Nvidia Vs ATI?
#16
ion_man Wrote:Your build is the norm, 1080p is the problem not 720p. Most people would not be happy with just 720p especially since Nvidia does 1080p without any flaws on Linux.

BS.. 1080P is easy for my Zacate. Both on win7 and the newest kernel based Linux. Better than ION2 + d525
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#17
Thanks for you feedback everyone.

I'm booting a Live build at the moment, but I don't mind booting Win 7.

Does anyone know of any comparable builds from Win 7 against Live - spec for spec?
In other words, apart from being able to run an ATI card at 1080P in Win 7 and as poofyhairguy mentioned it's PVR capabilities, would I see greater performance using Win 7 over Live?

Updates-wise, I assume Win 7 would be easier?
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#18
For the AMD E350, the 1080p-Content (including Flash) should be easy to handle while running windows 7.

Cheers
.
Cheers
ubuntuf4n
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#19
Robotica Wrote:BS.. 1080P is easy for my Zacate. Both on win7 and the newest kernel based Linux. Better than ION2 + d525

I need a simple method of making this work, I have seen guides but being a complete Linux novice I don't understand them.

David
HTPC1: Intel Pentium G620, 4GB RAM, AMD HD6570, Samsung 830 SSD, Silverstone GD05 case.
HTPC2: AMD Athlon II X2 255, 4GB RAM, AMD HD5450, Western Digital HDD, Silverstone ML03 case.
HTPC3: AMD E350, 4GB RAM, AMD HD6310, OCZ Agility 3 SSD, Akasa Crypto case.
Media Server: i3-3220, 8gb RAM, WHS 2011, 8tb capacity, Fractal Design ARC Midi R2 case.
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#20
Robotica Wrote:BS.. 1080P is easy for my Zacate. Both on win7 and the newest kernel based Linux. Better than ION2 + d525

False.

Any Nvidia GPU since the 9xxx series AND
Any AMD GPU since the 5xxx series


can handle full 1080p. One doesn't magically do it "better" than the others, unless you want to get into an image quality debate which is a bad move considering that on Linux (your platform obviously) AMD lacks something as robust as Nvidia's VDPAU Color Correction.

Now if you want to say Zacate is better because it can bitstream HD audio, or because on Windows it might have a better image quality than you will be correct.

But please don't start spouting mis-truths about some platform playing 1080p better than another. 1080p playback for the max of the Blu Ray spec has been a given since ION 1. Now the different GPUs compete on 3D quality (Nvidia wins), 2D quality (AMD wins on Windows), and the ability to bistream HD audio (ION vs AMD AMD wins).

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#21
illusionuk Wrote:would I see greater performance using Win 7 over Live?

No. It is about the same on the same hardware, expect Windows takes a little longer to boot and (IMHO) is a little more sluggish when you actually try to playback the files.

Chose them based on other merits then speed.

Quote:Updates-wise, I assume Win 7 would be easier?

Kinda. If it is going to be a XBMC appliance then no, as you just install one XBMC Live on top of another. If you want to have other things going on (games, emulators, etc.) Windows is the easier long-term choice.

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#22
poofyhairguy Wrote:Now the different GPUs compete on 3D quality (Nvidia wins),

+1, amen

poofyhairguy Wrote:2D quality (AMD wins on Windows),

+1, amen

poofyhairguy Wrote:and the ability to bistream HD audio (ION vs AMD AMD wins).

+1, amen
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#23
poofyhairguy Wrote:False.

Any Nvidia GPU since the 9xxx series AND
Any AMD GPU since the 5xxx series


can handle full 1080p. One doesn't magically do it "better" than the others, unless you want to get into an image quality debate which is a bad move considering that on Linux (your platform obviously) AMD lacks something as robust as Nvidia's VDPAU Color Correction.

Now if you want to say Zacate is better because it can bitstream HD audio, or because on Windows it might have a better image quality than you will be correct.

But please don't start spouting mis-truths about some platform playing 1080p better than another. 1080p playback for the max of the Blu Ray spec has been a given since ION 1. Now the different GPUs compete on 3D quality (Nvidia wins), 2D quality (AMD wins on Windows), and the ability to bistream HD audio (ION vs AMD AMD wins).

5xxx series? AMD has had support for full 1080p GPU offloading since the 2xxx. As for Nvidia, the 8xxx series also have H.264/VC-1 support if i remember correctly.

Speaking of VDPAU color correction, is that the equivalent of the Dinamic Range setting under Windows, i.e. the ability to select 16-235 or 0-255 color ranges for the output ?
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#24
SpectreX Wrote:5xxx series? AMD has had support for full 1080p GPU offloading since the 2xxx. As for Nvidia, the 8xxx series also have H.264/VC-1 support if i remember correctly.

Yeah, earlier cards had varying support (I even think some Nvidia 79xx stuff had support at one time) but the 5xxx and 9xxx generations are when both companies no longer had cards that had any 2D limitations. The AMD 4xxx series was close, but I have had problems IRL with a low-end onboard GPU from that generation.

Quote:Speaking of VDPAU color correction, is that the equivalent of the Dinamic Range setting under Windows, i.e. the ability to select 16-235 or 0-255 color ranges for the output ?

Yes:

http://wiki.xbmc.org/index.php?title=Vid...s#Playback

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#25
illusionuk Wrote:When reading general reviews - ATI seem to win against performance, picture quality and overall more bang for your buck. Although from what I have gathered ATI is not recommended against a Live build; Nvidia drivers are better...?

I'm looking for a low-profile fan-less card to use.

I've used 2 fanless low-profile cards:

An ATi based one, the HIS HD5550 Silence:
Image

And a Nvidia based one, the Sparkle fanless GT430 (SXT4301024S3LNMP)
Image

Feature-wise (read: the things you mentioned that you don't really need), they would probably both be a good match. But that is purely on features.

I did not compare the cards directly image quality wise, but as far as I can tell there were no real differences.

Both were (are) used with Ubuntu 10.10 x64. I started out with the HD5550. Installation/getting it to work was no problem (compiling xbmc with VAAPI support, applying surface patch, installing external libs etc) - it just required some reading. Currently it would probably even be easier to have that card working. There are precompiled XBMC versions with VAAPI enabled, the surface patch is part of recent builds now etc. etc. The only thing that I didn't like, was that the card didn't (doesn't?) support MPEG2-HD hardware acceleration. But that was not what made me switch to the Sparkle fanless GT430.

The reason I bought the fanless GT430 was because the HIS did *not* respect the low-profile standards! The heatsink was just a few millimeters higher than the bracket, but enough to not make it fit in my case (Ahanix MCE-301).

The sparkle card was the only card I could find (at the time) that seemed to *really* fit the low profile standards. Setting it up was -in my view- not soooo much more easier than the ATI card. It was maybe handy that all things came sort of precompiled, but the few extra steps taken for an Ati card are (in my opinion) not that much to worry about (unless you really don't like to read a bit in to things - which you would have to do anyway when never have worked with linux for example). What I do like very much about the GT430 card is that it accelerates quite some more than the HD5550 it seems.

A bit of summary:
  • Not all low-profile cards *are* low-profile. If your prefered case needs real low-profile cards, pay attention to that
  • Ati based solutions *currently* do not seem to HW acc. as much as Nvidia based solutions - if that matters depends on what you need
  • Ati versus Nvidia 'setup' (getting it to work) is a non-issue in my view
  • Image quality can best be viewed personally, I didn't detect any (but didn't compare directly)
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#26
poofyhairguy Wrote:False.

Any Nvidia GPU since the 9xxx series AND
Any AMD GPU since the 5xxx series


can handle full 1080p. One doesn't magically do it "better" than the others, unless you want to get into an image quality debate which is a bad move considering that on Linux (your platform obviously) AMD lacks something as robust as Nvidia's VDPAU Color Correction.

Now if you want to say Zacate is better because it can bitstream HD audio, or because on Windows it might have a better image quality than you will be correct.

But please don't start spouting mis-truths about some platform playing 1080p better than another. 1080p playback for the max of the Blu Ray spec has been a given since ION 1. Now the different GPUs compete on 3D quality (Nvidia wins), 2D quality (AMD wins on Windows), and the ability to bistream HD audio (ION vs AMD AMD wins).

Thnx for your opinion.
if you really care about mis-truths... I was correcting the one where was said that 1080p couldn't be played by AMD.

And you're trying to catch me on my statement that AMD is better than Nvidia. But I didn't ment pictue quality; That discussion is very subjective.... I ment the XBMC experience.

I just ment that Zacate plays 1080p better in terms of having more power left for XBMC. So navigating through XBMC while playing a video or playing a video and at the same time downloading an .iso makes Zacate better for me. Not to mention USB3, SATA600, passive, price, 1333 mhz memory and other features Zacate has and ATOM/ION lacks. Hence, the XBMC experience is a lot better with AMD Zacate and I've tried a few ATOMs, ION, ION2 and Zacate is by far a lot better than any ATOM/ION/ION2 combo.

poofyhairguy Wrote:Now the different GPUs compete on 3D quality (Nvidia wins), 2D quality (AMD wins on Windows).
Since image quality is rather subjective can you elaborate?

btw: Eskro is spreading a lot of miss-truths: AMD drivers are bad, amd will not work on Linux, 1080p playback is a fail...etc. etc. I don't see him as an objective resource on hardware. I'll bet he never touched a Zacate and is writing it constantly down while I've seen myself that it is better than ATOM/ION. Maybe he is working for Intel or Nvidia..
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#27
Thanks for you replies everyone and -EaS- thank for the additional info - much appreciated.

As I want to keep things as simple as I can, I am going to stick with Nvidia, all I need to decide is whether I'm going stick with my Live version or install it into Win 7.

I'm using the Aeon MQ2 theme, which lags especially if I have a video running in the back ground. Is this down to my lame 7600GT that I'm currently running or could this be down to the fact I'm running a Core2Duo E6400 with 2Gig of Ram and it's just not cutting it?
Will this theme lag even more so in Win 7 or help improve things over Live?
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#28
Robotica Wrote:btw: Eskro is spreading a lot of miss-truths: AMD drivers are bad, amd will not work on Linux, 1080p playback is a fail...etc. etc. I don't see him as an objective resource on hardware. I'll bet he never touched a Zacate and is writing it constantly down while I've seen myself that it is better than ATOM/ION. Maybe he is working for Intel or Nvidia..

Read my sig. I'm spreading it too.

AMD support isn't compiled into nightly or other builds.
My AMD machine crashes every time I try to play a 1080p movie.
AMD libraries aren't quite into Ubuntu/Debian repositories 100% yet (most instructions keep calling for splitted desktop)


I've never had one problem with Nvidia. If you're a linux guru and you want to tinker, go with AMD. If you want something that just works and we have to deal with the least amount of your tech support, get Nvidia.
Code:
GRANT ALL PRIVILEGES ON `xbmc_%`.* TO 'xbmc'@'%';
IF you have a mysql problem, find one of the 4 dozen threads already open.
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#29
darkscout Wrote:Read my sig. I'm spreading it too.

AMD support isn't compiled into nightly or other builds.
My AMD machine crashes every time I try to play a 1080p movie.
AMD libraries aren't quite into Ubuntu/Debian repositories 100% yet (most instructions keep calling for splitted desktop)


I've never had one problem with Nvidia. If you're a linux guru and you want to tinker, go with AMD. If you want something that just works and we have to deal with the least amount of your tech support, get Nvidia.

My AMD zacate based HTPC plays everything except 1080p content, support for which I hope is not far away. I did nothing other than to install Ubuntu, install proprietry AMD GPU driver and then install xbmc. So AMD and Linux will do everything out of the box other than play 1080p content. If I had the skills I could follow one of the guides to get 1080p to work too but I don't.

EDIT: Also be aware that before this installation I had never looked at Linux so I was and still am a total newbie.

David
HTPC1: Intel Pentium G620, 4GB RAM, AMD HD6570, Samsung 830 SSD, Silverstone GD05 case.
HTPC2: AMD Athlon II X2 255, 4GB RAM, AMD HD5450, Western Digital HDD, Silverstone ML03 case.
HTPC3: AMD E350, 4GB RAM, AMD HD6310, OCZ Agility 3 SSD, Akasa Crypto case.
Media Server: i3-3220, 8gb RAM, WHS 2011, 8tb capacity, Fractal Design ARC Midi R2 case.
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#30
yes, it still needs some work to get AMD/ATI Zacate running on Linux. But very soon, this will be so easy with all distro's that in an objective buying advice, this isn't an argument anymore. Besides, XBMCFreak & Openelec already started supporting this platform so it already is very easy to run 1080P.

Only specs, price and features should be part of an buying advise and then AMD Zacate is a clear winner for everybody.
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