2014-12-13, 07:51
The argument to not have animation at all is also a reasonable one. But so far nobody has made it that I'm aware of. There have merely been suggestions that it could be made.
2014-12-13, 07:52
I don't know why anyone would be offended or greatly annoyed or why anyone would leave over what's been said in this thread. Maybe this time of year puts a lot of stress on people and we should all keep that in mind?
And for the record, I am trying to use these animations to get laid. The police actually asked me to take my tablet and go home and stop bothering the nice ladies at the supermarket. OH GOD, WHY AM I SO AWKWARD, WHY WON'T ANYONE LOVE ME. Cheers!
And for the record, I am trying to use these animations to get laid. The police actually asked me to take my tablet and go home and stop bothering the nice ladies at the supermarket. OH GOD, WHY AM I SO AWKWARD, WHY WON'T ANYONE LOVE ME. Cheers!
2014-12-13, 07:59
Is it a rule of the internet that everyone has to eventually become an overly sensitive quit-monkey, negating the goodwill they have built up by taking offence where none at all has been offered?
Someone made a really cool animation, everyone thought it looked awesome. That is more than enough reason to look into how to use it as an intro (because there is literally nowhere else it could be used).
You guys have your objections to having any animation, specify them, and if they are reasonable and no work-around is available then the project either wouldnt go ahead or it would because more people valued the benefits of the change over the costs.
It is obvious that no decision has been made and that any decision would be months and months away.
That has been explicitly stated more than once, which is obvious to everybody reading these posts.
It is offensive to me that this drama has distracted from my two (read it, TWO) awesome posts on the subject.
One of which directly addresses the question of WHY the animation would be good.
Jesus! Imagine being the guy who made the animation reading this thread? He does something awesome for the project, and someone up and quits because people dared to ask how it could be used before getting final community approval for anything to be used at all!
Someone made a really cool animation, everyone thought it looked awesome. That is more than enough reason to look into how to use it as an intro (because there is literally nowhere else it could be used).
You guys have your objections to having any animation, specify them, and if they are reasonable and no work-around is available then the project either wouldnt go ahead or it would because more people valued the benefits of the change over the costs.
It is obvious that no decision has been made and that any decision would be months and months away.
That has been explicitly stated more than once, which is obvious to everybody reading these posts.
It is offensive to me that this drama has distracted from my two (read it, TWO) awesome posts on the subject.
One of which directly addresses the question of WHY the animation would be good.
Jesus! Imagine being the guy who made the animation reading this thread? He does something awesome for the project, and someone up and quits because people dared to ask how it could be used before getting final community approval for anything to be used at all!
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2014-12-13, 08:15
*sigh* Whilst I await for my account to be deleted, which isn't directly related to anything posted in this thread, can I remind you that I said I use samfisher's animation myself? Or that I've never said it shouldn't be used as a startup animation? Merely questioning why Team Kodi want a startup animation as that will determine the way the animation would be implemented. That is a valid question, and will remain so.
2014-12-13, 08:38
So you use the startup animation? Then why question why others would think about having it as the default?
The reasons to have the animation are limitless, and many are patently obvious. The technical ways to implement the animation are limited, and still need to be investigated.
The HOW defines the WHY. If the HOW cannot accommodate anything loading in the background while the animation plays, then the WHY of providing eye-candy while something loads would be defunct.
I repeat. The animation looks awesome. No other reason is needed.
The reasons NOT to have it would depend on the technical limitations and personal taste (which is why there is all the discussion of it being optional).
The reasons to have the animation are limitless, and many are patently obvious. The technical ways to implement the animation are limited, and still need to be investigated.
The HOW defines the WHY. If the HOW cannot accommodate anything loading in the background while the animation plays, then the WHY of providing eye-candy while something loads would be defunct.
I repeat. The animation looks awesome. No other reason is needed.
The reasons NOT to have it would depend on the technical limitations and personal taste (which is why there is all the discussion of it being optional).
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2014-12-13, 08:47
I disagree - strongly. The Why should always lead the How.
I can implement an animation that takes four minutes to run (the How). It's gonna look awesome, as its an extended version of samfishers great work. By your reasoning that's enough.
Alternatively, I can implement an animation which indicates to the user the application is loading and what application I'm using (the Why). It's still going to look awesome (it's the same animation, just only to give feedback the application is loading), but there's a reason (beyond just 'it looks awesome') for it being there, AS WELL AS looking awesome.
It's not worth us getting into a debate here - I'm very hopeful someone with the ability to delete my account will come along soon, but I'm a great believer that the 'Why' always leads the 'How'. That doesn't prevent something awesome being used, it just means its used with purpose.
(As for questioning it, on the Pi it is used during boot, not to delay boot. It has a purpose beyond looking awesome, whilst still doing so).
I can implement an animation that takes four minutes to run (the How). It's gonna look awesome, as its an extended version of samfishers great work. By your reasoning that's enough.
Alternatively, I can implement an animation which indicates to the user the application is loading and what application I'm using (the Why). It's still going to look awesome (it's the same animation, just only to give feedback the application is loading), but there's a reason (beyond just 'it looks awesome') for it being there, AS WELL AS looking awesome.
It's not worth us getting into a debate here - I'm very hopeful someone with the ability to delete my account will come along soon, but I'm a great believer that the 'Why' always leads the 'How'. That doesn't prevent something awesome being used, it just means its used with purpose.
(As for questioning it, on the Pi it is used during boot, not to delay boot. It has a purpose beyond looking awesome, whilst still doing so).
2014-12-13, 09:14
OK, so the WHY is that it looks cool.
What HOW could possible lead from that WHY?
None. There is no HOW that "it looks cool" informs upon. As you showed yourself.
A four minute animation is a WHAT, and the WHAT is already being considered in the other thread. This thread is about HOW.
What you are talking about is WHY NOT.
The WHY NOT informs on the HOW. If the WHY NOT cannot be eliminated by the HOW, then there can be no WHEN.
Your account should not be deleted. That's just a drama-queen move and is completely disrespectful to all the people you have conversed with over 886 posts.
I thought deleting the account would remove his comments, but I have been told that this is not the case. This makes the tenor of my response inappropriate as it is not one I would have used if I had been so informed, and of course I apologise.
I wont delete the comments as they are my words, but I will place this at the end of each.
What HOW could possible lead from that WHY?
None. There is no HOW that "it looks cool" informs upon. As you showed yourself.
A four minute animation is a WHAT, and the WHAT is already being considered in the other thread. This thread is about HOW.
What you are talking about is WHY NOT.
The WHY NOT informs on the HOW. If the WHY NOT cannot be eliminated by the HOW, then there can be no WHEN.
Your account should not be deleted. That's just a drama-queen move and is completely disrespectful to all the people you have conversed with over 886 posts.
I thought deleting the account would remove his comments, but I have been told that this is not the case. This makes the tenor of my response inappropriate as it is not one I would have used if I had been so informed, and of course I apologise.
I wont delete the comments as they are my words, but I will place this at the end of each.
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2014-12-13, 09:21
OK, as you suggest (and this is my very last post on this) lets split it into three parts: The why, the How, and the What.
As per your suggestion: The Why: Because it looks awesome. The How: Doesn't matter, so long as it displays. The What: Doesn't matter, so long as it looks awesome.
A more realistic scenario: The Why: Because we want to indicate to the user the app is loading. The How: A method that displays an animation during boot, and ends as soon as the application is ready for user input. The What: A cool animation, probably repeating.
Hope that makes my position clearer, and the best of luck to you all in finding the right balance.
As per your suggestion: The Why: Because it looks awesome. The How: Doesn't matter, so long as it displays. The What: Doesn't matter, so long as it looks awesome.
A more realistic scenario: The Why: Because we want to indicate to the user the app is loading. The How: A method that displays an animation during boot, and ends as soon as the application is ready for user input. The What: A cool animation, probably repeating.
Hope that makes my position clearer, and the best of luck to you all in finding the right balance.
2014-12-13, 09:26
(2014-12-13, 09:14)Karnagious Wrote: OK, so the WHY is that it looks cool.
What HOW could possible lead from that WHY?
None. There is no HOW that "it looks cool" informs upon. As you showed yourself.
A four minute animation is a WHAT, and the WHAT is already being considered in the other thread. This thread is about HOW.
What you are talking about is WHY NOT.
The WHY NOT informs on the HOW. If the WHY NOT cannot be eliminated by the HOW, then there can be no WHEN.
Your account should not be deleted. That's just a drama-queen move and is completely disrespectful to all the people you have conversed with over 886 posts.
The only thing disrespectul here is you talkin in an awful tone to one of the most helpful and productive python scripters here in this forum who just raises valid questions about the way you try to make decisions.
Unfledged is fully right with most of his remarks, you always have to answer the "why" before the "how".
2014-12-13, 09:44
I can't handle the absurdity of this thread anymore. The only answer to the question why that I am aware of is "because we liked the idea of an animated spash screen." That's it. That's the only answer. If you want there to be more reasons, that's fine, but that is the purpose of this thread, to generally decide how and why and where to put the stupid thing.
With that said, I feel like there appears to be an intentional desire to halt the conversation and talk about... I have absolutely no idea what.
So I'm stepping out of the conversation for now. If other people can get us on a track of progress again, excellent. If not, I guess I'll have to apologize to all the people doing great artwork for what seemed like a pretty cool idea. Good luck everyone. Feel free to PM me whenever you figure out whatever it is you are trying to figure out.
With that said, I feel like there appears to be an intentional desire to halt the conversation and talk about... I have absolutely no idea what.
So I'm stepping out of the conversation for now. If other people can get us on a track of progress again, excellent. If not, I guess I'll have to apologize to all the people doing great artwork for what seemed like a pretty cool idea. Good luck everyone. Feel free to PM me whenever you figure out whatever it is you are trying to figure out.
2014-12-13, 10:36
(2014-12-13, 09:21)Unfledged Wrote: As per your suggestion: The Why: Because it looks awesome. The How: Doesn't matter, so long as it displays. The What: Doesn't matter, so long as it looks awesome.
Sooo... you just showed how the WHY doesnt lead to the HOW. Great. That's what I said.
Is that WHY not good enough for you? Why does there need to be more WHYs?
Now, if you want to come up with some WHY NOTs then that might be productive as the WHY NOTs will determine which HOW is best.
(2014-12-13, 09:21)Unfledged Wrote: A more realistic scenario: The Why: Because we want to indicate to the user the app is loading. The How: A method that displays an animation during boot, and ends as soon as the application is ready for user input. The What: A cool animation, probably repeating.
And if that HOW was not possible, then the WHY stops becoming the WHY. Get it?
There only needs to be one WHY to start looking at the HOW.
(2014-12-13, 09:26)phil65 Wrote: The only thing disrespectul here is you talkin in an awful tone to one of the most helpful and productive python scripters here in this forum who just raises valid questions about the way you try to make decisions.
Unfledged is fully right with most of his remarks, you always have to answer the "why" before the "how".
Tone this.
If his helpfulness actually meant anything to him, he wouldnt be looking to delete all those helpful comments and productive python scripts, now would he?
He has taken offence where he really had no reason to. And the demand to delete his account is a needlessly dramatic act that you would find hard to defend.
He has searched for a reason to be offended in every response and has ignored everything else. FFS he is still talking as if the animation thing has already been decided. I had respect for him and his contributions, but his actions here have the stench of adolescent angst.
I thought deleting the account would remove his comments, but I have been told that this is not the case. This makes the tenor of my response inappropriate as it is not one I would have used if I had been so informed, and of course I apologise.
I wont delete the comments as they are my words, but I will place this at the end of each.
2014-12-13, 10:46
I will quote you again and then everyone else can decide whether Unfledged made helpful and reasonable comments or whether you made helpful and reasonable comments.
I´m out of this. Too much silliness in a thread which should have never been created.
(2014-12-13, 09:14)Karnagious Wrote: OK, so the WHY is that it looks cool.
What HOW could possible lead from that WHY?
None. There is no HOW that "it looks cool" informs upon. As you showed yourself.
A four minute animation is a WHAT, and the WHAT is already being considered in the other thread. This thread is about HOW.
What you are talking about is WHY NOT.
The WHY NOT informs on the HOW. If the WHY NOT cannot be eliminated by the HOW, then there can be no WHEN.
Your account should not be deleted. That's just a drama-queen move and is completely disrespectful to all the people you have conversed with over 886 posts.
I´m out of this. Too much silliness in a thread which should have never been created.
2014-12-13, 11:03
I dont see what your problem is other than possibly calling the demand to delete his account a drama queen move. But I will get to that.
He actually proved my first point; that the WHY didnt lead to any useful HOW.
And my second point, that the WHAT is being worked on elsewhere, still stands as the truth. I would go further now though and say that the WHY isnt changing that much, so could be considered decided for most purposes.
The third point also stands. With a standing WHY, there is no need for a WHY ALSO, so the demand for such is really presenting a WHY NOT.
The fourth point should also be uncontroversial.
Of course the WHY is important. But when you have a WHY, you dont need another one until there is equal or excessive values of WHY NOT.
Now, if you want to argue that having his account deleted isnt disrespectful then you will need to explain why, considering that deleting the account will mean:
- the questions he answered will return to being unanswered,
- the people who answered his questions will have any thanks removed,
- the people who added to his reputation are effectively being told their opinion is worthless to him,
- the people to whom he added reputation are being told that they no longer deserve it.
All when he could simply not post any more and never return to read any posts.
I thought deleting the account would remove his comments, but I have been told that this is not the case. This makes the tenor of my response inappropriate as it is not one I would have used if I had been so informed, and of course I apologise.
I wont delete the comments as they are my words, but I will place this at the end of each.
He actually proved my first point; that the WHY didnt lead to any useful HOW.
And my second point, that the WHAT is being worked on elsewhere, still stands as the truth. I would go further now though and say that the WHY isnt changing that much, so could be considered decided for most purposes.
The third point also stands. With a standing WHY, there is no need for a WHY ALSO, so the demand for such is really presenting a WHY NOT.
The fourth point should also be uncontroversial.
Of course the WHY is important. But when you have a WHY, you dont need another one until there is equal or excessive values of WHY NOT.
Now, if you want to argue that having his account deleted isnt disrespectful then you will need to explain why, considering that deleting the account will mean:
- the questions he answered will return to being unanswered,
- the people who answered his questions will have any thanks removed,
- the people who added to his reputation are effectively being told their opinion is worthless to him,
- the people to whom he added reputation are being told that they no longer deserve it.
All when he could simply not post any more and never return to read any posts.
I thought deleting the account would remove his comments, but I have been told that this is not the case. This makes the tenor of my response inappropriate as it is not one I would have used if I had been so informed, and of course I apologise.
I wont delete the comments as they are my words, but I will place this at the end of each.
2014-12-13, 11:55
Gonna go ahead and lock this thread for a while until coolness prevails.
2014-12-13, 21:24
(2014-12-13, 06:11)Karnagious Wrote: Would it be possible to have the animation skipped on any click?
Those are always the best animation intro's in games; where if you click, you move on straight away.
Give me a click, Vasili. One click only .
I like this idea, in the event we have an animatin that runs longer than needed for loading.
