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+--- Thread: Port XBMC to PS3 (PlayStation 3) to run on Linux ("Other OS") or natively on GameOS? (/showthread.php?tid=21849)
- embrion - 2008-01-06
I'm wondering what about Swap Magic way. Some PS2 Homebrew can be used that way at PS3
- BLKMGK - 2008-01-06
GPL code is NOT viral! Not in the sense that allowing it to be used in that manner wold mean they would be required to give up anything "special". The GPL3 might interfere what with the TIVOization stuff but GPL2 might fly. In any case - this is the "path" that the old XBMC took - is that really a path anyone would want to do again?! Able to get code, see code, modify code, but not compile it without breaking licenses? I sure hope not - buy X86 hardware and run it on Linux, it's not THAT expensive for the power you would get.
- Gamester17 - 2008-01-09
FYI; looks like the developers over at forums.ps2dev.org are making progress with their libps3rsx API library for low-level access to hardware acceleration.
I posted a few questions about XBMC in the topic thread about the low-level libps3rsx API library:
http://forums.ps2dev.org/viewtopic.php?t=8364&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=390&sid=8314c0c2989e25db16e73e7b2cb6270f
...however as I'm not a programmer myself I think I did not manage to make them understand me (and I did not understand them for that matter).
- buzzqw - 2008-01-09
anyone know this sites
http://cell.fixstars.com/ps3linux/index.php
http://ctk-dev.sourceforge.net/
could be useful ?
BHH
- Soulfly - 2008-01-10
WOW. This sounds very promising especially with Gamester17 active in the thread and the PS3 forum.
wHack Wrote:Like scaling and alphablended overlays, and the other normar gui stuff. Some of which would require more work for instance de-interlacing. And colorspace conversion but these guys have already talked about including some colorspace conversion and mentioned it's not to dificult to code.
All video-related conversions and interpolations should be what the SPE's eat for breakfast and as already said, all of this is already happening in upstream components.
And for the GUI part: i've seen several real-time ray-reace videos for the PS3 (Here's one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEg7q2lk3QM&feature=related )
So there's definitely enough power for the GUI even without the RSX. Couldn't we abstract the GUI in a high-level API (if it's not already exist) and just drop the OpenGL stuff to a back-end using this API.
Then we can always "hope" that some of those good demo coders will give the cell a real challenge around that API. A version without the RSX at this point would be preferred, and as a start, we could "just" blit characters to a frame-buffer.
- embrion - 2008-01-10
As far as I know, the bigger problem than GUI is lack of Cell optimized codecs for things like h/x264 (not to mention that at PS3, only PPU is used for that). Ther are some works in progress but nothing mature enough (I'm just telling what I read at ps2dev).
Sure I'd prefere to buy PS3 instead of building another PC.
Please do not get your hopes up just yet... - Gamester17 - 2008-01-10
Soulfly Wrote:WOW. This sounds very promising especially with Gamester17 active in the thread and the PS3 forum.No, not really, not yet at least. I only asked a few questions for my own personal interest try to get a better understanding of what would be needed from both sides, but I do not think I am any the wiser from the answers that I got. (I do not think I asked the right questions, probably because I am not a programmer/developer myself). Also, one again to clearify, no programmer/developer from Team-XBMC (or elseware) has volunteered to activly look at the PS3 as a potential XBMC platform, nor to take on the huge project that this would mean.
...and as far as I know, no one on Team-XBMC even owns a Sony PlayStation 3 game-console.
Soulfly Wrote:So there's definitely enough power for the GUI even without the RSX.No, there is not! Why that is has already been explained many times previously by Team-XBMC developers in this very topic thread, (please read through the whole thread before commenting). XBMC for PS3 Linux will not happen unless XBMC can use the PS3 GPU (PS3 RSX) for hardware accelerated rendering.
Soulfly Wrote:Couldn't we abstract the GUI in a high-level API (if it's not already exist) and just drop the OpenGL stuff to a back-end using this API.Nothing is impossible BUT there is big problem finding an interested and willing developer that owns a PlayStation 3 and is skilled enough to take on such a HUGE task, that is implementing a low-lever API in SDL for the PS3 GPU (PS3 RSX) to replace OpenGL in SDL (Simple DirectMedia Layer, the hardware layer API framework that XBMC for Linux uses).
embrion Wrote:As far as I know, the bigger problem than GUI is lack of Cell optimized codecs for things like h/x264 (not to mention that at PS3, only PPU is used for that). Ther are some works in progress but nothing mature enough (I'm just telling what I read at ps2dev).That is probably the smallest problem of the hurdles to cross, and it is out of our hands anyway, (The FFmpeg Project deals with that part).
- embrion - 2008-01-10
Gamester17 Wrote:That is probably the smallest problem of the hurdles to cross, and it is out of our hands anyway, (The FFmpeg Project deals with that part).
Yeah, I know we depend on FFmpeg as well as PS3 project MegaBox depends on MPlayer (is it is Freevo based)
Again, ppl involved in getting RSX power say that the main problem is lack of optimized codecs (and high level API when we speak about XBMC port, because they already got about 70% RSX power in case of pre 2.1 firmware)
Currently I asked and I'm waiting for someone at PS3Hax who uses MegaBox beta to tell how well it plays my 35Mbps sample. Probably it will be as bad as pure MPlayer like ppl reported me (unless MegaBox devs got optimized codecs, but I believe they don't)
- Soulfly - 2008-01-11
Gamester17 Wrote:No, there is not! Why that is has already been explained many times previously by Team-XBMC developers in this very topic thread, (please read through the whole thread before commenting). XBMC for PS3 Linux will not happen unless XBMC can use the PS3 GPU (PS3 RSX) for hardware accelerated rendering.
It's very obvious that you're not a programmer. As a programmer and former demo-coder (in the past), let me assure you that the current GUI in XBMC is no match for the cell-processor, even at 1080p.
Gamester17 Wrote:Nothing is impossible BUT there is big problem finding an interested and willing developer that owns a PlayStation 3 and is skilled enough to take on such a HUGE task, that is implementing a low-lever API in SDL for the PS3 GPU (PS3 RSX) to replace OpenGL in SDL (Simple DirectMedia Layer, the hardware layer API framework that XBMC for Linux uses).
I agree. Lack of developers is a show-stopper. As for the huge tasks, there could be "fast-tracks" through Framebuffer/XV instead of OpenGL/SDL wrt to simplicity and reuse of components from other projects.
- pike - 2008-01-11
What most people are missing:
Yes, it was an interresting ride with modding Xboxes so they could run fun software like XBMC.
No, it wasn't fun to depend on a closed SDK like Xbox version always has and always will (unless someone "port" it to OpenXDK in 10 years (not us!))
I don't own a PS3, but I understand it can run something they call 'Alternative OS' like Yellow Dog Linux, with "Nutered" hardware support. Sony can at any time make the 'Alternative OS' option even more nutered. Only thing that can enable better hardware support is hacking the damn machine, I'm sure Sony aren't too fond of this (even if it is their own fault!).
And we're almost back at square one... I never saw Xbox360 nor PS3 as viable platforms.
I want XBMC to be as LEGIT as it can be. I'm quite sure most if not all of Team XBMC agrees with this.
This doesn't stop some other team from taking our sourcecode and porting it, you are most welcome as long as you abide by GPL.
I don't see a future in "Closed Platforms".
(these have just been some ramblings by me - just before bed)
Too early IMHO - d4rk - 2008-01-11
Soulfly Wrote:It's very obvious that you're not a programmer. As a programmer and former demo-coder (in the past), let me assure you that the current GUI in XBMC is no match for the cell-processor, even at 1080p.
Currently there is no suitable 3D graphics API on the PS3 that takes advantage of the Cell. Software OpenGL is out of question because it will perform marginally better than SDL 2D does currently. XBMC's skinning engine currently uses 3D internally and some skins take advantage of it. How taxing it is on the GPU also depends on the skin. Skins with lots of animations and alpha blending can give some GPUs a run for their money. There is no point doing a port that runs half assedly.
The other factor (in my mind), is libps3rsx. The authors claim that the technique they are using to access the GPU on PS3 FW < 2.10 is not actually a hack but an undocumented legit way to pass commands to the GPU. They state that blocking this completely will result in Linux being unusable on the PS3. If this is the case, then there's reason to believe that libps3rsx can be made to work on FW 2.10+. libps3rsx might eventually be an API that could be a feasible replacement to OpenGL. At that point, the SPEs could actually be used for something worthwhile rather than just blitting to screen.
Quote:I agree. Lack of developers is a show-stopper. As for the huge tasks, there could be "fast-tracks" through Framebuffer/XV instead of OpenGL/SDL wrt to simplicity and reuse of components from other projects.Using XV instead of GL in the current Linuxport is anything but a fast-track. Moreover there will be major tradeoffs in terms of UI if overlays were used instead of a GL context. Framebuffer blitting is feasible but would perform as bad as the SDL 2D build does currently and again will result in loss of functionality until portions of the skin engine that rely on the underlying 3D API get ported to use to CPU/SPE.
All in all, IMHO, it's too early to start a port. Once libps3rsx is more mature and works on newer firmwares, then it will be interesting to take a look and give it a shot.
- Gamester17 - 2008-01-14
Anyone wanting to look at the PS3 might want to try out FATE (FFmpeg Automated Testing Environment) for testing audio/video decoding and playback on the PS3. See:
FATE - FFmpeg Automated Testing Environment (powerpc / Linux)
http://fate.multimedia.cx
x86_32 / Linux version of FATE is also available for comparison.
- ashlar - 2008-01-16
pike Wrote:I want XBMC to be as LEGIT as it can be. I'm quite sure most if not all of Team XBMC agrees with this.And you have every right to.
I always mantained that the need for a PC version of your software was for it to have the recognition it deserves on a legit level.
One can only question the time needed to come to this, but it's adamant for me that this is the right decision you have taken.
- rodalpho - 2008-01-16
I couldn't agree more. Most sites wouldn't even talk about XBMC/xbox. They couldn't offer a download link due to its dubious legality.
Now if someone writes an opengl library for the PS3 accessible through linux, that would be pretty cool. But really I predict the ideal platform for XBMC in 2009 being the next-gen mac mini. Only question is whether it'll be running OSX or linux.
Two PS3 Linux Performance Tweaks - HitecDevil - 2008-01-21
hey guys
i dont know if this is useful but for all linux crackers out there just a lilttle idea...maybe even useful for xbmc...
Link1 Link2