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toolpunk · 2014-11-19, 18:39

It's nice to have parent folder items, but I think they should not be focused by default. When entering the library the first thing you see really shouldn't be a back button. It seems rather uninviting to me and conflicts with the idea of 'content first'.

**Memphiz** · 2014-11-20, 00:12

You really question the norton commander style of navigation here?

toolpunk · 2014-11-20, 13:04

Indeed, I do. It may be ok for a file manager, but Kodi's not a traditional file manager, nor should it try to be. There already are great tools for this and people who want to manually keep track of their library will do so. It's very much like iTunes vs. Finder or Winamp vs. Explorer.

Milhouse · 2014-11-20, 14:25

Why not just turn off the parent folder item? If you've got a working "back" button, the parent item becomes unnecessary and just clutters the screen.

toolpunk · 2014-11-20, 14:53

That's what I do personally. I'm just looking for a way to improve the experience for mouse/touch only users. It's certainly not breaking, but I don't see any advantage or reason in putting focus on the back button by default.

**Memphiz** · (This post was last modified: 2014-11-20, 15:57 by Memphiz.)

Well touch users can 2finger swipe left - mouse users can right click ... I am totally against such a change. If i navigate using a remote and search something in my (testmovie) folders i am used to beeing able to quickly enter a folder look into the file list and leave the folder again because the movie i am looking for is not in there. I can do so by two clicks with the remote now - your change would make it behave really strange imo.

You have marked a folder - you enter the folder (basically you changed the level of navigation here but NOT the marked item). That folder is kinda still marked after that (because the ".." is marked).

Not sure if you understand me. But it feels totally unlogical to me that after entering a folder the first item in the list gets marked.

I think its enough to have a setting for hiding those parent folders.

Also the reason "touch" and "mouse" i don't get. A mouse/touch user doesn't care about markings - he just points/taps to where he wants to go. The whole marking is only interesting when navigating with cursor keys.

toolpunk · 2014-11-20, 18:32

And this is precisely what I'm talking about. Imagine the average, non tech-savvy person. They don't want to, nor should they, manually manage their collection, i.e. keep it organized in separate and well structured folders. By gathering and grouping content Kodi already greatly simplifies content management, but now when said computer illiterate user enters the movies section the first thing he's greeted with is a back button. He'll most probably be at least a little surprised.

Touch and mouse users are my primary concern in this case as they are the most likely user group to keep this setting enabled. A labeled button is commonly preferred over swipes and key changes. It is true that these users can point or tap where they want to go, i.e. jump through content, but I would disagree that they don't care about the focus. In most skins the focused item is considerably bigger and in the center of view. To me it feels somewhat like a party where the host is like "Hey man, glad you made it! There's the door out." It's not very encouraging.

If you still don't agree, that's quite alright with me. It's just something I've noticed and wanted to voice my opinion on.

~~Ned Scott~~ · 2014-11-20, 22:03

I'd love to see the parent folder list option turned off and more skins have their own kind of small back button. It's always seemed weird to me to have the parent/back button appear in a list or row of icons in the same way that actual video entries are. Granted, there are some situations where it looks fine, but it would be nice to see more concepts that do something a little different. Something that helps breaks out of the typical norms of directory-based navigation, even if it's still technically using directory-based navigation.

**Memphiz** · 2014-11-21, 12:45

Well but this is not about hiding or showing the ".." its about once ".." is shown to focus something else on enter. I am not sure but iirc when i use my ipad with Kodi there is no focus at all after entering a directory (i might remember wrong though). Maybe its skin dependend too.

MassIV · 2014-11-22, 06:32

Is it really annoying everywhere though? I find it good in addon browser and if i am looking in OS folders ect. It's only when i want that cinema experience that it's a bit of a slap in the face.

What is even more annoying is needing a substring check for ".." in every list or view to handle that 'back' item.

toolpunk · 2014-11-22, 14:29

Actually Ned Scott's suggestion is far better than my original idea. Why not remove it completely and let the skinners handle it? It would get rid of a potentially confusing option in the settings menu and allow for flexible navigation solutions.

~~Ned Scott~~ · 2014-11-22, 20:24

Yeah, something where they could either choose normal "directory navigation" or let it be handled by a defined button. I don't really know much about skinning, but I also wonder if there's some standard way we could also do this for "next/previous" controls that a lot of add-ons/skins/etc use that are normally in-line with the directory listings. All of those kinds of options feel like they should be an actual button that is just outside of the list or icon grid.

"Back" is seems universal, and the software can independently turn that option visible or not for all file lists and other list options, so I imagine it would be easiest to try first.