Official Commercial Apps included In Kodi?
#46
Absolutely. You're clearly not infringing copyright any more - even if the law is worded such that you have to copy the disc yourself to be legal, that wouldn't be likely to stand up in court if the end state is the same - so the torrent sites now have legitimacy. They can thus challenge any ISP blocks as preventing their legitimate business ('public cloud backup'). Add in a bit of authentication and reasonable demonstration that you have the right to download - even if the downloader has to personally warrant and hold harmless (etc.) - and the can of worms becomes even more interesting.

I wonder if there's a comparison or precedent in any other industry?
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#47
(2014-09-14, 06:55)natethomas Wrote: It's probably worth noting that I've personally been trying to convince the Netflixs of the world to let us work with them on binary addons since at least two years ago. The interest simply isn't there right now. Complain to them.
(2014-09-14, 21:34)da-anda Wrote: I wrote a letter to Lovefilm Germany once if they are interested in getting a XBMC addon done (either their side or our side while they provide APIs, etc) and got no repsonse at all.

I think it unrealistic to ask large commercial companies like Netflix and Amazon to write custom addons for Kodi/XBMC or support any addon from third-parties, binary or not.

I believe that it is especially unrealistic to expect commercial companies who do not even have an public API to support or write their own addons for Kodi/XBMC.


I really think the only way forward for such commercial apps would instead be for Kodi/XBMC to add native support for a existing framework that they already use, like HTML5.

As if and when Kodi/XBMC could support standard HTML5 apps (with EME extensions for DRM) then any existing HTML5 app should in theory just work*

Again native support for HTML5 apps is already discussed in this other thread here http://forum.xbmc.org/showthread.php?tid=25

*Sure in reality any existing HTML5 app would probably not "just work", at least not perfectly without a lot of debugging and optimizations, but in theory HTML5 is HTML5.


With streaming services such as Netflix getting more content quicker, I think that it's inevitable that an an embedded HTML5 engine is integrated into Kodi/XBMC.

Build it and they will come Angel
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#48
(2014-09-15, 11:48)Prof Yaffle Wrote: I wonder if there's a comparison or precedent in any other industry?

well, somewhat related ^^ Antiguas official pirate site I couldn't find anything newer on this, so I doubt that it was actually ever launched... but if it were, blocking it would violate WTO trade laws, right?
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#49
(2014-09-15, 10:01)Prof Yaffle Wrote: ... and then you get into the esoteric argument about downloading a copy of something you own, because the DRM makes ripping it too hard for many people versus a couple of clicks from numerous indexing sites.

Actually I don't think to act of downloading in the UK has ever been a copyright breaking act anyway, I believe it's the act of sharing that breaks copyright, so that's seeding in case of torrents or being the original uploader in the case of usenet. I've yet to read of a case where someone has gotten into trouble if downloading only from usenet or file sharing sites for example, where there is no upload element, although I'm no lawyer so don't quote me on it.
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#50
If i remember right, its as you say jjd-uk. Its not illegal to download, but its illegal to share, here in the UK.
So whereas i would be ok to download a film (as long as i can prove i actually own the original), i wouldnt be ok to upload a film, as strange as it sounds. Though i guess the ideas is, if no-one uploads illegal media, then no-one could download it.
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#51
(2014-09-15, 12:02)Hedda Wrote: ...
I really think the only way forward for such commercial apps would instead be for Kodi/XBMC to add native support for a existing framework that they already use, like HTML5.

As if and when Kodi/XBMC could support standard HTML5 apps (with EME extensions for DRM) then any existing HTML5 app should in theory just work*

Again native support for HTML5 apps is already discussed in this other thread here http://forum.xbmc.org/showthread.php?tid=25

*Sure in reality any existing HTML5 app would probably not "just work", at least not perfectly without a lot of debugging and optimizations, but in theory HTML5 is HTML5.
HTML5 playback of DRM videos won't help in getting the content into the libraries or authenticating users - so you'd still have to hack the shit out of it to scrape and import the data. I don't see how this kind of addons would be a suitable alternative to a native supported ones using public APIs by the content providers. So even with HTML5 playback you'd still need an API to get the list of available contents with a good user experience.
(Note that I haven't followed the linked thread, but I highly doubt the HTML5 DRM code is opensource - AFAIK it's not part of the opensource part of Chrome f.e.)
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#52
The html5 content protection stuff is called EME. A quote from the EME standard:
Quote:This specification does not define a content protection or Digital Rights Management system. Rather, it defines a common API that may be used to discover, select and interact with such systems as well as with simpler content encryption systems.
It's just an interface between the webpage and the drm system in the browser. It does not say how that drm system works.

(2014-08-13, 14:02)Fice Wrote: Even firefox uses a closed source DRM module: From your arstechnica link
Quote:The organization is partnering with Adobe to make the change. Mozilla will provide the hooks and APIs in Firefox to enable Web content to manipulate DRM-protected content, and Adobe will provide a closed source Content Decryption Module (CDM) to handle the decryption needs.
I dont'k know about chrome though.

even with html5 we're back to square one: we need to know how netflix proprietary drm system works and that means netflix needs to be willing to cooperate. Either by open sourcing their drm stuff or by providing the binary blob as an addon.
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#53
A nice solution to this argument would be to have Kodi as a Chromecast target - obviously no easy task, but I believe there is some open source project that has started work on this...

If you could 'cast' to Kodi as if it were a real Chromecast then surely the need for all these proprietary addons / scraping etc is void, since you can use the genuine Apple/Android apps on a phone/tablet and send to the big screen Smile
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#54
Just buy a Roku and be done with it.
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#55
(2014-09-16, 16:09)Fice Wrote: even with html5 we're back to square one: we need to know how netflix proprietary drm system works and that means netflix needs to be willing to cooperate. Either by open sourcing their drm stuff or by providing the binary blob as an addon.
That might very well be true, I'm not saying it isn't, nor am I saying it is. Benefits of having a HTML5 framework integrated into Kodi is that it should be much easier to convince giants such as Netflix to port their existing HTML5 based app to Kodi to gain a broader userbase than having to build a new customer version basically from scratch without being able to reuse existing frameworks and code.

Bonus is that having a HTML5 framework in Kodi would also allow homebrew and non-DRM using HTML5 apps in Kodi too.


Regarding embedding HTML5 framework into Kodi maybe have a look at CEF (Chromium Embedded Framework)

https://code.google.com/p/chromiumembedded/

Chromium Embedded Framework (CEF) is an open source framework for embedding a web browser control based on Google Chrome. It is a convenient way to implement an HTML5 based GUI in a desktop application or to provide browser capabilities to an application, and provides the infrastructure developers need to quickly add HTML renderer and JavaScript to a C++ project.

http://coherent-labs.com/what-developers...eir-games/

CEF insulates the user from the underlying Chromium and Blink code complexity by offering production-quality stable APIs, release branches tracking specific Chromium releases, and binary distributions.
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#56
(2014-09-15, 12:02)Hedda Wrote: I think it unrealistic to ask large commercial companies like Netflix and Amazon to write custom addons for Kodi/XBMC or support any addon from third-parties, binary or not.

I believe that it is especially unrealistic to expect commercial companies who do not even have an public API to support or write their own addons for Kodi/XBMC.

I really think the only way forward for such commercial apps would instead be for Kodi/XBMC to add native support for a existing framework that they already use, like HTML5.

As if and when Kodi/XBMC could support standard HTML5 apps (with EME extensions for DRM) then any existing HTML5 app should in theory just work*

Again native support for HTML5 apps is already discussed in this other thread here http://forum.xbmc.org/showthread.php?tid=25

*Sure in reality any existing HTML5 app would probably not "just work", at least not perfectly without a lot of debugging and optimizations, but in theory HTML5 is HTML5.

With streaming services such as Netflix getting more content quicker, I think that it's inevitable that an an embedded HTML5 engine is integrated into Kodi/XBMC.

Build it and they will come Angel
HTML5 support does not fix one of the fundamental reasons behind media centers: people want a TV-like experience from their computer equipment. They want to use a simple, small remote control to look around and play their media and control the system. Even if Kodi had HTML5 support, and even if Netflix worked in it, you would still need to use a mouse and keyboard to navigate it, because web browsers don't handle non-traditional input methods well. This defeats the purpose of having a home theater PC in the first place.

Personally, I find it "especially unrealistic" that large commercial companies like Netflix and Amazon (who I am paying by subscribing, by the way) might not exploit every possible (reasonable) avenue of delivering their content to me. Kodi has been around for MANY years, undergoes regular updates, and is a maintained product (unlike, for example, the Wii--and Netflix made a dedicated app for that). Tell me why they shouldn't be willing to produce a plugin, or at the very least, an API so that others could develop an app or plugin?

With speech recognition (Siri, Google, Alexa, Cortana, etc.) and touchscreens becoming so popular, I'm surprised more people aren't working on ways to integrate alternate forms of input into the web browsing experience. Right now, we have touch events in most modern web browsers, but that really only lets you browse the web using a mouse, keyboard, or touchscreen. Integrating a mechanism to handle alternative forms of input would not entirely address the problem I'm talking about, because Kodi would have to handle the hardware and interpreting whether it or the plugin should handle each event, but it would be a start.

Personally, I'd love to be able to write a little Python script so that when I say, "Beam me up, Kodi," it starts playing Star Trek via Netflix. We're a long way from that level of integration, though.

(2014-09-16, 17:56)Swifty Wrote: A nice solution to this argument would be to have Kodi as a Chromecast target - obviously no easy task, but I believe there is some open source project that has started work on this...

If you could 'cast' to Kodi as if it were a real Chromecast then surely the need for all these proprietary addons / scraping etc is void, since you can use the genuine Apple/Android apps on a phone/tablet and send to the big screen Smile
This would indeed be a partial solution, although I expect we would not be able to reuse any part of Chromecast: we would have to build everything from scratch (the iOS/Android apps, as well as the software to run in Kodi). I'd be very surprised if the evolution of Kodi didn't see something like this happen in the near future, though.

(2014-09-17, 02:57)crackers Wrote: Just buy a Roku and be done with it.
No, because then I can't write my own plugins to automate the video equipment in my home. (For example, thanks to a little scripting, Kodi automatically switches my projector to 3D mode when I play 3D content and back to normal when I'm done--does Roku do that?) There are very good reasons for Kodi (and OpenELEC, etc.) to exist and be popular. Not all consumers want the same thing as every other consumer on the planet.
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#57
As a side note to my above post, there is another largely overlooked side effect of doing this "properly" (integrating third-party commercial apps via API or dedicated software). Hacking playback by web scraping and trying to keep up with someone else's code is great as a stopgap, but not as a good long term solution. I subscribe to Netflix, Hulu, Amazon Prime, Pandora, and other media content providers. it would be really nice to have a single, simple search feature in Kodi that would query all of those services and play whichever has what I am looking for. I hate having to track down where the content I want is located, launch that app, find it again (in that app), just to play it.
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