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2015-07-05, 17:28
(This post was last modified: 2015-07-05, 17:30 by JC_Yang.)
Kodi 14.2 Helix, a tv box with amlogic s805+ android 4.4.2 with 1GB ram, branded MXQ.
It's pretty good(no problem) when I play "Blade Runner" final cut blu-ray(VC-1 AP@L3), but when I play "Inception"(same VC-1 AP@L3), it's pretty laggy...
what's wrong, guys?
Isn't VC-1 hardware decoded already by S805 and well support by Kodi?
Both films are wrapped in mkv... it's weird, anyone know the cause?
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More specifically, have anyone ever successfully play "Inception" bluray in a box with s805 built-in?
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I believe VC-1 is not supported on most Android devices. It's an extra license that a lot of companies just avoid.
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2015-07-06, 02:35
(This post was last modified: 2015-07-06, 02:35 by JC_Yang.)
It's weird, because "blade runner" play so well in it, which is also a film encoded in VC-1.
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Just a guess, but unless you ripped/encoded them are you sure the less playable file is really encoded exactly the same way? It's not some minor difference that does not show up in description, or that the file was properly done -can you play it without fault on other hardware with KODI? If it's just one example, not representative of a larger group, then... What about Mbps/raw file size vs. play time? Does the laggy file have a higher bitrate? Maybe it's maxing out your hardware?
Two things that are equal are not always the same... This concept sometimes illustrates the difference between wisdom and intelligence rather handily some days. ;-) It helps to think of a unit of lead's mass vs. an equal unit of feather's mass... They are equal in your frame of reference(mass), but hardly the same despite what the scales indicate.
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2015-07-06, 07:41
(This post was last modified: 2015-07-06, 07:42 by technisol.)
I dunno, did a little Googling(hold on while I pin on my Instant Dunce badge) and VC-1 AP L3 at up to 45Mbps maximum bitrate is maybe stretching things a teensie tiny little bit... poor Lloyd. Just how many Mbps are you pumping through there with these particular files,Tex? I realize one works, one doesn't as well, but there are other possible variations in VC-1 AP L3 that may or may not be used in both files, I guess. Maybe BladeRunner just works and Inception pushes it past a hard limit?
You aren't driving a Porsche (me neither: S802 @2GHz, granted, different cores), they may be more like fairly recent model Lincoln-Continentals, but they are not exactly the high end big guns, maybe mid end guns so far that speak Lloyd's language...
Maybe 'our' resident Odroid guy will have something to add? I've no idea how far he's explored with his S805 based board, but he seems pretty happy so far with only minor niggles. EDIT: He snuck in before I finished typing... ;-)
On that Isengard screen fit problem, maybe try going to android launcher and settings and changing HDMI from auto to manual and trying a couple settings? I seem to recall one posted that taking it off auto and putting it on 1080P@60 did the trick with a similar issue even though it said it had selected that on auto... Plenty of posts about that stuff around the last few pages of forum.
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I don't know, but I suspect you're hitting a wall or a limit, maybe not the hardware decoder limit, but maybe pushing another part of the system like RAM, Buss speed, Processor clock (not sure if they have a DMA structure or processor contributes to shuttling data around or could get in the way of it while VPU/GPU is trying to go like a bat out of hell, etc). -just haven't gotten that in depth with hardware that seems to work fine for most files which are generally FAR lower bit rate and of more than acceptable quality in my eyes -granted I haven't seen 4K output from my box yet. I'm guessing you're maybe pushing the limits, or near the limits of a $50-75USD device... From my recent Googling, in tests written about by Microsoft, the guys who developed WMV9 / VC-1, indicated that head to head against H.264 they were ranked better only in noise and that they could more quickly decode VC-1, but that was a while ago and I'm guessing the H.264 hardware decoding has improved greatly and may be faster by far for the new AMLogic chipsets than whatever they were running it on back then. (2000-2005 ish, IIRC)
Anybody with hard numbers I'd love to hear them... Kind of fun to see just what it'll do, even if I think you're probably way in excess of what's required to make any further visual difference at 1920x1080P@60Hz... You may have gathered I am not a numbers just for the sake of numbers guy. If at a certain point increasing bitrate provides no necessary or discernable difference for normal viewing, no frame by frame, blah-blah-bah, that's about where I'd call it a day. Granted, I can see where it'd be nice to expect a simple Blu-ray rip to play without having to recode at a lower rate.
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2015-07-08, 05:55
(This post was last modified: 2015-07-08, 05:55 by JC_Yang.)
VC-1 is in theory easier to decode/require less computation power compare to H.264(for example, VC-1 use a less efficiency, hence less complex entropy coder than CABAC), but in real world, the fastest multithread H.264 *software* decoder is faster than the fastest VC-1 *software* decoder already, years ago. and that's not the point here. These were statements made 10 years ago and only anyone who use a 10 years old CPU to *software* decode it should consider.
Back to my further investigation, this small S805 can eat probably any H.264 clips I throw at it, I tested a 40Mbps Samsung demo and a 60Mbps JellyFish demo, it play them without any problem, very smooth and fast. A hardware decoding unit which can handle 60Mbps H.264 would not have problem handling a less than 30Mbps VC-1, in theory.
Maybe the firmware should be blame for? Some inefficiency treatment when dealing with VC-1 might be the problem or there are design flaws in the VC-1 decoder unit...
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2015-07-08, 07:10
(This post was last modified: 2015-07-08, 07:26 by technisol.)
I'm afraid it's all conjecture without hard numbers...
I am not conversant with any claims made by those who designed or tested the hardware decoding for AMLogic re: VC-1, so I will not indulge in claims of "in theory". If we(EITHER OF US) had hard numbers from AMLogic then it becomes worth investigating, I suppose. In all fairness, AMLogic support is quite new in KODI, so maybe there are options to be explored in terms of how the hardware decoding is set up, perhaps various parameters that can be passed, etc. -Frankly, I have no idea. I'd say if you want to know more you need to investigate the docs for the SOC employed and see what the claims are... I just found out recently that while several AML SOCs offer H.265 hardware decoding support, only certain formats are covered, and with less capability than Main 10 and apparently that will be supported in the next version of the AML hardware decoder. Specifics are not always easy to find when people are just slapping whatever acronyms or labels on product to push it, and not necessarily detailing to what degree a "standard" is supported and this is still sort of cutting/bleeding edge stuff in terms of hardware decoding and support, IMHO. So far, I remain pretty impressed with what we're getting out of a $50-75 item running Android and all the great work behind KODI!
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Koying
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I wouldn't say amlogic support is new in Kodi. It's been there for a while now.
Now, AFAIK, VC1 is a dying codec, so support for it is probably low considering the manufacturers still have to pay a license fee for it...
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2015-07-08, 08:59
(This post was last modified: 2015-07-08, 09:00 by technisol.)
Oh, my bad, I was under the impression AMLogic hardware decoding support just came about a couple of versions back as there were test builds like Stane's 13.2 and your own work in a few threads I ran into a few months back, come to think they may have been experimental to support 4K...
