Discussion - rules for this subforum

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Hitcher Offline
Team-Kodi Member
Posts: 13,371
Joined: Aug 2007
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Location: Eastleigh, UK
Post: #31
(2015-03-19 15:12)Rantanplan-1 Wrote:  A answer for a question "when will it be released" could be "as soon i think its time to" or what ever, or just ignore such questions

It's feels like you can't win though -
  • Answer and still get asked time and time again
  • Don't answer and get accused of abandoning it
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Hitcher Offline
Team-Kodi Member
Posts: 13,371
Joined: Aug 2007
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Location: Eastleigh, UK
Post: #32
(2015-03-19 15:02)TheLegendOfMart Wrote:  Your response is exactly the kind of thing people get angry at, yet somehow the mods only seem to punish the people who get angry and not the skinners who instigate it.

I've not seen any skinners respond in the same way as users.
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Jayz2K Offline
Skilled Skinner
Posts: 1,157
Joined: Aug 2014
Reputation: 47
Location: Sierck-les-bains - France
Post: #33
(2015-03-19 15:02)TheLegendOfMart Wrote:  So now we are children and the skinners are our parents who know better and are superior?

Absolutely not. I said no offense, this is just what I thought about someway, without any idea of superiority or wathever. Please quote the whole story. I apologize if you took this wrong. I'm not here to compete on who's right or not. Just trying to clear the situation.

[Skin] KOver - V1.1.0 Stable (Repo version)
[WIP] ReKOver - Skinning tool project

If I've been helpful or you like my work, hit "THANK USER" button ;) ...
(This post was last modified: 2015-03-19 15:39 by Jayz2K.)
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fantasticn Offline
Senior Member
Posts: 289
Joined: Dec 2012
Reputation: 2
Location: Germany
Post: #34
Well, that of course sounds reasonable. It surely would avoid a lot of the questions as to a release date if a developer would only come up with a posting when his project is at least in alpha or beta stage. And it also would surely help if the developer would - maby in the beginning of his thread - inform about the current status ("on hold" or "updates comming soon" etc.). But I still would not like to see a rule stating that it MUST be like that. Everybody should feel free to just post any idea he has or - like butchabay currently does - inform regulary about the current status of his skin "equilibrium" even though clearly stating that he will not release something until he thinks the skin has reached a certain stage of maturity. In return he has to live with the fact that people every once in a while may beg him for releasing something soon. But I think he can live with that. However, I have to admit that I prefer if developers are sharing their work as early as possible and not "teasing" people all too long - like e.g. jurialmunkey himself did it with Arctic Zephyr. But that should be up to the developer. All I am saying is: Developers may do as they like but users may also ask what they like as long as they both stay friendly. Nobody needs to raise a question, but nobady shall be prohibited from doing so - and nobody shall be obligated to reply, if he does not want to, but may live with the speculations that may result from not answering. Finally It is all only a matter of politeness and respect.

As to the problem of the current status of a project: Sometimes I find myself looking for an answer to a certain problem or looking for a tool, addon, plugin etc. as a solution to something. And then - after spending hours of searching - I maybe find something that seem to match the requirements or at least looks interesting for trying. But the tread maybe has 100 pages of postings (mostly regarding aspects that are of no concern to me or have already been solved again three pages further on). The last post suddenly ends in 2013 and I find myself stuck with the question: Is this project still alive? Does the lates release still work in my current environment (e.g. Helix instead of Gotham)? Does it make sense to install and begin using it, or does it mean riding a dead horse? Therefore I need to be allowed to raise questions in this respect. And if not the developer, then hopefully someone else may provide an answer to me or I will - of course - start speculating that its dead.

I think you may rightfully ban all posts that are trying to push the developer to do or release something - especially if it is done in a rude way. But a polite question like "When will you come up with a release?" or "Will we see an update for Helix?" shall defenitly be allowed. Same applies to the answer to such question. And if the developer does not have the time to continue with his project or simply does not want to do it anymore, it would be best if he clearly states it in his post. And with respect to the so-called "W.I.P"-section those projects should then be moved to some other subforum (like: "work on hold" or "old versions"). That would surely minimize any questions regarding updates on the status of the project or requests for further releases.

Once again I want to make clear, that I really, really appreciate all the good stuff you developers are creating and are openly sharing with us. I never did and never will claim anything from you besides the fact that you, too, have to be respectful and friendly, even to the "non-developers". Unfortunately not everybody has the time to improve his abilities in programming (I once was really good in Basic, Pascal and Assembler - but that is long ago). That does not necessarily mean that people are too lazy to do it, but they may have different occupations or their interests may also concern other (technical or non-technical) hobbies where they are also expected to develop some kind of knowledge in. If my car is broken I need a mechanic though I - of course - could have learned how to fix it myself.
There is so many different things where you could or even are supposed to develop some skills, but you simply cannot meet that claim everywhere. So we all end up concentrating on different things and developing different strengthes and weaknesses. That's why you might find yourself being the "noob" and "loser" in one forum or one discussion, and the "crack" or "expert" in the other.

Brgds,

FantasticN

Edit: Oooops. So many postings meanwhile. This was meant as a reply to Nessus' post no.24. Should have quoted it. But my statement already has become way to long and I apologize for that.
(This post was last modified: 2015-03-19 15:58 by fantasticn.)
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furii Offline
Fan
Posts: 623
Joined: Jun 2009
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Post: #35
(2015-03-19 14:41)jjd-uk Wrote:  The Team is open to anything that makes the lives of the skinners developing here easier.

Would changing the structure and the posting permissions of this part of the forum help at all? or is everyone happy to leave it as it is? or leave as is with amended forum rules & increased moderation?

I'm not exactly sure what's possible, but it maybe possible to change the structure to something like:

Skin Ideas subforum - An area open to everyone for posting of ideas, concepts, mockups etc.

WIP Concepts subforum - An area where only members of the skinners group can post and would be read only to everyone else. This is for early work that's deemed not ready for end users but the skinner may want to make it public to exchange ideas with other skinners, also having this early work public can act as a source of inspiration to other skinners even if it ends up abandoned.

WIP Testing subforum - An area that only members of the skinners group can create new threads and but anyone can post. Once the skinner deems something has progressed enough or wants end user feedback they create a new thread in this forum for beta testing and general user feedback.

great idea imo
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jurialmunkey Offline
Skilled Skinner
Posts: 2,238
Joined: Feb 2013
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Post: #36
(2015-03-19 15:12)Hitcher Wrote:  
(2015-03-19 14:41)jjd-uk Wrote:  The Team is open to anything that makes the lives of the skinners developing here easier.
Would changing the structure and the posting permissions of this part of the forum help at all? or is everyone happy to leave it as it is? or leave as is with amended forum rules & increased moderation?
*snip*
I like the idea of a new structure and who can create threads in them, but I don't think it's necessary to stop anyone from posting in them either.
A new structure was already canvassed. It was decided that standardising the thread tagging would be enough -- which I think works well. I specifically don't want to exclude anyone, I just want a little protection so that skinners can still freely share what they are working on without getting burnt out being bombarded with questions about a release.

What I would suggest is that Skilled Skinners' moderation privileges be extended to this forum. Then I would leave it up to each individual skinner to decide on what types of posts are acceptable. This should be clearly outlined in the first post of the thread. For example, "No ETA for this skin. Please do *not* post asking for an alpha/incomplete release or when it will be completed. Posts of this nature *will* be deleted".

Personally, it is highly unlikely I will create another publicly available skin for Kodi as I find this forum exhausting. I will continue to improve, fix bugs and maintain my two skins on the repo - but that's me done for creating new works. I've felt like this for quite a while, I just don't want to see this happen for other skinners.
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TheLegendOfMart Offline
Senior Member
Posts: 149
Joined: Dec 2011
Reputation: 1
Post: #37
Quote:DONATE
[Image: 21684.png]
Oh god, if it's such a chore then stop making skins like you said, it must be hard having all these people wanting to use your skins and donating hundreds of dollars to you for nothing, how dare they.
(This post was last modified: 2015-03-20 11:47 by TheLegendOfMart.)
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eskay993 Offline
Senior Member
Posts: 180
Joined: Nov 2014
Reputation: 2
Post: #38
(2015-03-20 11:44)TheLegendOfMart Wrote:  
Quote:DONATE
[Image: 21684.png]
Oh god, if it's such a chore then stop making skins like you said, it must be hard having all these people wanting to use your skins and donating hundreds of dollars to you for nothing, how dare they.

For nothing? I think you have just proved the exact point of this entire thread.

On topic, as a user I have no issue with deleting posts to be honest as long as I am aware of why. I don't see it as censorship - Not all deleting is censorship. Some, as in this case, is to keep things on topic and I have no issue with that. Case in point, 6 pages worth of posts removed from the fTV thread, most of which were exactly the same question. It's much cleaner now to follow, both as a user and for other skinners sharing ideas - That's a good thing for everyone.

As mention above, a note on the first post about it should suffice. Many people don't read first posts, but that's on them and they have no one else to blame. As long as you know going in what the rules are, people should have no issue with it.
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TheLegendOfMart Offline
Senior Member
Posts: 149
Joined: Dec 2011
Reputation: 1
Post: #39
Proved what point?

Just because I don't put skinners up on a pedestal and hate the elitist attitude they exude doesn't mean I am wrong.

One skinner likens the users to children who should just listen to their parents and another is all "woe is me" because people keep asking when his skins are coming out, the same people who have donated nearly $500 (which includes me).

I don't expect anything of him just because I donated but the holier than thou attitude of the skinners is grating.
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mxlance Offline
Donor
Posts: 364
Joined: May 2013
Reputation: 16
Post: #40
i just read through this thread and the thread that prompted it.

at first it appeared that this was nothing more than a simple matter of perspective and maybe a misguides sense of self entitlement.

however as i continued to read more and more it has become clear that this is all due to and is continued by a small few who wish to do nothing more than stroke their own egos by poking a stick in someones eye and then laugh at any response. some people just enjoy fighting or more accurately causing fights.

if they are to disruptive then a private warning from the moderators and eventual banning as a last resort would not seam unreasonable to me.

the vast majority on this forum have proved themselves respectful and helpful. that goes for skinners and fans as well.

this community does not need to lose anymore talented and gifted contributors do to a few who give little or nothing and demand everything.
(This post was last modified: 2015-03-21 12:48 by mxlance.)
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furii Offline
Fan
Posts: 623
Joined: Jun 2009
Reputation: 20
Post: #41
(2015-03-20 11:44)TheLegendOfMart Wrote:  
Quote:DONATE
[Image: 21684.png]
Oh god, if it's such a chore then stop making skins like you said, it must be hard having all these people wanting to use your skins and donating hundreds of dollars to you for nothing, how dare they.

i specifically donated to both him and hitcher the other day because a) they created great skins and b) they deserve it for having to deal with people like you.
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TheLegendOfMart Offline
Senior Member
Posts: 149
Joined: Dec 2011
Reputation: 1
Post: #42
Yeah sorry for not worshipping the very ground they walk on, I am grateful for their skins but they shouldn't be put up on a pedestal just because they make skins.
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furii Offline
Fan
Posts: 623
Joined: Jun 2009
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Post: #43
(2015-03-20 21:24)TheLegendOfMart Wrote:  Yeah sorry for not worshipping the very ground they walk on, I am grateful for their skins but they shouldn't be put up on a pedestal just because they make skins.

sorry but "donating hundreds of dollars to you for nothing" sure doesn't sound grateful to me. their donations wouldn't even be minimum wage for the hundreds of hours of work they put into their skins.
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jurialmunkey Offline
Skilled Skinner
Posts: 2,238
Joined: Feb 2013
Reputation: 207
Post: #44
(2015-03-20 11:44)TheLegendOfMart Wrote:  
Quote:DONATE[/B]
[Image: 21684.png]
Oh god, if it's such a chore then stop making skins like you said, it must be hard having all these people wanting to use your skins and donating hundreds of dollars to you for nothing, how dare they.
Pretty sure you're just trolling now.
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Skribbler1 Offline
Member
Posts: 74
Joined: Sep 2014
Reputation: 0
Post: #45
(2015-03-21 01:07)jurialmunkey Wrote:  
(2015-03-20 11:44)TheLegendOfMart Wrote:  
Quote:DONATE[/B]
[Image: 21684.png]
Oh god, if it's such a chore then stop making skins like you said, it must be hard having all these people wanting to use your skins and donating hundreds of dollars to you for nothing, how dare they.
Pretty sure you're just trolling now.

Seems sincere to me
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