1080i native playback

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tangram Offline
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Post: #1
Hello.

I'm using XBMC Eden Beta on Ubuntu 10.04. I have configured 24p using the script http://forum.xbmc.org/showthread.php?tid=70068. everything is working very well Smile

But I trying to find a solution for 1080i 50Hz to play them native. If I set the standard resolution in xorg.conf from 1080p to 1080i 50Hz, then everything except 24p is played inteleaved, but I think that is not the way to go...

Is it possible to tell XBMC to switch to 1080i whenever the video is interleaved?
Just like XBMC does with 24p?
(This post was last modified: 2012-02-23 17:02 by tangram.)
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tangram Offline
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Post: #2
Any suggestions?
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FernetMenta Offline
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Post: #3
I don't understand why you want to do this. In general a PC has much better de-interlacing capabilities than a tv set. On Linux you get high quality de-interlacing with Nvidia GPUs. Even the more basic methods available on other hw can keep up with a tv.
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tangram Offline
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Post: #4
My flatscreen has the following modes:

Code:
# 1920x1080"          : 1920 x 1080 @  50.0 Hz  
# 1920x1080_50"       : 1920 x 1080 @  50.0 Hz  
# 1920x1080_60"       : 1920 x 1080 @  60.0 Hz  
# 1920x1080_60_0"     : 1920 x 1080 @ 59.94/60 Hz (CEA-861B Format 16)
# 1920x1080_24"       : 1920 x 1080 @ 23.97/24 Hz (CEA-861B Format 32)
# 1920x1080_60i"      : 1920 x 1080 @ 59.94/60 Hz (CEA-861B Format 5)
# 1920x1080_50i"      : 1920 x 1080 @ 50 Hz Interlace (CEA-861B Format 20)
# 1280x720"           : 1280 x  720 @  60.0 Hz  
# 1280x720_60"        : 1280 x  720 @  60.0 Hz  
# 1280x720_60_0"      : 1280 x  720 @ 59.94/60 Hz (CEA-861B Format 4)
# 1280x720_50"        : 1280 x  720 @  50.0 Hz  
# 720x576"            :  720 x  576 @ 50 Hz (CEA-861B Format 18)
# 720x576_50"         :  720 x  576 @ 50 Hz (CEA-861B Format 18)
# 720x576_50i"        : (1440)x 576 @ 50 Hz Interlace (CEA-861B Format 22)
.....

So I believe if the source is interlaced, then the TV displays the video in native interlaced mode (without deinterlacing). That happens if I play HD channels on my set top box. The box sends the interlaced stream to the TV and the mode is switched to 1080i (verified by the info display on the screen).

I have recorded many films in 1080i from TV channels and if I play them through XBMC they seem to loose "sharpness". That's the reason why I prefer 1080i for playback.

I'm using a barebone with an Intel D525 and NVidia Ion. I set the deinterlace option to off. So I think the NVidia card is doing the deinterlacing.

The same thing happens with 720p. The quality seem to be degraded too, because of the upscaling to 1080p. Maybe it is a problem to switch to 720p because of the on-screen-display(s) of XBMC....
(This post was last modified: 2012-02-23 22:41 by tangram.)
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FernetMenta Offline
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Post: #5
Quote:I set the deinterlace option to off. So I think the NVidia card is doing the deinterlacing

The settings refer to what is done inside XBMC. Make sure you have enabled vdpau hw acceleration and set deinterlacing mode to auto. Start with deinterlacing setting auto. This will engage vdpau temporal deinterlacer. For sd content set to temporal/spatial, this is the most advanced setting. Not sure if a 520 can do temporal/spatial on 1080i50 in the current version of vdpau (my 520m does without problems using already an improved version).
The settings are stored to with the files.

XBMC does a very good job in upscaling. Resolution on screen should be set to 1080.
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tangram Offline
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Post: #6
Quote:For sd content set to temporal/spatial, this is the most advanced setting. Not sure if a 520 can do temporal/spatial on 1080i50 in the current version of vdpau (my 520m does without problems using already an improved version).

I tried your suggestions:
- For SD temporal/spatial is working
- For HD only temporal/spatial (half) is running smooth

What is the difference between temporal/spatial and temporal/spatial (half)?
And is this a recommended mode?
I set the render method to Advanced shaders (GLSL) and enabled VDPAU and VAAPI. Is this correct?

But sorry, both settings are have not the same quality as playing the files native via the set-top-box (interleaved). So my last question is still:
Is an interleaved passthrough mode possible?
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LB06 Offline
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Post: #7
You need something like:

Code:
Modes   "1920x1080_60_0" "1920x1080_50" "1920x1080_24" "1920x1080_60i" "1920x1080_50i"
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tangram Offline
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Post: #8
I'm using the following settings in my modeline:

Code:
Section "Device"
    Identifier     "Device0"
    Driver         "nvidia"
    VendorName     "NVIDIA Corporation"
    BoardName      "ION"
    Option         "NoLogo"              "true"
    Option         "DynamicTwinView"     "false"
    Option         "FlatPanelProperties" "Scaling = Native"
    Option         "ModeValidation"      "NoVesaModes, NoXServerModes, NoVertRefreshCheck, NoHorizSyncCheck, AllowInterlacedModes"
    Option         "UseDisplayDevice"    "DFP-1"
    Option         "ModeDebug"           "true"
EndSection

Section "Screen"
    Identifier     "Screen0"
    Device         "Device0"
    Monitor        "Monitor0"
    DefaultDepth    24
    Option         "TwinView" "0"
    SubSection     "Display"
        Modes      "1920x1080_50" "1920x1080_60_0" "1920x1080_24" "1920x1080_50i" "1920x1080_60i" "720x576_50" "720x576_50i"
        Depth       24
    EndSubSection
EndSection

I choose 50 Hz at the first position, because I find it unnessacary to switch from 60 to 50 Hz every time a video starts. But the interleaved modes (and the 720p modes) doesn't seem to have any effect.
(This post was last modified: 2012-02-25 09:25 by tangram.)
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FernetMenta Offline
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Post: #9
Quote:Is an interleaved passthrough mode possible?
No, it is not.

Quote:What is the difference between temporal/spatial and temporal/spatial (half)?

The half modes skip every second frame: 25fps interlaced -> 25fps de-interlaced
The full modes: 25fps interlaced -> 50 fps de-interlaced

You can try a test build:
http://openelec.tv/forum/47-development-...=220#26643

It uses 4 past and 2 future frames for de-interlacing, instead of 2 past and 1 future. The performance is improved as well so that a ion2 can do temporal/spatial on 1080i50.
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robo989 Offline
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Post: #10
I assume this question has now been answered so hope this isn't interfereing, if so please disregard my post Smile

Very curious on this de-interlacing, I have a GT430 which I thought was the ideal card for de-interlacing but it isn't capable of smooth playback using temporal\spatial full on satellite HD DVB-S\S2 sources in the UK of around 9-10mbit. I get roughly 40fps instead of 50fps.

You say the 520M can do this OK?

I specifically avoided getting a 520 model due to hearing numerous reports about it's appalling de-interlacing abilities, even though having the new VP engine and thus able to decode standard progressive material at an extremely high fps limit.

Does the 520M not have these de-interlacing shortcomings?

I'm very interested, as obviously I'm sure you're aware there is no low profile, single slot, fan-less GT430 available. But there is a 520 that has those featues, ideal for a HTPC, if the de-interlacing issues are resolved\not present in the 520M version?

Thanks, much appreciated.
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tangram Offline
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Post: #11
FernetMenta Wrote:You can try a test build:
http://openelec.tv/forum/47-development-...=220#26643

It uses 4 past and 2 future frames for de-interlacing, instead of 2 past and 1 future. The performance is improved as well so that a ion2 can do temporal/spatial on 1080i50.

FernetMenta, thank you for this hint and for your answers.

Dont want to ignore the question of robo989, but is there a way to test the OpenElec build as PXE/syslinux instead of installing via the stick?
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FernetMenta Offline
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Post: #12
I have got a gt220 in my box in the living room and it does smooth playback on 1080i50 using temporal/spatial.
The problem is not your hardware, it has more power than my gt220 or a ion2. The problem is the single threaded de-interlacing (vdpau) in XBMC which limits performance. A gt220 for example needs 16-17ms only for de-interlacing of 1080i (sometimes more). There is not much room for delays in a 20ms window a frame needs to be displayed.
I am working on improvement for quire a while. You can try my vdpau branch:
https://github.com/FernetMenta/xbmc/tree/vdpau
or try the above mentioned openelec build.
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FernetMenta Offline
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Post: #13
tangram Wrote:FernetMenta, thank you for this hint and for your answers.

Dont want to ignore the question of robo989, but is there a way to test the OpenElec build as PXE/syslinux instead of installing via the stick?

Sorry, I don't know. Ask this in the openelec forum.
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tangram Offline
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Post: #14
FernetMenta Wrote:I am working on improvement for quire a while. You can try my vdpau branch:
https://github.com/FernetMenta/xbmc/tree/vdpau
or try the above mentioned openelec build.

I just cloned your branch and checked out master. But I'm missing the configure file?
Do you recommend to use your build an ION2 instead of the current Beta 3?
(This post was last modified: 2012-02-25 14:36 by tangram.)
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FernetMenta Offline
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Post: #15
tangram Wrote:I just cloned your branch and checked out master. But I'm missing the configure file?
Do you recommend to use your build an ION2 instead of the current Beta 3?

Branch VDPAU, not master. You need to run bootstrap after first clone. This branch is experimental and I was just curious if it would improve things on your system.
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