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Port XBMC to PS3 (PlayStation 3) to run on Linux ("Other OS") or natively on GameOS? - Printable Version

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- XxRaVeNxX - 2011-01-21 18:12

Quote:It seems that at the time of release no one was really interested in an xbmc port for the ps3, I released a proof of concept vid, showing that the ps3 (at the time via otheros) was capable of running it, and asked for help with porting it fully.

I asked the xbmc dev team and got told they basically couldnt be bothered. (if you ask me, I think the ps3 is too steep a learning curve for them even though nearly all info is publically available now). I recently moved the xbmc-ps3.net site to a new server, its not up atm, but will be back up asap, if you'd like to keep an eye on the project.

There were at the time no legal issues that would of stopped a port from happening. Otheros was completely legal to use, and xbmc is an open source project. They're comments as such were nothing but an excuse.

Hopefully we'll see a port in the near future, but honestly, I wouldnt hold your breath.

Edit: GregoryRasputin is correct in saying im working on the project still, I am aiming for a minimal install atm on the xmb, but due to issues with the current releases of xbmc, I am unable to compile it succesfully. (xbmc.bin isnt being compiled properly, and at 3 hours a compile, im holding out for an updated version.)

This is a quote from madshaun1984, squarepusher, I'm pretty sure you know who this is or how to contact him...


- topfs2 - 2011-01-21 18:32

XBMC is Dead Wrote:How sad all them years i've held XBMC bench mark. All the support and now just another product.

Well thanks for many years of hard work. I mean that really.

Phil

So whats the next standardConfused

Huh? XBMC is still free and have all the same standards. We have NEVER released illegal binaries and never will.

No dev currently think PS3 is a worthwile endevour because all it would end up with would be all the annoyances we had with on xbox, it is not due to companies (even if you may interpret my statement like that). As I said, if you want it, you can do it. If all you can do is register on a forum to troll and complain, please go away. All you will do is make this thread locked. What people fail to see is that its most likely hundreds if not thousands hours of work to port it or make it run nicely. If someone is up for the task, please, be our guest. We will help you as much as we can. If you dont want to spend that time, stop complaining.


- squarepusher - 2011-01-21 18:43

So let me get this straight - an iPad/iPhone is worthy hardware to release XBMC on, but PS3 isn't? Is this some kind of a joke?

I'm reading some newssites right now that report on this news that XBMC has been ported to an iPad/iPhone. Know what's a constant response in those threads?

'I would rather like to see an Xbox 360/PS3 port'. 'If an iPad can do it, then why can't a PS3?'. That's the constant mantra, and I can't say I can disagree with them. The excuses are becoming thinner by the day.

BTW, just so you know, Sony has no case against Geohot, and he never did anything 'illegal' to begin with. In fact, what they tried to do there was so outrageous that a Carnegie Mellon professor decided to host a mirror of his site with the private keys on there just as a matter of protest. The corporate press releases are definitely the ones that are spinning this to be sure.


- XxRaVeNxX - 2011-01-21 18:55

topfs2 Wrote:No dev currently think PS3 is a worthwile endevour because all it would end up with would be all the annoyances we had with on xbox, it is not due to companies (even if you may interpret my statement like that).

I had to jump in the middle of you two, real quick. But, let me get this straight, you guys regret the Xbox port for the XBMC. Those releases was a huge PR push for you guys as a company as a whole, and it was being exposed to masses who would have never known about the work that you/company/dev's do.


- topfs2 - 2011-01-21 19:03

XxRaVeNxX Wrote:I had to jump in the middle of you two, real quick. But, let me get this straight, you guys regret the Xbox port for the XBMC. Those releases was a huge PR push for you guys as a company as a whole, and it was being exposed to masses who would have never known about the work that you/company/dev's do.

When did I ever said we regret it? please read it again. I said it was annoying, which is true. And we are not a company.


squarepusher Wrote:So let me get this straight - an iPad/iPhone is worthy hardware to release XBMC on, but PS3 isn't? Is this some kind of a joke?

I'm reading some newssites right now that report on this news that XBMC has been ported to an iPad/iPhone. Know what's a constant response in those threads?

'I would rather like to see an Xbox 360/PS3 port'. 'If an iPad can do it, then why can't a PS3?'. That's the constant mantra, and I can't say I can disagree with them. The excuses are becoming thinner by the day.

BTW, just so you know, Sony has no case against Geohot, and he never did anything 'illegal' to begin with. In fact, what they tried to do there was so outrageous that a Carnegie Mellon professor decided to host a mirror of his site with the private keys on there just as a matter of protest. The corporate press releases are definitely the ones that are spinning this to be sure.

ATV2 was done by davilla and a few others, it was not a team decision. The same could be done for PS3. What we are saying is not that we don't want to see a port but that no dev is interested in making one, which means someone else has to step up and do it.

And I said that despite who has the case, the person doing the port may end up fighting with sony, despite who has the rights on his side, thats something to consider.

Feels like you are reading out all I say wrong, and interpret it all extremely negative. All I am saying is that no dev currently on the team is interested in doing it, if you want it you need to do it yourself. We will gladly help any endevour by answering questions and if the patches are good, we will pull them. This is the beauty of GPL and FLOSS.


- darkscout - 2011-01-21 19:15

topfs2 Wrote:ATV2 was done by davilla and a few others, it was not a team decision. The same could be done for PS3. What we are saying is not that we don't want to see a port but that no dev is interested in making one, which means someone else has to step up and do it.

I think the ATV, ATV2, CrystalHD are "case in point" of "If you want it, you code it."

Everyone wants a PS3 port, no one is willing to do the work. Then they complain that no one wants to do the work.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the OS X and Windows ports start out the same way? (Or was it OS X and Linux). The *first* non XBMC build, I tried it out. Buggy as all heck, only worked on a very specific Ubuntu. Compiling it was a nightmare. Then someone did an initial Windows and then an initial OS X port.


- topfs2 - 2011-01-21 19:49

darkscout Wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the OS X and Windows ports start out the same way? (Or was it OS X and Linux). The *first* non XBMC build, I tried it out. Buggy as all heck, only worked on a very specific Ubuntu. Compiling it was a nightmare. Then someone did an initial Windows and then an initial OS X port.

Linux, OSX and Windows all started out the same way. Some dev started and when that was available others joined and it became a viable port.

I joined when linux began because then it was interesting for me (have never owned a xbox).


- squarepusher - 2011-01-21 23:14

topfs2 Wrote:And if you would have read my previous posts I have said that playback may be possible since there exist SPU accelerated players. So this is not news. As stated multiple times in this thread, playback is not the problem.

As far as I know, those SPU patches for Mplayer/ffmpeg only offloaded some of the things to the SPUs such as YUV-to-RGB conversion.

On PS3 GameOS, we don't even have to bother with that - we can just use Cg shaders (such as we're doing already) to do the YUV-to-RGB conversion for us (to give the PPU some breathing time). So we don't need the SPEs for that. What is needed, however, is a fast SPE H264 decoder.

I did not see a patch so far for ffmpeg/Mplayer that featured an SPE H264 decoder. All of the SPE-based decoders so far never seem to have left the universities it seems.

There are a lot of papers like these -

http://www.aes.tu-berlin.de/fileadmin/fg196/thesis/bachelor/H264-Entropy-1.pdf

but there seems to be no real implementation available on the Internet up for easy grabs or testing.

There are also hardware PCI cards out there based on the Cell processor that allow for 'faster than realtime H264 transcoding'.

http://www.legitreviews.com/article/1134/1/

So it's only a matter of technical expertise and ability, not hardware, that is holding us back here. The PS3 can certainly handle H264 at fullspeed. But trying to have the PPU to do it is like (some developer said) trying to run a PS2 game on the IOP processor (the IOP was the PS1-on-a-chip - the PPU was simply underpowered for a good reason - it was never meant to be used as anything other than an SPE traffic officer)

As it is, our Slimplayer has kinda hit a stumbling block because releasing something that runs H264 this badly is kinda pointless.


- djdafreund - 2011-01-22 05:34

Guys, arguing and debating with the XBMC developer's isn't going to get you far. They know what they are talking about, and like he said, if you know what your talking about and can start making patches to make this happen, they are more then happy to include them.


- XxRaVeNxX - 2011-01-22 22:34

djdafreund Wrote:Guys, arguing and debating with the XBMC developer's isn't going to get you far. They know what they are talking about, and like he said, if you know what your talking about and can start making patches to make this happen, they are more then happy to include them.

None of what you said contributed to squarepusher's well-thought out reply.
Majority of which probably went over your head. You have nothing insightful to contribute, just go instigate somewhere else..


- teaguecl - 2011-01-22 22:57

XxRaVeNxX Wrote:None of what you said contributed to squarepusher's well-thought out reply.
Majority of which probably went over your head. You have nothing insightful to contribute, just go instigate somewhere else..

There's nothing substantial in this whole thread, including you're very valuable contribution. I'm shocked we're still talking about this...


- 10nisman94 - 2011-01-23 01:21

squarepusher Wrote:As far as I know, those SPU patches for Mplayer/ffmpeg only offloaded some of the things to the SPUs such as YUV-to-RGB conversion.

On PS3 GameOS, we don't even have to bother with that - we can just use Cg shaders (such as we're doing already) to do the YUV-to-RGB conversion for us (to give the PPU some breathing time). So we don't need the SPEs for that. What is needed, however, is a fast SPE H264 decoder.

I did not see a patch so far for ffmpeg/Mplayer that featured an SPE H264 decoder. All of the SPE-based decoders so far never seem to have left the universities it seems.

There are a lot of papers like these -

http://www.aes.tu-berlin.de/fileadmin/fg196/thesis/bachelor/H264-Entropy-1.pdf

but there seems to be no real implementation available on the Internet up for easy grabs or testing.

There are also hardware PCI cards out there based on the Cell processor that allow for 'faster than realtime H264 transcoding'.

http://www.legitreviews.com/article/1134/1/

So it's only a matter of technical expertise and ability, not hardware, that is holding us back here. The PS3 can certainly handle H264 at fullspeed. But trying to have the PPU to do it is like (some developer said) trying to run a PS2 game on the IOP processor (the IOP was the PS1-on-a-chip - the PPU was simply underpowered for a good reason - it was never meant to be used as anything other than an SPE traffic officer)

As it is, our Slimplayer has kinda hit a stumbling block because releasing something that runs H264 this badly is kinda pointless.

Does the PS3 not have an integrated SPE level decoder for H.264? (For playing blu rays and streamed media) Instead of attempting to port ffmpeg, would attempting to hook into the existing decoder built into GameOS be possible? (the api is obviously not public, so a bit of fuzzing and/or decompiling would probably be necessary to find the hooks, the netflix and vudu apps would be less likely to have these calls obfuscated)

The source code for the Codecsys ps3 h.264 encoder is here.
http://codec.fixstars.com/en/support/personal/source.html

If decoding is done on the PS3 (prior to the encoding) these source files would likely include an SPU accelerated H.264 decoder. If the decode is handled by the "controlling/client" computer, these source files would likely be useless.


- 8maddog8 - 2011-01-25 03:16

If someone was able to get this working for the PS3 it would be awesome and i would happily donate a couple of hundred, because i have absolutely no idea about programming


- NineT9mustang - 2011-01-26 05:14

8maddog8 Wrote:If someone was able to get this working for the PS3 it would be awesome and i would happily donate a couple of hundred, because i have absolutely no idea about programming

$200 from him ^
$200 from me

That's $400 for this project Smile I'm sure there's others who would donate as well, so hopefully someone takes interest... Depending on certain circumstances, I'd donate even more


- spicemuseum - 2011-02-03 22:46

NineT9mustang Wrote:$200 from him ^
$200 from me

That's $400 for this project Smile I'm sure there's others who would donate as well, so hopefully someone takes interest... Depending on certain circumstances, I'd donate even more
Yep, I'd happily chuck in a few quid too.