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AMD AM1 SOC Platform Discussion
#76
(2014-05-13, 05:50)Dougie Fresh Wrote:
(2014-05-13, 00:34)ronbaby Wrote: Please look up eBay item number 141149319958.

I guess what you are saying is that that guy who is selling those cases (with heat sinks even) for a mere $3.31 USD including shipping somehow managed to find a way to manufacture and sell them without paying for any of the things you just mentioned.

Your mini-ITX motherboard isn't going to fit into that case and that heatsink won't adequately cool a FM1 processor.
Geeezzz. I know that. Don't you think I know that?

I was trying to make a point about retail prices of simple boxes to hold boards.

Obviously, mini ITX is one helluva lot bigger than a Raspberry PI, but even if you assumed, just for the sake of argument, than a mini ITX case would require, say, just for argument's sake, 8 times the amount of material, labor, shipping, etc. etc. as that $3.31 Raspberry Pi case, that still comes out to only $26.48, shipped and delivered to my door, which is less than half of what sellers seem to be selling even the lowest of low end mini ITX cases (without power supply) for.

Somebody just needs to get some Chinese factory interested in doing the project. (And yes, today I've tried to make contact with the guy selling those RPI cases and I'll see what he says about maybe having his factory do a mini ITX box along the same lines. I mean what the hell! It doesn't hurt to ask!)

Quote:You'll still need a power supply too.

Well, yes, but it appears that that cost may be somewhere in the $7-17 USD range, which is not a big part of the overall equation (for a system build based on AM1H-ITX).

But, ah, as long as you mentioned it, I am wondering.... that AsRock AM1H-ITX board... assuming one were to go with the power-brick option, one would need what, exactly? I mean I understand it is 19V, but worst case, with every other thing imaginable also wired up, what would be the likely worst case amps (or watts)? In other words, would this one be likely to support the board and a maximal compliment of memory and peripherals?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/190959949667?lpid=82

I'm guessing that the answer is "yes". (And at only $7.08 USD that ain't bad at all. Certainly one helluva lot cheaper than a big honkin' ATX style power supply. And, ah, oh yea, quieter too.)

Or perhaps this 120 watt supply would be a better choice:

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Denaq-Denaq-6....s/20836097

(That one also is still pretty damn inexpensive.)

But I'm not really a guy who can calculate the likely max power draw of this board + maximal peripherals, so somebody more familiar with these kinds of calculations is going to have to do that math for me.
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#77
(2014-05-12, 12:15)mmathiou Wrote: There is no need to spend so much money for a case. For 21$ + taxes you can buy this

http://www.guru3d.com/news_story/aerocoo...cases.html
http://www.aerocool.com.tw/pgs/pgs-q/1111.html
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/aerocoo...26579.html

The red is a beauty. In Europe where I live it is sold 30 euro (it is more expensive due to higher VAT)

There are also in europe slim cases with psu around 34 euros (approx 40$ ) like MS-TECH LC-02 but I am not sure if they sold in US.

Those cases are extremely large and for mATX. I'm not buying an ITX system if I can't benefit from the small size.

What I miss are SMALL ITX cases with a 3.5" hdd slot. The cases are either huge, expensive or lack the 3.5" slot.

(2014-05-13, 07:07)ronbaby Wrote: Obviously, mini ITX is one helluva lot bigger than a Raspberry PI, but even if you assumed, just for the sake of argument, than a mini ITX case would require, say, just for argument's sake, 8 times the amount of material, labor, shipping, etc. etc. as that $3.31 Raspberry Pi case, that still comes out to only $26.48, shipped and delivered to my door, which is less than half of what sellers seem to be selling even the lowest of low end mini ITX cases (without power supply) for.

The ITX cases that you are comparing this to are more than just some acrylic stuck together. It wouldn't work well for ITX. You need to be able to access it easily, space for hdd or extension cards and so on..

In fact I'm currently planning an ITX case from acrylic and sheet metal. Although it's small the materials alone already would cost ~20€ (~28$) (retail non-bulk prices because it's a personal project). That still doesn't include work time (acrylic has to be laser cut, sheet metal handcut and bent, development time,..).

Let's assume I can find the raw materials for half the price and mass produce in china. I still don't see how it could cost under 20$ to manufacture. Add profit (50-100%), taxes and it's already up to 36-48$. Shipping maybe +20$(?)
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#78
I recently bought a ATX case (no psu) at a local retailer (Canada) decent quality and build for $25. I don't really see why a basic mini itx htpc case couldn't be made and sold for a similar amount. Most applicable itx cases in my area are $50 and up. I'd rather spend the money on the power supply.

I think we are getting a bit off topic, and should probably be a separate thread. It would be interesting if these posts could be separated into another thread.
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#79
(2014-05-13, 07:07)ronbaby Wrote:
(2014-05-13, 05:50)Dougie Fresh Wrote:
(2014-05-13, 00:34)ronbaby Wrote: Please look up eBay item number 141149319958.

I guess what you are saying is that that guy who is selling those cases (with heat sinks even) for a mere $3.31 USD including shipping somehow managed to find a way to manufacture and sell them without paying for any of the things you just mentioned.

Your mini-ITX motherboard isn't going to fit into that case and that heatsink won't adequately cool a FM1 processor.
Geeezzz. I know that. Don't you think I know that?

I was trying to make a point about retail prices of simple boxes to hold boards.

Obviously, mini ITX is one helluva lot bigger than a Raspberry PI, but even if you assumed, just for the sake of argument, than a mini ITX case would require, say, just for argument's sake, 8 times the amount of material, labor, shipping, etc. etc. as that $3.31 Raspberry Pi case, that still comes out to only $26.48, shipped and delivered to my door, which is less than half of what sellers seem to be selling even the lowest of low end mini ITX cases (without power supply) for.

Somebody just needs to get some Chinese factory interested in doing the project. (And yes, today I've tried to make contact with the guy selling those RPI cases and I'll see what he says about maybe having his factory do a mini ITX box along the same lines. I mean what the hell! It doesn't hurt to ask!)

Quote:You'll still need a power supply too.

Well, yes, but it appears that that cost may be somewhere in the $7-17 USD range, which is not a big part of the overall equation (for a system build based on AM1H-ITX).

You're going to be a lot less frustrated if you stop comparing unfinished plastic RPi cases from China to all-aluminum mini-ITX cases with a power supply from the USA. There just aren't any local sweatshops here. I encourage you though to start your own importing business and charge $5 for your cases. I will be a very happy customer of yours!

You can order cheap plastic mini-ITX cases from China: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/MINI-ITX-...34969.html $36.50 with free shipping. It will take about 3 weeks and you'll get no support if anything goes wrong but it's cheap you're after so you don't want to pay for service after the sale anyway.

You can also order knock-off pico power supplies though it violates mini-box's patent to do so but against we're going to cheap here not necessary legal: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-Expr...07544.html $15.03 when you order 1000. Sell the other 999 to your friends (don't get caught) or get this one: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/DC-12V-Pi...68113.html.

12V external AC adapters can also be found cheap: http://www.amazon.com/Adapter-Power-Supp...003TUMDWG/ $8.00

But I guess even ordering cheap questionable parts from China that's still $60.

You should definitely get the mATX versions of Kabini.

(2014-05-13, 14:45)ertman Wrote: I recently bought a ATX case (no psu) at a local retailer (Canada) decent quality and build for $25. I don't really see why a basic mini itx htpc case couldn't be made and sold for a similar amount. Most applicable itx cases in my area are $50 and up. I'd rather spend the money on the power supply.

I think we are getting a bit off topic, and should probably be a separate thread. It would be interesting if these posts could be separated into another thread.

I've seen this with cars too like how the Porsche 911 is more expensive than the Honda Odyssey yet the Honda Odyssey is like twice the size. You would think it'd be the other way around.

In the USA, nickels are bigger than dimes yet worth half.

Weird

Big Grin
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#80
How does $264 + shipping for a mini-ITX case grab you?

http://www.shop.perfecthometheater.com/H...0-rb-B.htm
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#81
(2014-05-13, 15:10)Dougie Fresh Wrote:
(2014-05-13, 14:45)ertman Wrote: I recently bought a ATX case (no psu) at a local retailer (Canada) decent quality and build for $25. I don't really see why a basic mini itx htpc case couldn't be made and sold for a similar amount. Most applicable itx cases in my area are $50 and up. I'd rather spend the money on the power supply.

I think we are getting a bit off topic, and should probably be a separate thread. It would be interesting if these posts could be separated into another thread.

I've seen this with cars too like how the Porsche 911 is more expensive than the Honda Odyssey yet the Honda Odyssey is like twice the size. You would think it'd be the other way around.

In the USA, nickels are bigger than dimes yet worth half.

Weird

Big Grin

True, but I already bought the muscle car or highend SUV and now I will settle for a Suzuki Swift. It's small, inexpensive, but gets the job done. I am willing to trade features and some build quality for price. The problem is that some cases have increased in costs while decreasing in functionality and build quality.

And dimes are smaller than quarters and worth less than half as much.... Trippy.


(2014-05-13, 15:22)Dougie Fresh Wrote: How does $264 + shipping for a mini-ITX case grab you?

http://www.shop.perfecthometheater.com/H...0-rb-B.htm

I think it is over priced, but offers more features than I am currently looking for. It's fine for those who want that product, and are willing to pay for it. Back to your car analogy, I am not looking for a luxury or highend sports car but I am looking for an econobox.
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#82
Is it normal that my Athlon 5350 has 41C temperature shortly after power-up, doing nothing?
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#83
just wanted to add my two cents here.

I bought E-i5 couple years ago, and it is a quality case. the quality can't be compared to those cheap ITX cases like MI-008.
If you're looking to get cheaper cases, grab MI-008 .When they go on sale it can be bought for like $30 with PSU

comparing it to regular atx cases, you can buy cheap cases like NZXT Source 210 (which is one of my favorite) for like $40 but you can also buy better design and high quality like NZXT H440 ($120 MSRP).

i am not gonna lie, dougie fresh's stuff is expensive, but you pay for the quality and design.
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#84
(2014-05-13, 22:29)jangjong Wrote: just wanted to add my two cents here.

I bought E-i5 couple years ago, and it is a quality case. the quality can't be compared to those cheap ITX cases like MI-008.
If you're looking to get cheaper cases, grab MI-008 .When they go on sale it can be bought for like $30 with PSU

comparing it to regular atx cases, you can buy cheap cases like NZXT Source 210 (which is one of my favorite) for like $40 but you can also buy better design and high quality like NZXT H440 ($120 MSRP).

i am not gonna lie, dougie fresh's stuff is expensive, but you pay for the quality and design.

Thanks for your input.

The stuff being sold by Dougie has a good value to price ratio, you certainly get what you pay for, no arguing that.
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#85
(2014-05-13, 15:10)Dougie Fresh Wrote: You can order cheap plastic mini-ITX cases from China: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/MINI-ITX-...34969.html $36.50 with free shipping. It will take about 3 weeks and you'll get no support if anything goes wrong but it's cheap you're after so you don't want to pay for service after the sale anyway.
Thank you! That's actually the kind of thing I've been looking for, but didn't know how to find on my own (till now).

That would be just fine for something that's going to sit in the back closet, or under the desk.
Quote:You can also order knock-off pico power supplies though it violates mini-box's patent to do so but against we're going to cheap here not necessary legal: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-Expr...07544.html
There's no need for a converter like that with the specific ASRock board I mentioned... just a ``standard'' 19V external power brick with the correct sized barrel plug. (Apparently, the external PSUs for ASUS laptops have the correct voltage and barrel connector.)

Oh! And I answered my own question about the power supply for that board. In the manual for the board they have various recommendations for various numbers of memory SIMMS and various numbers of hard drives, the max being 2 of each, for which they recommend a 19v/60watt power supply. (So I guess that even the very inexpensive 90w ones I found on eBay would be dramatic overkill... far more than this board is likely to need in practice.)

The bad news, apparently, is that if you go with the 19v external brick... as opposed to, you know, a traditional ATX type 20+4 pin type supply... then you can't put a graphics card into the PCIe slot. But that's OK, because who would want to anyway? I can't see how anyone who just planned to run XBMC would need a discrete card.
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#86
This AC adapter should work though I can't attest to the quality of it: http://smile.amazon.com/19v-3-42a-65w-Re...B0037ZKBB8 $8.97. The one place I'd spend a little more is on the AC adapter so it'll last and get something branded and UL listed like this Delta AC adapter: http://www.amazon.com/19V-3-42A-65W-AC-A...B004VS6VEG $16.85.

I have the same ASRock board but I haven't put a system together yet to check it out. I would watch the height on the small cases since the heatsink is ~40mm tall. I know it won't fit in the 55mm aluminum cases that are the same size as that plastic one but will fit in the 75mm tall cases I have (E-i5).

There are also other motherboard options that have an embedded CPU so either a smaller or passive heatsink:

ASRock Q1900-ITX Intel Celeron J1900 Motherboard/CPU/VGA Combo
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.as...6813157494 $76

GIGABYTE GA-C1037UN Intel Dual-core Celeron 1037U (1.8 GHz) Intel NM70 Mini ITX Motherboard/CPU/VGA Combo
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.as...6813128679 $86

ASRock QC5000-ITX/WiFi AMD FT3 Kabini A4-5000 Quad-Core APU Mini ITX Motherboard/
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.as...6813157518 $99

All less expensive than Newegg.com's price for the AMD 5350 + ASRock AM1H-ITX combo but still very good for HTPC.
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#87
(2014-05-13, 20:20)ForgottenMan Wrote: Is it normal that my Athlon 5350 has 41C temperature shortly after power-up, doing nothing?

The Gigabyte easytune software that came with my mobo reports my 5350 at 26C on idle
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#88
(2014-05-13, 20:20)ForgottenMan Wrote: Is it normal that my Athlon 5350 has 41C temperature shortly after power-up, doing nothing?

(2014-05-14, 10:57)stammie Wrote: The Gigabyte easytune software that came with my mobo reports my 5350 at 26C on idle

I don't have mine running right now, but on my test run I believe my numbers (in bios) were similar to stammie's. Can you verify if the fan spinning and that the heatsink is/was mounted properly? Other factors such as ambient temperature, case used, cable management, etc. will affect your idle temperature. It could also be a sensor issue.

Could you provide information regarding:
Approximate Ambient Temperature
Temperature when the CPU is under load
Case
Motherboard model
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#89
(2014-05-14, 10:57)stammie Wrote:
(2014-05-13, 20:20)ForgottenMan Wrote: Is it normal that my Athlon 5350 has 41C temperature shortly after power-up, doing nothing?

The Gigabyte easytune software that came with my mobo reports my 5350 at 26C on idle

In my experience with the Gigabyte software though, is that it does not poll the CPU's temperature sensor, but instead a sensor under the CPU, on the motherboard, and that those numbers thusly don't truly reflect the current CPU temperature.
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#90
(2014-05-14, 12:12)ertman Wrote: Could you provide information regarding:
Approximate Ambient Temperature
Temperature when the CPU is under load
Case
Motherboard model

Ambient Temperature about 19C
Case In-Win 60W
Motherboard Asus AM1I-A

Heatsink is mounted properly and the fan is spinning. I'm reading temperature from BIOS.
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