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+---- Thread: [solved] Eden Audio Quality (/showthread.php?tid=126165)
RE: Eden Audio Quality - davilla - 2012-04-23
not sure what to say, sounds fine to me and seems to matches that of itunes. next step would be to break out the o'scope and fft the bitch to see exactly what's going on.
RE: Eden Audio Quality - Zokkel - 2012-04-23
(2012-04-20, 18:46)spiff Wrote: @Zokkel there are approximately 3 guys working on the osx and ios ports, and a gazillion of users like you. it's only logical that those 3 people will miss some stuff. they do their best, but they are still only 3 people, and they rather spend their time developing than testing. the gazillions should do the testing, it's only logical.
thus we can easily turn this around and blame you! it's all your fault for not reporting it!!!11 not fair eh? that's right, it wouldn't be. and the other way around is even more unfair. the devs who focus on osx and who put all their hard work into xbmc, do not deserve random non-contribution guys to tell them they do not focus on output quality due to some bug slipping in. it's statements like yours that makes me wonder why we don't just quit doing this thing all together.
Really don't want to argue with you, cause you're probably god damn right. But if you let me, I will clarify my frustration:
I am one hell of great fan of XBMC! I found it a year ago trough the internet (had PLEX before, but that took ages to load en build up the library for me) and was fan from the first minute. The thing is, Dharma was that good for me, so my expectations for EDEN were sky high
When Eden came, I couldn't be more exited, finally could use the aeon skin on a stable release (which I'm also a great fan of
). I was just smacked to the ground when I played my music and it sounded... well... just awful... Went looking for a solution, came to this thread and when nothing came up and two developers stated that the problem probably would not be solved till the next release... I was just a bit disappointed (not in someone particularly, but just in general) (It's normal when you're disappointed if a boy’s toy is broken 
).So, if I offended anyone: please accept my apology! Really, that was not my intend. Sometimes it's difficult to put the right emotion in a text (certainly if English is not your native language).
I really love your work and would really like you to continue with it!
(2012-04-22, 16:03)davilla Wrote: ok, I'm getting bored with this, you have my attention and no one is testing. One more day then I'm moving on to other things and this issue goes to the bottom of the pile.
Sorry, have a baby-boy (5 weeks old) that requires a lot of attention...
But: I put the limiter settings to 0 because I thought that would put the limiter off. I don't know if it did, but that works for me... IF... you put the volume back to -24db, because at 0db, I get a lot of clipping/distortion. If I find the time tonight, I will record three samples, with and without limiter to 0 and played on itunes.
(2012-04-22, 18:27)t-amat Wrote: Generally I would propose to generally deactivate any post effects, since there have been already a lot of effects applied to the source. _If_ someone needs now a limiter to watch movies in the night he can activate that on his own, but the general user should be able to expect an unaltered experience.
Then a question:
Is there a way to put the limiter ON for video and OFF for music? cause it seems to affect all audio. And I must say: I think it's heaven for video, but hell for music.
And since the problem first appeared in RC1 and was not in Beta3, is there a way for us noobs to help you search what has changed in the audio department between those two builds?
RE: Eden Audio Quality - Memphiz - 2012-04-23
(2012-04-23, 03:07)davilla Wrote: not sure what to say, sounds fine to me and seems to matches that of itunes. next step would be to break out the o'scope and fft the bitch to see exactly what's going on.
Here we go davilla. One of these commits between b3 and rc1 should be the cause of this. *grrr* I allways felt like i should have reverted all this stuff before eden release. But at that time i just felt to minor
.https://github.com/xbmc/xbmc/commit/9fbc7bb111ea084063db4a9cfeeccc6a9dabb04a
this one messes with downmixing and therefore channel volumes - not sure if it is applicable for music.
https://github.com/xbmc/xbmc/commit/8e89949547ea15b7d19f6b9439768bd7898ce9ee
https://github.com/xbmc/xbmc/commit/8250f5af4af82833b40c4deeef5435f2c1c6dc5f
https://github.com/xbmc/xbmc/commit/32c2695dedeefa1378fcf942fcf0f90506eb7df2
https://github.com/xbmc/xbmc/commit/330ac5b625ed1f177b875c5a51cc0c80ebf75725
https://github.com/xbmc/xbmc/commit/d29575755d23d4ca807df1c9ba89c051e0e8f2d0
RE: Eden Audio Quality - DiGiTYZED - 2012-04-23
I too love XBMC and appreciate the work the developers have done. I do understand that the developers are volunteering their time for XBMC, but regardless XBMC is essentially an end user product which will bring impatience, unrealistic expectations and everything in between. This won't change, this is the nature of the beast. Whether XBMC is for profit or not, this will always be the case, this will always be a user's market. Jumping into the cage without the proper resources or expecting a utopian beast is surely a waste of time. It's best to know what you're getting into, manage your expectations or just let the next challenger have his/her shot.
I know this sounds like I'm attacking the developers, but it's simply an observation of this and similar scenes that have the user and volunteer developer relationship. I've been using XBMC since the XBMP and YAMP days (almost 10 years now), so I have seen more "I'm disappointed" rants than I care to remember.
RE: Eden Audio Quality - davilla - 2012-04-23
I need to know exactly how people have their xbmc setup, guisettings.xml and advancedsettings.xml. There are too many places to alter audio settings so looking at these two files will tell me that information.
The commit changing downmixing fractions is suspect BUT the new (current) is more correct I think. Have to consult with our various audio experts.
RE: Eden Audio Quality - t-amat - 2012-04-23
(2012-04-23, 11:11)DiGiTYZED Wrote: I too love XBMC and appreciate the work the developers have done. I do understand that the developers are volunteering their time for XBMC, but regardless XBMC is essentially an end user product which will bring impatience, unrealistic expectations and everything in between.[...]
I agree. And since it has developed to a beast which can handle a lot of things (which I really like and appreciate) it's getting complicated to trace bugs. I guess from a naive point of view (correct me if I'm wrong), that the users of XBMC seperate into two distinct groups: Users who love music and are to some extent audiophile and users who love movies and have a home cinema setup. Both groups have completely different needs and expectations and the last group should be the larger one, hence have "more" support (please don't take this "more" too serious)
If someone knows a possibility to share the test songs I have without signing up to another service (like dropbox) I would appreciate this. I'm willing to help as far as I can in tracking this bug. This evening I will try the test song posted by toiva with my setup.
RE: Eden Audio Quality - DiGiTYZED - 2012-04-23
You don't have to sign up for Dropbox to download the test songs.
RE: Eden Audio Quality - Zokkel - 2012-04-23
(2012-04-23, 12:27)t-amat Wrote: If someone knows a possibility to share the test songs I have without signing up to another service (like dropbox) I would appreciate this. I'm willing to help as far as I can in tracking this bug. This evening I will try the test song posted by toiva with my setup.
(2012-04-23, 13:00)DiGiTYZED Wrote: You don't have to sign up for Dropbox to download the test songs.
I think he's talking about uploading...
Soundcloud.com has a very mild and easy sign-up (I know still sign up, but it's very simple, like: username, password and confirm)
RE: Eden Audio Quality - User 34959 - 2012-04-23
Actually my sample songs are not even the best ones, you never know in which songs you'll really hear the difference.
Here are my xml's
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6561811/advancedsettings.xml
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6561811/guisettings.xml
Audio midi set to 2ch/16bit/48khz
Amp set to 2ch stereo with 150hz crossover to sub.
RE: Eden Audio Quality - User 34959 - 2012-04-23
I captured the same song while playing it in Finder (upper) and XBMC (lower), and this is the result. But to be honest i'm not sure what i captured, i simple pressed the record button
RE: Eden Audio Quality - DyStiC - 2012-04-23
Just wanted to add i also have this problem, since Eden final (on OSX 10.6.8).
Music (MP3) sounds flat, when playing the same file in iTunes it sound good /dynamic.
Played around with all the audio settings in XBMC but nothing changed. Audio thru optical out.
What can i do to help you guys solve this problem?
RE: Eden Audio Quality - t-amat - 2012-04-23
I just tried the first song posted by toiva and I have to admit that I can barely hear the effect. Sometimes I believe I can hear it but it immediately vanishes (damn brain). But that fits with my finding that there are songs where you cannot hear this effect ( I don't question that toiva notices this effect, though
)So here's another test file
http://www.2shared.com/audio/2pSqcEyG/compressorxbmc.html
You should be able to hear this effect as soon as the bass starts after a few seconds. The volume gets periodically reduced and recovers quite noticable. Especially when the voice starts.
The screenshots by toiva illustrate quite instructive what happens. The sharp transients around 4.0 to 5.0s(?) are fully flattened out. Before the transient the signal is amplified (due to the release of the limiter I guess) and the peak itself is limited.
I noticed something like a breathing in my test file.
RE: Eden Audio Quality - davilla - 2012-04-23
@toiva what app was used to capture the audio ?
RE: Eden Audio Quality - t-amat - 2012-04-24
looks like audacity
I found two more songs which, in my ears, show this effect quite strong.
RE: Eden Audio Quality - davilla - 2012-04-24
My xbmc (mainline) looks identical to that of the finder.