[noggin]

Thanks noggin, i always forget about such SoC limits.

And every time i forget, I do get annoyed when i look at 'fuzzy' spec sheets which don't clearly state what a product is capable of.
Case in point with the RPi-2 spec sheet from RS components where Video Output HDMI (rev 1.3 & 1.4) and Audio output HDMI is stated.
The above spec is obscure and RS components should be ashamed as they should know that the SoC can't output HD audio.
The above spec sheet should really specify Audio Output HDMI 1.2a which unlike HDMI 1.3 or 1.4 can not carry HD audio streams!
I haven't looked at the spec sheet for the compute board but likley it's also obscure...

For now the RPi-2 works well but it wont meet my needs once i get some quality speakers installed.
And obviously an updated SLICE won't be a solution to HD audio and other PRi-2 nigglies i've mentioned (which clarifies to me it's overpriced).

Thanks again

I have a feeling that the Pi has some HDMI 1.3a specific features that weren't present in HDMI 1.2 - particularly HDMI CEC audio control of intermediate devices (So you can control your amp from your Pi, as well as your Pi from your TV) There were also some hardware changes to the signal specs which the Pi may implement at the 1.3 level not the 1.2 level.

The issue that you have with HDMI specs is the degree of options in them - but that's always going to be the issue with a spec that has to cater for £25 media players and AV systems that cost thousands of times that. HDMI 1.3a allows for higher bit depth, alternative colour spaces, 3D etc. but I don't expect every display or source to support them.

The HDMI association aren't brilliant at detailing the detailed differences in their specs - but I guess most consumers probably don't massively care about changes to TMDS overshoot and undershoot values either...

It's tricky as well - as some specs will not be SoC based but either software or firmware dependent.

[bellardfloard]

Hello

I will be honest and say that it is me that made this issue

https://github.com/FiveNinjas/SliceOS/issues/12

why is SLICE allowed to violate gpl and no one cares? is it because they are part of pi and kodi is officially part of raspberrypi too?

honestly reason i am so annoyed is i ordered and want the skin on my desktop so i can get used to it but nothing they don't even reply. avoid.

[Martijn]

Hello

I will be honest and say that it is me that made this issue

https://github.com/FiveNinjas/SliceOS/issues/12

why is SLICE allowed to violate gpl and no one cares? is it because they are part of pi and kodi is officially part of raspberrypi too?

honestly reason i am so annoyed is i ordered and want the skin on my desktop so i can get used to it but nothing they don't even reply. avoid.

Just send a email to the slice guys asking for some clarification on the subject.
Them being part of the Pi foundation is no excuse of violating the GPL.
I've pointed them to the github issue and now we wait for the response.

Let me clarify that if they custom build the skin theirselves they are allowed to not open the code for it.
The rest of Kodi and openelec should be made publicm

[natethomas]

I'm fairly unclear on the situation, based on that thread. My major question is, have they actually released a binary somewhere?

[nickr]

As the Slice still seems to be up for "pre-order" http://fiveninjas.com/ it doesn't seem to have been shipped. If they haven't distributed a binary, they don't have to release any source code!

EDIT: then again this page says they are now shipping the kickstarter units http://shop.fiveninjas.com/ so they are obliged to provide source to their customers (but not the general public).

[bellardfloard]

maybe you are right guys

i asked them in the git issue. they are shipping slice but they said because the software is 'early days' the GPL does not make them need to release software

so i guess we just wait

that's fine i didn't know you have a few months before you need to follow open source gpl license

here is a binary which ships on retail units according to a post on their forum

http://updates.fiveninjas.com/slice/stab...tem.tar.xz

[nickr]

Well then they do have to release their source but not to you

[Ned Scott]

IIRC, there is some debate about what is a reasonable amount of time to respond to an official request for the source code, which can only be demanded by those who have received the software so far. They could, for example, print all of the code out on paper and send it to you in the mail, which wouldn't be instant. The GPL just isn't really clear on all of that. It's not something clear like "a few months", and I think most people would argue that a few months is more than a reasonable amount of time to respond.

Until someone with a Slice actually says that they have requested the source code and have not received it within a few weeks or so, then I personally wouldn't consider it a GPL violation, but I'm not a lawyer and I could easily be wrong about everything I've ever said.

[bellardfloard]

i was not clear

I ordered a Slice and am waiting for it. They said they would release open source skin at the time with the open source fonts

but i wanted to try other OSes on it like raspbian and that's not possible. The version of NOOBS they release has no source code and their openelec has no source code so even if i do get it running i can't get the leds working properly.

seems someone explained how to get osmc on a slice:

https://github.com/samnazarko/osmc/issue...-101064271

i don't want osmc at least not yet as it is not even out of alpha but want to get raspbian on it too.

one of the five ninjas replies there and just says if we try using the multios method that mdeiders uses it will possibly brick our slice...

the site says it is all about hacking and cherishing the device but no source coe for it anywhere. i have asked and not been given it.

but as nickr says i probably can't get the source code unless they are generous or i pay. only openelec can get it but they probably don't care. also if i don't have it yet i guess i can't raise a complaint about gpl? but some people do and this seems odd. they said it was all open source.

just seems a waste as i bought the slice thinking it would be moddable. i still have no slice. asked for money back but 'Mo' says it is tied up in parts.

i guess what i am really worried about is that if slice doesn't ship them all as i backed in august 2014 and it is now june 2015, and i do somehow get one, they will not support it for long if it is not making them money and i will end up with a non updatable box

[nickr]

IIRC, there is some debate about what is a reasonable amount of time to respond to an official request for the source code, which can only be demanded by those who have received the software so far. They could, for example, print all of the code out on paper and send it to you in the mail, which wouldn't be instant. The GPL just isn't really clear on all of that. It's not something clear like "a few months", and I think most people would argue that a few months is more than a reasonable amount of time to respond.

Until someone with a Slice actually says that they have requested the source code and have not received it within a few weeks or so, then I personally wouldn't consider it a GPL violation, but I'm not a lawyer and I could easily be wrong about everything I've ever said.

The GPL is clear that the source code must be "machine-readable" and "on a medium customarily used for software interchange".


Timing? Ask google, they regularly take an age to publish the GPL parts of android.

[nickr]

i was not clear

I ordered a Slice and am waiting for it. They said they would release open source skin at the time with the open source fonts

but i wanted to try other OSes on it like raspbian and that's not possible. The version of NOOBS they release has no source code and their openelec has no source code so even if i do get it running i can't get the leds working properly.

seems someone explained how to get osmc on a slice:

https://github.com/samnazarko/osmc/issue...-101064271

i don't want osmc at least not yet as it is not even out of alpha but want to get raspbian on it too.

one of the five ninjas replies there and just says if we try using the multios method that mdeiders uses it will possibly brick our slice...

the site says it is all about hacking and cherishing the device but no source coe for it anywhere. i have asked and not been given it.

but as nickr says i probably can't get the source code unless they are generous or i pay. only openelec can get it but they probably don't care. also if i don't have it yet i guess i can't raise a complaint about gpl? but some people do and this seems odd. they said it was all open source.

just seems a waste as i bought the slice thinking it would be moddable. i still have no slice. asked for money back but 'Mo' says it is tied up in parts.

i guess what i am really worried about is that if slice doesn't ship them all as i backed in august 2014 and it is now june 2015, and i do somehow get one, they will not support it for long if it is not making them money and i will end up with a non updatable box

If you have been supplied with a slice, it will obviously be with their version of Kodi as well as an (I assume linux) kernel, the userland parts of the OS, some skins and/or addons and a bootloader. The first 2 are obviously GPL2 (and probably most of the userland) and you may legitimately demand the source code.

Skins and addons are written in xml and python, so you should simply be able to read those. The only problem with a skin might be the compiling of graphical elements into tbn (?) files. However the xml should be readable.

The bootloader may or may not be GPL, and I suspect this is what you will need to hack in order to run other OSes. I am pretty sure that most bootloaders that are likely top be used are GPL, but I am not completely familiar with that, so I am really only guessing.

[RockerC]

this page says they are now shipping the kickstarter units http://shop.fiveninjas.com/ so they are obliged to provide source to their customers (but not the general public).

Slice is simply based on the Raspberry Pi Compute Module so you can most likely just use their Kodi builds and OpenELEC images on any Raspberry Pi if they provide it for public download.

And they look to be providing nightly builds for download via their public support forum http://forums.fiveninjas.com/c/support

We do not have to own a Slice box if they are not only doing direct OTA updates to their boxes but also publishing/providing binaries based on Kodi's source code (such as Kodi based APK app files) available on their website and forums where anyone can download them in order to try to run them on other Raspberry Pi bases boards.

The fact that they are providing builds to the public for anyone to download from their website could in theory make anyone of us that own a Raspberry Pi a user of their builds / images.