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+--- Thread: Radical changes in the _default_ interface (Confluence skin) (/showthread.php?tid=106367)
Radical changes in the _default_ interface (Confluence skin) - JabberwockPL - 2011-07-27
I wanted to grab the latest version for some software improvements and ended up with significantly changed interface (again). I was not too happy about it, my wife and my four-year old son (who otherwise handles XBMC quite well) were totally confused! Of course, I hastily reversed the update.
Considering that HTPCs are often used by whole families, ie. also people who do not necessarily embrace every technological change, would it not be a good idea to have the default interface (skin) to stay the same between the versions as long as it is technically possible? I know the "vertical" Confluence has been added afterwards (the link is not working, by the way), but the author states it will no longer be supported after the next version.
Having a situation where the HTPC "admins" will have to choose between having an up-to-date underlying system or the interface their users got used to is not very comfortable in my opinion...
- imott - 2011-07-27
JabberwockPL Wrote:I wanted to grab the latest version for some software improvements and ended up with significantly changed interface (again). I was not too happy about it, my wife and my four-year old son (who otherwise handles XBMC quite well) were totally confused! Of course, I hastily reversed the update.
Considering that HTPCs are often used by whole families, ie. also people who do not necessarily embrace every technological change, would it not be a good idea to have the default interface (skin) to stay the same between the versions as long as it is technically possible? I know the "vertical" Confluence has been added afterwards (the link is not working, by the way), but the author states it will no longer be supported after the next version.
Having a situation where the HTPC "admins" will have to choose between having an up-to-date underlying system or the interface their users got used to is not very comfortable in my opinion...
Betas are Betas...
Buyer beware.
Sorry.
- JabberwockPL - 2011-07-27
Are you saying that the official release will have the "old" skin? It does not seem so:
Quote:Many of you who have been using nightly versions of XBMC may have noticed that recently Confluence went through a dramatic change to the home screen.
Since I know many people will have an issue with this I have decided that for the XBMC eden release cycle I will maintain a separate Vertical home skin with all the other changes made just not the home screen like so but after eden you will need to find someone else to maintain this or get used to the superior new one
- olympia - 2011-07-27
JabberwockPL Wrote:I know the "vertical" Confluence has been added afterwards (the link is not working, by the way)
Which link?
Decent "HTPC admins" would just go into System/Add-ons/Get-Addons/Skin and installed "Verical Confluence" from there. All from within XBMC without having to bother any hacking.
- JabberwockPL - 2011-07-27
The thread that describes Confluence Vertical has the download link, which is inactive. I admit I did not check the automatic addon system.
But it won't matter much if the skin is no longer supported, will it? Then the question I've asked will be relevant again...
- butchabay - 2011-07-27
Who says that confluence will still be the standard default skin in eden ?
- SpectreX - 2011-07-27
What`s the difference between pressing right-left instead of up/down to select a menu item.....?
Confluence Vertical for Eden (Old School home) - Mudislander - 2011-07-27
JabberwockPL Wrote:I wanted to grab the latest version for some software improvements and ended up with significantly changed interface (again). I was not too happy about it, my wife and my four-year old son (who otherwise handles XBMC quite well) were totally confused! Of course, I hastily reversed the update.
Considering that HTPCs are often used by whole families, ie. also people who do not necessarily embrace every technological change, would it not be a good idea to have the default interface (skin) to stay the same between the versions as long as it is technically possible? I know the "vertical" Confluence has been added afterwards (the link is not working, by the way), but the author states it will no longer be supported after the next version.
Having a situation where the HTPC "admins" will have to choose between having an up-to-date underlying system or the interface their users got used to is not very comfortable in my opinion...
Confluence Vertical for Eden (Old School home)
Posted end of May
- joethefox - 2011-07-27
The great thing of open source projects is that everyone can
contribute to improve the project itself. I had similar issue with the brand new horizontal skin like other users but I can't blame xbmc team just because I don't feel good with the new interface. moreover the old vertical skin is already here, so what we can ask more
? to answer who ask what's the difference, here are described my difficulties with an horizontal menù: http://forum.xbmc.org/showthread.php?tid=102558
Better is the enemy of the good - JabberwockPL - 2011-07-27
Quote:Who says that confluence will still be the standard default skin in eden ?
Oh well, if the whole default skin changes, then there will be even less user experience continuity, right? That's exactly what I'm talking about...
Quote:What`s the difference between pressing right-left instead of up/down to select a menu item.....?
Maybe not much for you and for me. But there are users (e.g. older persons) who have problems remembering the correct setup even once. Changing it all over again every few months will make it even harder on them.
Besides, there are many other small changes... For example, the thumbnails view changed again - there is one more item in the row now, so e.g. the layout of the folders is different. It doesn't matter? Well, it does - my son does not read yet, so he used the visual position to select those he wanted - now he would need to relearn that again (maybe there is an option to change that, but I could not find it).
Maybe all those changes are an improvement (although some of them seem to be change for change's sake). I am sure they would be great in Confluence 2.0 etc. The problem is that if the old version is no longer supported, they are suddenly made obligatory for everyone. I do not think that's what default skin should be about...
Just imagine...
"To drive the new highway you need to upgrade to Car 2.4. No cost involved, enjoy!"
You do and in the morning you get in the car - then you see something is wrong. Radio is completely new, so you cannot find any station you like, air-conditioning button is switched with the sprinkler, pedals are a bit off, dials are different so it takes a bit longer to read them... You can still drive the car, of course, but is it still a great driving experience?
Still, you would like to drive that new road, so you bite the bullet and get used to the presumed improvements. But you don't get attached to them, you never know if they make it to the next upgrade....
- jmarshall - 2011-07-28
Then don't drive on the new road. Your old car isn't suddently going to refuse to drive on the old roads. In time it will get a flat tyre every now and then and some stuff will stop working. You either maintain the old car yourself, get a friend to do so for you, pay someone else to fix it, or go to the dealer and check out all the nice new shiny cars.
- stoli - 2011-07-28
jmarshall Wrote:Then don't drive on the new road. Your old car isn't suddently going to refuse to drive on the old roads. In time it will get a flat tyre every now and then and some stuff will stop working. You either maintain the old car yourself, get a friend to do so for you, pay someone else to fix it, or go to the dealer and check out all the nice new shiny cars.
Cheers to that! Working in the software industry I hear all the time "well the last version did blah, bring it back".
Change is good - embrace it!
- Jezz_X - 2011-07-28
I was going to keep out of this conversation but as the person who actually did the "Radical changes" my point of view is if you don't like it then keep using dharma xbmc or find another skin than suits you well.
But if you want to know the thinking behind it
* the home screen was to give greater access to favourite add-ons and to un-hide the sub menus that many didn't even know were there
* The full screen playback info and OSD's was to minimize the look and clean it up
* All the view were changed to have the same style layout (in a panel and all lists on the left) before that it was just a jumble of all different styles and switching between full screen and paneled and looked inconsistent
* the side menu in the media windows was the same as home Get rid of all the hidden options in "Misc Options" and put them in the main list as well as add a proper tab with an arrow on it so people could tell there is something there
BTW last I checked the dharma version of the skin should run fine because jmarshall added backwards compatibility stuff you just miss out on all the new stuff and onestly you can't have all the new stuff and still expect to keep the old
- JabberwockPL - 2011-07-28
Personally, I do not mind the changes at all! I am an early adopter, too. Ironically, I have downloaded the nightly to check out a new feature/bug squash I have proposed myself... And I do believe that some of the changes are for the better - I truly appreciate the effort put into it. Still, being forced to adopt all of them (e.g. my wife had to squint to read the titles in thumbnail view - the ten-foot experience suddenly became five-foot) does not feel too comfortable.
It is important to realize that adopting some changes in the underlying system might be technically necessary (e.g. a new format comes out, compatibility to new devices is added, bugs are squashed, etc.). This should not require, however, need to relearn/readjust to the interface itself - this should stay the same as long as it is technically possible.
That is why I believe that the default skin should be the same between the versions. If there are new ideas concerning the interface, they can always be put into a new iteration, right? After all, the very idea of skinning is that those who want more eye-candy can try out various things without disrupting the experience for the mainstream users. Unless you assume that all users are geeks... I mean change embracers.
- jmarshall - 2011-07-28
Quote:Still, being forced to adopt all of them (e.g. my wife had to squint to read the titles in thumbnail view - the ten-foot experience suddenly became five-foot) does not feel too comfortable.
Then don't force her to adopt them - I'm completely sure your wife blames you, not us
Cheers,
Jonathan