who know what they are doing in the first place. pretty much like trying to buy a movie on a spinning platter these days.

Like any other infringement of rights or law, enforcement is done by the rights holder or the authorities who handle enforcement. The Kodi team is essentially a third party, it's not its responsibility to stop those who are infringing rights or breaking the law.

Robbers hit a bank, take money, drive away.

The police look for them, the bank looks for them to get its money back. Chevy or chrysler or Ford don't have a responsibility to do anything just because it was their car used in the getaway. Kodi is the car. Anyone who thinks that the car manufacturer had anything to do with the robbery because it supplied a universally available device for "doing stuff" is mistaken.

This was all played out many years ago when cassette recorders came on the scene. Sony or Pioneer or whomever were free to sell their devices. If anyone copied and sold music, the regulators or the police dealt with them for doing that. Nobody expected the device manufacturer to "stop it". Just as with Kodi, there are legitimate uses and illegitimate uses. As long as you make it clear that the illegitimate uses are not supported, that's about all you can do. In this digital age, law enforcement, rights holders and regulators can't "stop it", thinking that a small project could is very idealistic thinking.