A10-5700 Mini ITX Build! Medium Gaming Graphics!

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Joe K Offline
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Lightbulb  A10-5700 Mini ITX Build! Medium Gaming Graphics!
Post: #1
The following is a quiet, compact entertainment computer. It allows for moderate gaming and will take care of any XBMC need you have, from pictures and music to 3D videos and surround sound.

GOAL:
  • 720p HIGH settings on modern games
  • Small case (less than 500 in^3)
  • Low noise generation

The main idea behind this setup is to allow me to play Skyrim (or similarly demanding game) at 720p on at least HIGH settings with a low profile machine. Click here for proof that playable FPS is possible with the integrated graphics. I understand this will not have the best graphics imaginable, but this is meant to be compact and quiet.

You can take this computer with you quite easily if you travel, or just play video games in your living without lugging our your monster of a gaming machine from your office.

CURRENT GAMING ABILITIES:
PC
  • Guild Wars 2: 720p, all medium-high settings (30-60 FPS)
    • Constantly over 30 FPS except in a few meta events with way too many people around, but you can still move.
    • Because I play this on a TV I use XPADDER and AutoHotkey (for "Combat Mode", google it), both of which makes playing with a controller much friendlier
  • Portal 2: 1080p, all high settings (30-60 FPS)
    • Constantly over 30 FPS, it dipped down to 10 FPS once when one of the cubes was coated in blue goo. Aside from that super smooth.
  • Borderlands 2: 720p, all low settings (30-40 FPS standing still)
    • High lag in large battles (10-20 FPS)
    • Will possibly be fixed soon, this processor is quite new and updates improving performance will happen
  • Skyrim: 720p, all high settings (30-60 FPS)
    • Plays great, over 30 FPS contantly
    • Handles the steam workshop water and tree mods quite well
PCSX2
Runs great! Obviously there is lots of tweaking to be done to get it looking just right, but it looks better than it did on my old PS2!

Dolphin Emulator
Runs great, looks better than my actual Wii!

I decided to just splice a USB cable into a sensor bar ($6 for the bar and I had a cable laying around). Now I don't have to worry about batteries any more!
  • Strip the wires on the USB cable, hook red up to red, and the silver sheeth wire surrounding the other wires to yellow/not-red.
  • I also took off the transparent black covers over the IR LED lights on the sensor bar. DRAMATIC performance boost, I can get ANY angle from the TV now and still get an accurate reading.
Onboard bluetooth
  • Works quite well with the Wiimotes.
  • At first it was a little laggy but after a day or two or playing games the Wiimote lag went away. I'm assuming it adjusted it's frequency based on other wireless signals around it.


SPECS:

[APU] $127 A10-5700, 65W
[COOLER] $36 Scythe Kozuti
[CASE FANS]$24 2 x Noctua 80mm Case Fans
  • The PWM version of the fans allows for automatic fan control at a slightly higher price (~$2 more), the ones linked above are the regular ones where you simply put in an included adapter that puts the fan at a constant speed.
[MOBO] $90 MSI FM2-A75IA-E53 Mini ITX Motherboard
  • Currently unavailable, keep an eye on Newegg and mwave if you want this mobo. Note: YOU CANNOT CURRENTLY UNDERVOLT WITH THIS MOBO
[RAM] $45 G.SKILL Ares Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3 1866 MHz 9 CAS
  • (Better RAM means better graphic performance with APUs, get at least 1866, lower CAS is better)
[CASE] $120 + ~$35 PSU upgrade Realan E-I7 + 150W PSU (soonish)
[PASTE] $11 PK-1 Thermal Paste
  • PK-1 did the trick for me, if you try to get by with a smaller heatsink or less fans you may try Indigo Xtreme - Main Site, best thermal compound on the market.
[SSD] $80 SAMSUNG 830 Series 2.5" 64GB SATA III
  • Popular options for SSD include: Intel 330, Samsung 830, Samsung 840 Pro (NOT REGULAR), Kingston HyperX, OCZ Agility 4



Total: $533 + ~$35 PSU (exact pricing still up in the air for PSU upgrade) + shipping (if any)

All prices are not including any coupons, combo deals, or substitutions.




IMPORTANT INFO FOR THIS BUILD, PLEASE READ
This motherboard CANNOT undervolt, but with the fans and heatsink I suggested you will keep everything quite cool.
  • Upon downloading AMD Overdrive, it looks like undervolting outside of the bios is possible. BUT upon installing AMD Overdrive my WiFi and Bluetooth STOPPED WORKING until I uninstalled it again.

I used CoreTemp to monitor my core temps. Newer AMD processors will give you the TCTL readings, which will show ambient temp as 0C. DON’T FREAK OUT, THIS IS OKAY. They set up a scale for the temps so they can customize them for each processor. All you need to know is the max operating temp is 70C (based on TCTL, NOT actual temps), and you should stay at least 20C below that. Shoot for 50C at most, my build is currently running between 35-40C according to CoreTemp while running Prime95. The following explains it a LOT better:
http://www.overclock.net/t/1330946/amd-t...ture-guide

The Kozuti heatsink was VERY difficult to install. I had to have my wife help me by holding the board while I mounted everything.



USEFUL LINKS:
Low Profile Heatsink Rankings
A10-5700 Review (Various Benchmarks, Game FPS Comparison, Power Consumption, Overclock Capabilities)

SIMILAR BUILDS:
http://forum.xbmc.org/showthread.php?tid...pid1265368

PICS: (They're a little big, I may try to downsize them a tad later)
(Also as uploading these I noticed I had the flash on my phone on, oops)

[Image: UwSaJ.jpg]

[Image: p91BG.jpg]

[Image: mzIJg.jpg]

[Image: h2xoh.jpg]

[Image: mxSf0.jpg]


QUESTIONS DURING THE BUILD:
  • Does anyone have other Case recommendations that would suit my needs? I am willing to get an external bluray player since I hardly ever use them anymore as is.
    • Answered for the most part, but I'm still up for suggestions! (E-I7 and ISK 300 are the top contenders right now)

ANSWERED QUESTIONS - THANKS!
  • This processor (A10-5800K) puts out a fair amount of heat, which is why I opted for an aftermarket cooler and the best thermal compound I could find. Will that be enough to keep temps at a "reasonable" amount whilst gaming? (Under 70C)
    • Current suggestions: Add more fans, change case, switch to a lower TDP processor (e.g. 65W A10-5700)
  • The PicoPSU Adapter is rated for 192W, but the picoPSU-160-XT portion of it is rated at 160W. I know no PSU is 100% efficient (this one says it is 96%), but doesn't this mean I would only get 160W max to my computer?
(This post was last modified: 2013-04-15 07:17 by Joe K.)
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RaggSokk3n Offline
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Post: #2
The psu should be good enought.
Not sure the case can handle 100w tdp, but i would thake that risk and go for it Smile
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eskro Offline
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Post: #3
your PSU is determined by the weakest link. in your case,
you need to think like u have an 160W psu. not 192W.

becareful on your ram there, the A10-5800K supports only up to DDR3 1866....
http://www.amazon.com/Kingston-Modules-1...132&sr=8-1
(This post was last modified: 2012-11-08 09:12 by eskro.)
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Beer40oz Offline
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Post: #4
A10-5800K FTW! .... I been reading on it and it is a great little chip.

The Antec 300-150 case might just work.... heat will be the issue. It comes with that one 80MM fan on the case but a second can be adapted to the bracket because it does have the holes for another..... so it may require two fan to blow the heat out.....

Do some testing...

If not look into the Silverstone Sugo SG05 or SG06 series... they have a little more room and come with a nice PSU already... may be great with the A10-5800K

infact I was thinking of the A10-5800K to test it out and have fun with it in a Sugo case...

Even also the Thermaltake Q case will work.... its cheaper.... also one of my favorites. You just need to add a 120mm FAN to the side inside... it fits like a glove.
(This post was last modified: 2012-11-08 13:19 by Beer40oz.)
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bladeds Offline
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Post: #5
http://www.game-debate.com/ if sign up input your pc details. Then find the games you wanna play, it will tell you what settings it can handle.
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tazz0710 Offline
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Post: #6
I cant tell for sure in the pictures on newegg it appears that i can use a OD with the Sugo05 or 06 correct? I want to have blueray and i have been eyeing the A10-5800k myself

also could i go with this http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.as...6820147163 in stead of the 64gb. It is the WW not the AM so not sure if that's a big difference or not.

Thanks.
(This post was last modified: 2012-11-08 16:53 by tazz0710.)
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Dougie Fresh Offline
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Post: #7
(2012-11-08 06:56)Joe K Wrote:  [*]The PicoPSU Adapter is rated for 192W, but the picoPSU-160-XT portion of it is rated at 160W. I know no PSU is 100% efficient (this one says it is 96%), but doesn't this mean I would only get 160W max to my computer?

This is a bit of a marketing trick. The picoPSU is only doing DC-DC conversion (12V to 5V, 12V, 3.3V, etc.) which is a fairly efficient process unlike AC-DC. The efficiency quoted in other PSUs is for the AC-DC and DC-DC process. The AC-DC conversion process is less efficient. With a picoPSU that's happening in the AC adapter so they don't quote it. There's some other scale for rating AC adapters using letters or roman numerals (see: http://www.energystar.gov/ia/partners/pr...otocol.pdf) but not every manufacturer adheres to the standard or cares about Energy Star, a US program. Given the low wattage, they tend to be fairly efficient anyways but who knows how efficient the typical ones from China you find on Amazon, eBay or bundled with picoPSUs really are.

For running at maximum look at the 160-XT documentation about peak usage and limitations there around ventilation and how long to run at peak. Also pay attention to how many amps on each rail.
(This post was last modified: 2012-11-08 17:21 by Dougie Fresh.)
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bluray Offline
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Post: #8
(2012-11-08 06:56)Joe K Wrote:  [APU] $130 A10-5800K, 100W
[CASE] $90 Antec ISK 300-150
The powerful 100w A10-5800K will be tossed in that case.....why not the 65w "AMD A8-5500 Trinity 3.2GHz or AMD A10-5700 Trinity 3.4GHz" instead? It should be able to handle everything the A10-5800K can.....

>Alienware X51- do it all HTPC
>Simplify XBMC configurations
>HOW-TO Bitstreaming using XBMC
I refused to watch movie without bitstreaming HD audio!
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Dougie Fresh Offline
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Post: #9
(2012-11-08 19:39)bluray Wrote:  
(2012-11-08 06:56)Joe K Wrote:  [APU] $130 A10-5800K, 100W
[CASE] $90 Antec ISK 300-150
The powerful 100w A10-5800K will be tossed in that case.....why not the 65w "AMD A8-5500 Trinity 3.2GHz or AMD A10-5700 Trinity 3.4GHz" instead? It should be able to handle everything the A10-5800K can.....

+1. And, if they are anything like the A8-3800, you can use a 120W picoPSU. The A8-3800 I tested yesterday maxed out at 96W with all four cores at 100%. It also ran cool in an E-i5 mini-ITX case with the NT07-AM2 CPU cooler (surprisingly, cooler than the A6-3500).

[Edit] You cannot use a 120W PSU with the A10-5700. You need 150W.
(This post was last modified: 2012-11-10 06:27 by Dougie Fresh.)
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Joe K Offline
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Post: #10
(2012-11-08 09:11)eskro Wrote:  your PSU is determined by the weakest link. in your case,
you need to think like u have an 160W psu. not 192W.

becareful on your ram there, the A10-5800K supports only up to DDR3 1866....
http://www.amazon.com/Kingston-Modules-1...132&sr=8-1

From what I've researched, although it only supports up to DDR3 1866 it still benefits from higher clocked RAM:
http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/har...ew-25.html

(2012-11-08 13:10)Beer40oz Wrote:  A10-5800K FTW! .... I been reading on it and it is a great little chip.

The Antec 300-150 case might just work.... heat will be the issue. It comes with that one 80MM fan on the case but a second can be adapted to the bracket because it does have the holes for another..... so it may require two fan to blow the heat out.....

Do some testing...

If not look into the Silverstone Sugo SG05 or SG06 series... they have a little more room and come with a nice PSU already... may be great with the A10-5800K

infact I was thinking of the A10-5800K to test it out and have fun with it in a Sugo case...

Even also the Thermaltake Q case will work.... its cheaper.... also one of my favorites. You just need to add a 120mm FAN to the side inside... it fits like a glove.

I'm trying to keep as small of a case as possible to make it more portable. I'm toying with the idea of just tossing several 80mm fans in to keep the air flow going.

(2012-11-08 17:18)Dougie Fresh Wrote:  
(2012-11-08 06:56)Joe K Wrote:  [*]The PicoPSU Adapter is rated for 192W, but the picoPSU-160-XT portion of it is rated at 160W. I know no PSU is 100% efficient (this one says it is 96%), but doesn't this mean I would only get 160W max to my computer?

This is a bit of a marketing trick. The picoPSU is only doing DC-DC conversion (12V to 5V, 12V, 3.3V, etc.) which is a fairly efficient process unlike AC-DC. The efficiency quoted in other PSUs is for the AC-DC and DC-DC process. The AC-DC conversion process is less efficient. With a picoPSU that's happening in the AC adapter so they don't quote it. There's some other scale for rating AC adapters using letters or roman numerals (see: http://www.energystar.gov/ia/partners/pr...otocol.pdf) but not every manufacturer adheres to the standard or cares about Energy Star, a US program. Given the low wattage, they tend to be fairly efficient anyways but who knows how efficient the typical ones from China you find on Amazon, eBay or bundled with picoPSUs really are.

For running at maximum look at the 160-XT documentation about peak usage and limitations there around ventilation and how long to run at peak. Also pay attention to how many amps on each rail.

Thank you, that makes more sense now.

(2012-11-08 19:39)bluray Wrote:  
(2012-11-08 06:56)Joe K Wrote:  [APU] $130 A10-5800K, 100W
[CASE] $90 Antec ISK 300-150
The powerful 100w A10-5800K will be tossed in that case.....why not the 65w "AMD A8-5500 Trinity 3.2GHz or AMD A10-5700 Trinity 3.4GHz" instead? It should be able to handle everything the A10-5800K can.....

I know the A10-5700 would do the trick, I am just a little power hungry wanting the A10-5800K. Unfortunately 100W processor would likely require a lot of noisy fans to keep it cool. I may need to change to the 65W A10-5700...
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eskro Offline
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Post: #11
(2012-11-09 04:29)Joe K Wrote:  From what I've researched, although it only supports up to DDR3 1866 it still benefits from higher clocked RAM:
http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/har...ew-25.html

well, at the end, they say --> In our opinion the best route for Trinity users is to buy a good kit of 1866MHz memory and overclock it as needed.
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Dougie Fresh Offline
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Post: #12
+1 on 1866Mhz.
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Beer40oz Offline
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Post: #13
(2012-11-09 05:53)eskro Wrote:  
(2012-11-09 04:29)Joe K Wrote:  From what I've researched, although it only supports up to DDR3 1866 it still benefits from higher clocked RAM:
http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/har...ew-25.html

well, at the end, they say --> In our opinion the best route for Trinity users is to buy a good kit of 1866MHz memory and overclock it as needed.

Everyone knows you need 1866... Wink
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Joe K Offline
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Post: #14
True, you can get 1866 and overclock from there. Would it make any difference to buy 2133 and underclock to 1866 if you wanted?
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bluray Offline
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Post: #15
(2012-11-09 16:35)Joe K Wrote:  True, you can get 1866 and overclock from there. Would it make any difference to buy 2133 and underclock to 1866 if you wanted?
That is what this guy did at AnandTech- AMD's Trinity : An HTPC Perspective.....since it is designed to handle 2.133GHz, for sure it will run cooler when underclock to 1.866GHz...

>Alienware X51- do it all HTPC
>Simplify XBMC configurations
>HOW-TO Bitstreaming using XBMC
I refused to watch movie without bitstreaming HD audio!
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