[davilla]

Uncompressed 1080p Blu-ray rips ? All 1080p video is compressed one way or another.

Bluray comes in one of three formats, mpeg2, vc1 and h264. The ATV2 can do hardware decoded h264. It will stutter badly with HD mpeg2 or vc1 because it has to use software decode (ffmpeg) and it just does not have the CPU to do that.

XBMC's internal NFSClient is much faster than the SMBClient but if you are using wifi and it's crappy, nothing will help.

1080p Output is not possible and even if someone figure out how to do it, the ATV2 just does not have the memory bandwidth to support 1080p decode AND 1080p display output.

[Scott R]

davilla,

Thanks for your reply. By "uncompressed 1080p Blu-ray rips" (which I also sometimes refer to as raw 1080p Blu-ray rips), I simply mean Blu-ray discs that are ripped without doing any *further* compression. More specifically, I'm ripping them with MakeMKV into an MKV file. As opposed to what I might call "compressed" 1080p Blu-ray rips, which would be running them through another encode (e.g., Handbrake) to further compress them down in size.

What about subtitles? Should we ever expect to be able to play these raw 1080p MKV files with subtitles smoothly? My experience with that so far has not been good, but I'm not sure if that's just lower on your priority list (but believed to be possible), won't ever be possible due to hardware limitations, or perhaps it's even already possible but there are certain guidelines required to make it work (e.g., converting the subtitle data from one format to another and remuxing it into the MKV file)?

Thanks also for your thoughts on whether 1080p output could ever be possible with the 2G hardware. There are rumors of updated aTV hardware using the A5 chip and Apple offering 1080p movies on iTunes, but I'm somewhat skeptical of that, simply because the 2G hardware is still relatively new and download speeds are a bottleneck for many people (and I believe there was/is something especially bad about downloading from Apple's servers, as I tried a couple of 720p rentals in the past using my Comcast cable modem service and got excessive download time estimates, whereas renting HD movies from Amazon via my TiVo HD produced much faster times). Given Apple's reputation of caring more about the end-user experience than they do about having the best "spec", I'm not holding my breath for an aTV this year that can output 1080p, but I'd be happy to be wrong.

All that said, my desire is to rip my movies using MakeMKV, watch them the first time that way (for those movies which the aTV/XBMC can handle), but then compress the movie down to a smaller filesize (while trying to keep PQ as high as possible). I'm torn between compressing it down to a 720p mp4/m4v file which can play on any stock aTV 2G, or compressing it down to a 1080p mp4/m4v file. Does anyone know if there are any guidelines (or even a standard setting) with the latest version of Handbrake which can produce a 1080p mp4/m4v file which will play on a stock aTV 2G? My experience with experimenting with that shortly after the aTV 2G was released was that I could produce a 1080p file which would *technically* play on the aTV 2G, but would not play smoothly.

Lastly, sorry for the noob question, but am I right to assume that utilizing NFS requires having my file server be operating under Linux? Right now I'm using an Acer Revo w/Windows XP as my file server. I also have an Acer Revo w/Windows 7 that I could use for that purpose, if there were advantages to doing so. If there are real advantages to using Linux/NFS on my Revo, I'd be willing to do so, but right now it seems like my raw 1080p MKV files (aTV 2G's hardwired via ethernet) either play fine or don't and when they don't it seems to be more to do with the presence of subtitles or because the video is HD mpeg2 or vc1. Do you believe that SMB performance is currently a bottleneck that would effect reliably streaming raw 1080p MKV movies and, if so, is SMB performance expected to be improved in future builds?

[davilla]

davilla,

Thanks for your reply. By "uncompressed 1080p Blu-ray rips" (which I also sometimes refer to as raw 1080p Blu-ray rips), I simply mean Blu-ray discs that are ripped without doing any *further* compression. More specifically, I'm ripping them with MakeMKV into an MKV file. As opposed to what I might call "compressed" 1080p Blu-ray rips, which would be running them through another encode (e.g., Handbrake) to further compress them down in size.

the correct term is transcode.

What about subtitles? Should we ever expect to be able to play these raw 1080p MKV files with subtitles smoothly? My experience with that so far has not been good, but I'm not sure if that's just lower on your priority list (but believed to be possible), won't ever be possible due to hardware limitations, or perhaps it's even already possible but there are certain guidelines required to make it work (e.g., converting the subtitle data from one format to another and remuxing it into the MKV file)?

subtiles is low on my priority, I don't use them. if you watch trunk commits, you will notice some recent work on them

Thanks also for your thoughts on whether 1080p output could ever be possible with the 2G hardware. There are rumors of updated aTV hardware using the A5 chip and Apple offering 1080p movies on iTunes, but I'm somewhat skeptical of that, simply because the 2G hardware is still relatively new and download speeds are a bottleneck for many people (and I believe there was/is something especially bad about downloading from Apple's servers, as I tried a couple of 720p rentals in the past using my Comcast cable modem service and got excessive download time estimates, whereas renting HD movies from Amazon via my TiVo HD produced much faster times). Given Apple's reputation of caring more about the end-user experience than they do about having the best "spec", I'm not holding my breath for an aTV this year that can output 1080p, but I'd be happy to be wrong.

A4 does not have the bandwidth, A5 does.

All that said, my desire is to rip my movies using MakeMKV, watch them the first time that way (for those movies which the aTV/XBMC can handle), but then compress the movie down to a smaller filesize (while trying to keep PQ as high as possible). I'm torn between compressing it down to a 720p mp4/m4v file which can play on any stock aTV 2G, or compressing it down to a 1080p mp4/m4v file. Does anyone know if there are any guidelines (or even a standard setting) with the latest version of Handbrake which can produce a 1080p mp4/m4v file which will play on a stock aTV 2G? My experience with experimenting with that shortly after the aTV 2G was released was that I could produce a 1080p file which would *technically* play on the aTV 2G, but would not play smoothly.

not compressing, transcoding them. xbmc under the A4 was no issues now with decoding 1080p h264 in proper encoder formats.

Lastly, sorry for the noob question, but am I right to assume that utilizing NFS requires having my file server be operating under Linux? Right now I'm using an Acer Revo w/Windows XP as my file server. I also have an Acer Revo w/Windows 7 that I could use for that purpose, if there were advantages to doing so. If there are real advantages to using Linux/NFS on my Revo, I'd be willing to do so, but right now it seems like my raw 1080p MKV files (aTV 2G's hardwired via ethernet) either play fine or don't and when they don't it seems to be more to do with the presence of subtitles or because the video is HD mpeg2 or vc1. Do you believe that SMB performance is currently a bottleneck that would effect reliably streaming raw 1080p MKV movies and, if so, is SMB performance expected to be improved in future builds?

SMBClient performance is a regression from previous, we don't know where, why or how to fix yet. NFSClient is faster than SMBClient. That's all we know right now.

[fekker]

I use two apple tv's, one wired, one wireless

The wireless one always studdered on 720p, and 1080p was buffering non stop. This was when it was running ios 4.1.1, since updating to 4.2.2, it's no longer a problem, no hardware was changed, just the ios version.

I had some issues with 1080p on the other one, but with the updated xbmc from an older nightly build to the latest official version (June 2011 I believe), turning off auto-thumbnail creation and disabling subtitles it plays nicely, but was still buffering alot. Updated the NIC drivers on the server and now it works leaps and bounds better.

So, to recap, totally worth it. Make sure your network is solid, try wired and wireless, update to ios 4.2.2 if needed and make sure you have updated xbmc and the drivers on the machine that hosts the file.

[Ned Scott]

subtiles is low on my priority, I don't use them.

Mental note: find a way to bribe Davillia and/or get him hooked on a foreign language TV show.

[Scott R]

the correct term is transcode.

Ah yes, I'm familiar with that term as well, but I believe my terminology better desribes (in a dumbed-down manner) what's actually going on. Uncompress/Raw = a Blu-ray movie ripped as-is. Compressed = smaller filesize at the cost of some quality.

subtiles is low on my priority, I don't use them. if you watch trunk commits, you will notice some recent work on them

Do you speak Na'vi? I don't make a habit of using subtitles either, unless it's a movie where I need the subtitles in order to know what they're saying (i.e., movies where forced subs come into play).

All kidding aside, thanks for all you do!

[davilla]

Ah yes, I'm familiar with that term as well, but I believe my terminology better desribes (in a dumbed-down manner) what's actually going on. Uncompress/Raw = a Blu-ray movie ripped as-is. Compressed = smaller filesize at the cost of some quality.

You are wrong You are transcoding the raw, bluray into another video encoding format. No compression going on here, simple transcoding. When you misuse the term compression, you do nothing but confuse new users.

[Scott R]

You are wrong You are transcoding the raw, bluray into another video encoding format. No compression going on here, simple transcoding. When you misuse the term compression, you do nothing but confuse new users.

It seems to me that we're arguing semantics, but I'll certainly defer to your expertise. My point was simply that the average person wouldn't know what transcoding means, but is familiar with the term compression, and when they think of compression they think of reduced filesize. A 25GB MKV Blu-ray file can be converted into a 4GB 1080p MP4 file by way of transcoding, and the result is a compressed (filesize) end result. So when I'm referring to compression I guess I'm really talking about the end result (a smaller filesize), which usually also results in a reduction in picture and/or sound quality, even if (when done well) the average person may not be able to discern a difference.

To that end, I would argue that if you tell someone that you're simply transcoding (changing from one format to another) a movie, it can give someone the false impression that there will be no impact to picture or sound quality, when usually there is. For example, if I use one of the various apps which run on a desktop PC and do on-the-fly video transcoding so as to let you stream your otherwise-incompatible movies to an XBox, PS3, or AppleTV (e.g., AirVideo), these apps are transcoding the video, and it is my understanding that with all of these apps, PQ will be degraded. But perhaps I'm mistaken there, too, since my only experience with these apps has been with my decidedly underpowered desktop PC. I just bought a new i7-2600 machine which I'm anxiously awaiting the delivery of and am interested to see how well AirVideo (for example) does at an on-the-fly transcoding of a 20GB+ MKV 1080p file to a format playable on the native aTV 2G.

Even if it did a great job, though, I don't think I'd want to use it for that purpose frequently as I'd be concerned about diminishing the life of that box and drawing so much wattage all the time. Instead, my plan is to use that new box to convert my Blu-rays into MP4's via Handbrake, and leave it turned off when it's not performing that duty. And even though terabytes of disk storage get cheaper and cheaper, my goal is to get these large files down to more manageable sizes. The fact that the aTV 2G hardware can handle most (non-subtitled) 1080p rips I throw at it is extremely impressive, but there are real advantages to having my movies in smaller filesizes playable by the native box (and iPhone 4 and iPad 2 I have in my household). For example, I'd rather not resort to jailbreaking those devices, and the smaller filesizes mean that I can reliably stream the movies over WiFi, making use of the native aTV's big-enough buffer (when dealing with a 4GB or smaller MP4 movie) to ensure that the movie plays without any hiccups.

[dieselboy27]

I have been using the Apple TV for 6 months now connected via Cat5 and 720p MKV plays flawlessly. Latest firmware and 10.0-9 build 1080p MKV plays perfect. Great media streaming box

[bertybassett]

My experience is 99% of my 720p content is fine and 98% of my 1080p content is fine after the first 5 seconds of watching when connected via Ethernet. However wireless is a joke connected 300Mb wireless N I can not get even the most basic 720p MKV to play stable. Good job I am on Ethernet over home-plug / power-line HD 200Mb (not sure of the correct name).

I am guessing choppy 3% of films is due to poorly encoded rips from the Internet (no I mean which I encoded from my own personal collection of blu-rays, honest).

If your 1080p stutters then leave it to play for a while and settle down and see what happens. Like others I thought at first that 1080p was not going to work but it does if left to settle down.

[Scott R]

davilla, any insight you can share on the priority of improving the SMB networking performance? I've got a Windows box serving as a fileshare with NTFS-formatted drives and a recent attempt at playing one of my recent Blu-ray rips (Rango) results in frequent pausing (every couple of minutes it seems). Everything is hooked up via Gigabit ethernet. There are no subtitles and it plays smoothly (when it's playing), but it stops/pauses very frequently. I'd rather not mess with Linux and reformat my drives in a Linux format, so I'm hoping there's some light at the end of the tunnel for us Windows users.

[unmesh]

davilla, any insight you can share on the priority of improving the SMB networking performance? I've got a Windows box serving as a fileshare with NTFS-formatted drives and a recent attempt at playing one of my recent Blu-ray rips (Rango) results in frequent pausing (every couple of minutes it seems). Everything is hooked up via Gigabit ethernet. There are no subtitles and it plays smoothly (when it's playing), but it stops/pauses very frequently. I'd rather not mess with Linux and reformat my drives in a Linux format, so I'm hoping there's some light at the end of the tunnel for us Windows users.

You should not have to reformat drives since there are NFS servers available for Windows, both free and commercial/paid versions.

[IsleOfMan]

I've been running XBMC on HTPCs around the house for about a year and a half. I have an Acer AX1301-U9052 as HTPC in the main theater (planning on eventually adding BD playback when I find a deal on a drive that's shallow enough). I have a cobbled together P4+8400GS in the living room and had a Revo AR3610 in the Master Bedroom.

I recently decided it was time to add XBMC to the kids' bedroom since they are watching more and more movies but also like to chew on DVD cases when they're able to get their hands on them. I picked up an ATV2 to test, expecting a weekend or at least a late evening worth of tinkering to get it working right. It took all of 10 minutes.

In terms of playback, 90% of the kids' movies are in SD or 720p, with a handful being 1080p. Playback has been excellent on all of the above. Initially I was connected over 802.11g and got some buffering on 1080p and occasionally on 720p. When I upgraded the network to 802.11n all playback has been buffer free. The one instance where playback has caused minor issue is with one particular problem file encoded in 720p AVC, but it will playback with either a pause/play or skip-forward/back. This file presented this anomaly regardless of network arrangement and only on the ATV2.

The ATV2 impressed me enough in the kids' room that I sold the Revo to a friend and used the funds to finance another ATV2 for the Master Bedroom, network upgrade, and plan on replacing the P4+8400GS HTPC in the living room as well. I'm so impressed I'm even considering replacing the AX1301-U9052 HTPC with the ATV2 as well, making ALL of my XBMC clients ATV2. Combined with the fact that my media is stored on a USB HDD connected to the network through my router's ReadyShare feature, I would have a house full of XBMC clients with ZERO dependence on any sort of PC, HTPC, or PC based server.

[RobertinoMUC]

FYI if SMB lacks on performance... and you want to run a NFS Server you just need to install
http://www.microsoft.com/download/en/det...=en&id=274

With them you can easyly run a NFS Server

there is a good german page for config... ..
http://www.open7x0.org/wiki/NFS-Server_unter_Windows

english
http://www.networkedmediatank.com/showth...p?tid=1434



regards robertino

[Scott R]

FYI if SMB lacks on performance... and you want to run a NFS Server you just need to install
http://www.microsoft.com/download/en/det...=en&id=274

With them you can easyly run a NFS Server

Thanks for the link. I'll definitely give that a look. Yesterday I installed Filezilla FTP Server on my Acer Revo (w/XP) and it had some pros/cons vs SMB. Specifically, the pausing issue disappeared. It would now play my test file (Rango Blu-ray ripped as MKV) without any pauses. BUT, it had noticeable slow-mo/dropped-frames in the video, although the audio played fine throughout. It was highly annoying, but not as annoying as using SMB which paused every 50 seconds for about 5 seconds or so.

If NFS on Windows proves easy to configure and solves my problems, I will be quite pleased.

FWIW, I also played around with AirPlay. Using my recently-purchased high-powered desktop (Intel i7-2600), I set it up to maximize the bitrate of the on-the-fly conversion. Well, it played smoothly, but I'd rate PQ as sub-DVD quality. Resolution seemed to be softer than DVD (I'd compare it more to VHS), and colors were dull. It might have been good enough for streaming to an iPhone or iPod Touch, but I don't think I could be satisfied with that on an iPad or TV.