[split] NVIDIA Shield (Android TV set-top box): Electrical matters discussion
#16
(2015-07-18, 16:24)oWarchild Wrote:
(2015-07-18, 16:18)noggin Wrote: However I just found this : https://youtu.be/HPJzkdNkxvk?t=257 which shows the unboxing of a Shield Console. The time code I've linked to (4'17" in) shows a close up of the PSU. (It's 19V at 2.1A)

It clearly has the double insulated logo (two squares inside each other - http://www.double-insulated.com ) on the right hand side above the crossed-out waste bin and next to the little house logo.

Thanks @noggin! Today I've learned something and now I'm more confident about the adapter converter. Wikipedia also has a nice explanation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appliance_...s#Class_II.

That unboxing video also clearly flags 100-240V, 50-60Hz on the PSU - so you should be covered.

I wonder if someone will find neat UK, EU, Aus slide in adaptor plates that are compatible with the PSU to remove the need for an external plug adaptor?

The biggest problem I find with US to UK adaptors is that the US plug design is so mechanically poor (two flat pins with no friction and poor mechanical support) that it is nowhere near as reliable as a UK 3-pin or 2-pin EU Europlug or Schuko-or similar style 3-connection connector.
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#17
(2015-07-18, 16:28)noggin Wrote: I wonder if someone will find neat UK, EU, Aus slide in adaptor plates that are compatible with the PSU to remove the need for an external plug adaptor?

Would love that, I'll search on ebay.

(2015-07-18, 16:28)noggin Wrote: The biggest problem I find with US to UK adaptors is that the US plug design is so mechanically poor (two flat pins with no friction and poor mechanical support) that it is nowhere near as reliable as a UK 3-pin or 2-pin EU Europlug or Schuko-or similar style 3-connection connector.

I agree, my Nexus power adapter had to be taped to the US->EU converter as it was always falling off.
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#18
(2015-07-18, 16:18)noggin Wrote:
(2015-07-18, 15:27)krldot Wrote: Sorry about the fork Tongue But im not a native english speaker
Thats not the Adapter of the shield and its not class 2 or above so its not double insulated from what i know.
Also its not a low powered android box because it can reach ~25W at 110v

I think the PSU I linked to is for the Shield tablet not the console.

However I just found this : https://youtu.be/HPJzkdNkxvk?t=257 which shows the unboxing of a Shield Console. The time code I've linked to (4'17" in) shows a close up of the PSU. (It's 19V at 2.1A)

It clearly has the double insulated logo (two squares inside each other - http://www.double-insulated.com ) on the right hand side above the crossed-out waste bin and next to the little house logo. It has, like many adaptors of this kind these days, a slide in country-specific plug adaptor, which would allow a UK, EU, Aus etc. replacement plug-in adaptor to be used instead. It also clearly has only two metal contacts. There isn't an unconnected earth contact. A UK slide-in adaptor used to replace the US one would have a plastic earth pin. An EU adaptor would probably just be a Europlug 2-pin style one.

But still double-insulated doesnt prevent you from frying the device - it only prevents you from from getting shocked
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#19
(2015-07-18, 17:57)krldot Wrote:
(2015-07-18, 16:18)noggin Wrote:
(2015-07-18, 15:27)krldot Wrote: Sorry about the fork Tongue But im not a native english speaker
Thats not the Adapter of the shield and its not class 2 or above so its not double insulated from what i know.
Also its not a low powered android box because it can reach ~25W at 110v

I think the PSU I linked to is for the Shield tablet not the console.

However I just found this : https://youtu.be/HPJzkdNkxvk?t=257 which shows the unboxing of a Shield Console. The time code I've linked to (4'17" in) shows a close up of the PSU. (It's 19V at 2.1A)

It clearly has the double insulated logo (two squares inside each other - http://www.double-insulated.com ) on the right hand side above the crossed-out waste bin and next to the little house logo. It has, like many adaptors of this kind these days, a slide in country-specific plug adaptor, which would allow a UK, EU, Aus etc. replacement plug-in adaptor to be used instead. It also clearly has only two metal contacts. There isn't an unconnected earth contact. A UK slide-in adaptor used to replace the US one would have a plastic earth pin. An EU adaptor would probably just be a Europlug 2-pin style one.

But still double-insulated doesnt prevent you from frying the device - it only prevents you from from getting shocked

Yes - but earthing doesn't prevent you from frying the device either. And you can't earth the device because it is double insulated and doesn't have an earth connection...

I thought the point you were making was that using a US to EU/UK/Aus type 2 pin adaptor would make you more susceptible to frying the device than using one with an earth pin, or using it in the US. Neither of these are the case. It is likely the device will be just as susceptible with a native EU/UK/Aus connector on the mains adaptor (as it is likely to be sold with in the UK/EU/Aus) as it would be through a decently designed plug converter.

Surge protection externally will protect the device from surges caused by the incoming power to your house or flat, or - I guess - a fault in your house or flat wiring. I think they are more common, along with domestic UPS solutions, in regions with poor quality mains supplies. Here in the UK we don't really have that many issues with power surges, and surge protection is seen as a 'sell it to the gullible' product, a bit like Monster HDMI cables.

You don't need surge protection more because you are using a 2pin converter. From your original post I thought you were suggesting that because it was an imported product using a 2 pin adaptor it was more likely to need surge protection.

I HAVE seen electrical equipment fried once in the past, when the electricity company messed up some work outside my dad's house. He was fully refunded for his Fax machine (it was the 80s...) and clock radio that both failed by the power company.
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#20
If I'm understanding correctly frying the device due to a surge is a risk that affects any device, in any place in the world, not connected to a surge protector. And that risk is not increased by connecting the US power adapter to a European power socket using a simple US->EU converter.

@noggin, I was born in the 80's Big Grin
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#21
(2015-07-18, 18:11)oWarchild Wrote: If I'm understanding correctly frying the device due to a surge is a risk that affects any device, in any place in the world, not connected to a surge protector. And that risk is not increased by connecting the US power adapter to a European power socket using a simple US->EU converter.

@noggin, I was born in the 80's Big Grin

That's correct. Unless you have additional protection which is only included in a scarce amount of devices every device in the world is vulnerable for surges. Either by power companies of lightning.
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#22
(2015-07-18, 18:06)noggin Wrote:
(2015-07-18, 17:57)krldot Wrote:
(2015-07-18, 16:18)noggin Wrote: I think the PSU I linked to is for the Shield tablet not the console.

However I just found this : https://youtu.be/HPJzkdNkxvk?t=257 which shows the unboxing of a Shield Console. The time code I've linked to (4'17" in) shows a close up of the PSU. (It's 19V at 2.1A)

It clearly has the double insulated logo (two squares inside each other - http://www.double-insulated.com ) on the right hand side above the crossed-out waste bin and next to the little house logo. It has, like many adaptors of this kind these days, a slide in country-specific plug adaptor, which would allow a UK, EU, Aus etc. replacement plug-in adaptor to be used instead. It also clearly has only two metal contacts. There isn't an unconnected earth contact. A UK slide-in adaptor used to replace the US one would have a plastic earth pin. An EU adaptor would probably just be a Europlug 2-pin style one.

But still double-insulated doesnt prevent you from frying the device - it only prevents you from from getting shocked

Yes - but earthing doesn't prevent you from frying the device either. And you can't earth the device because it is double insulated and doesn't have an earth connection...

I thought the point you were making was that using a US to EU/UK/Aus type 2 pin adaptor would make you more susceptible to frying the device than using one with an earth pin, or using it in the US. Neither of these are the case. It is likely the device will be just as susceptible with a native EU/UK/Aus connector on the mains adaptor (as it is likely to be sold with in the UK/EU/Aus) as it would be through a decently designed plug converter.

Surge protection externally will protect the device from surges caused by the incoming power to your house or flat, or - I guess - a fault in your house or flat wiring. I think they are more common, along with domestic UPS solutions, in regions with poor quality mains supplies. Here in the UK we don't really have that many issues with power surges, and surge protection is seen as a 'sell it to the gullible' product, a bit like Monster HDMI cables.

You don't need surge protection more because you are using a 2pin converter. From your original post I thought you were suggesting that because it was an imported product using a 2 pin adaptor it was more likely to need surge protection.

I HAVE seen electrical equipment fried once in the past, when the electricity company messed up some work outside my dad's house. He was fully refunded for his Fax machine (it was the 80s...) and clock radio that both failed by the power company.

Youre completely missing the point here Tongue
I said - buy a surge protected power strip just in case something happens!
Its an expensive device $199 + $50 shipping outside of us + he will have to pay VAT + customs making it in the $300-350 range for the 16gb version. My 16gb version came at a total of $400!!!
The missing ground/earth pin is just an extra that adds as an issue for which he should buy protection just in case
Spending $15 more for even the cheapest surge protected power strip is worth it because the chances of a power surge or a short circuit do exist
Frying a $300-400 device just because you didnt spend $15 is in my opinion insane
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#23
there are plenty of devices which are sold in the UK and have missing earths, they are usually double insulated and although the plug will have the earth pin, inside there will be no earth connection. If the shield is double insulated then there should really be no need for all this extra protection, especially in the UK
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#24
(2015-07-19, 12:24)krldot Wrote: Youre completely missing the point here Tongue
I said - buy a surge protected power strip just in case something happens!
Its an expensive device $199 + $50 shipping outside of us + he will have to pay VAT + customs making it in the $300-350 range for the 16gb version. My 16gb version came at a total of $400!!!
In my original post I said In a few days my brother is travelling to the US so I have the rare opportunity to get some hardware at US prices. The final price will come at $214 plus a beer for my brother (note that people travelling by plane are customs exempt up to €430).

(2015-07-19, 12:24)krldot Wrote: The missing ground/earth pin is just an extra that adds as an issue for which he should buy protection just in case
This adds no issue because the PSU is double insulated, read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appliance_...s#Class_II: A Class II or double insulated electrical appliance is one which has been designed in such a way that it does not require a safety connection to electrical earth (ground).

(2015-07-19, 12:24)krldot Wrote: Spending $15 more for even the cheapest surge protected power strip is worth it because the chances of a power surge or a short circuit do exist
Frying a $300-400 device just because you didnt spend $15 is in my opinion insane
@krldot, I don't know where you live but in my over 30 years of existence I never heard of surges destroying devices in Portugal. No one here uses surge protection. @noggin, UK, only seen it happening once in the 80s at his father's house for which his father was fully refunded for the damages. So it seems to me that the odds of being hit by a surge and getting my electrical devices fried (without a refund) are similar to being hit by a lightning.

Anyway, the bottom line is that the SATV PSU is a double insulated 100-240V, 50-60Hz and for people wanting to use it in Europe they only require a simple adapter that converts the tip into one compatible with their country's sockets. Surge protection is optional and is a different matter entirely. With that in mind this thread is going off topic, so let's get back to discussing the SATV itself. Wink
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#25
(2015-07-19, 12:24)krldot Wrote: The missing ground/earth pin is just an extra that adds as an issue for which he should buy protection just in case
I'm not sure why you keep mentioning earths. The presence of an earth pin on an appliance doesn't indicate increased surge protection. It indicates a requirement for an earth connection for electrical safety. Double Insulated devices don't require this as they are designed to be electrically safe in different ways. That was my point. The presence or absence of an earth pin doesn't tell you anything about surge protection.

Assuming something with an earth pin is more likely to survive a power surge is a false assumption.

Quote:Spending $15 more for even the cheapest surge protected power strip is worth it because the chances of a power surge or a short circuit do exist
Frying a $300-400 device just because you didnt spend $15 is in my opinion insane

Yes - if you live in an area with poor quality mains power then surge protection is valid for any device - and this doesn't change because it is imported and used via a plug adaptor. You aren't more likely to need it because it is imported, any more than I would if I plug my UK Macbook PSU into a US mains socket in a US hotel via a 2-pin adaptor. (Macbook PSUs are double insulated and don't have an earth pin, as they use Figure-of-8 two-pin mains connections)

If you live in a region with poor quality mains then $15 is money well spent for sure. If you live in a region where power surges are unheard of - why bother?
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#26
(2015-07-19, 13:19)noggin Wrote:
(2015-07-19, 12:24)krldot Wrote: The missing ground/earth pin is just an extra that adds as an issue for which he should buy protection just in case
I'm not sure why you keep mentioning earths. The presence of an earth pin on an appliance doesn't indicate increased surge protection. It indicates a requirement for an earth connection for electrical safety. Double Insulated devices don't require this as they are designed to be electrically safe in different ways. That was my point. The presence or absence of an earth pin doesn't tell you anything about surge protection.

Assuming something with an earth pin is more likely to survive a power surge is a false assumption.

Quote:Spending $15 more for even the cheapest surge protected power strip is worth it because the chances of a power surge or a short circuit do exist
Frying a $300-400 device just because you didnt spend $15 is in my opinion insane

Yes - if you live in an area with poor quality mains power then surge protection is valid for any device - and this doesn't change because it is imported and used via a plug adaptor. You aren't more likely to need it because it is imported, any more than I would if I plug my UK Macbook PSU into a US mains socket in a US hotel via a 2-pin adaptor. (Macbook PSUs are double insulated and don't have an earth pin, as they use Figure-of-8 two-pin mains connections)

If you live in a region with poor quality mains then $15 is money well spent for sure. If you live in a region where power surges are unheard of - why bother?


Double insulation prevents you from getting shocked. NOTHING ELSE.
If you buy a surge protected power strip it will prevent you from
A) power surges
B) short circuit on the same breaker
Even regions with unheard power surges & never had issues eventually have issues and then a lot of people cry because they didnt spend $15

I dont know why this thread is reaching at the point of - why spend $15 more just to be safe on a $214 device.... For me thats a pointless discussion
Do whatever you like , i wont post any further - but dont cry when something that you were warned might happen happens.

PS if you are thinking about getting health insurrance - dont. its the same thing. the chances are the same. it might or might not happen.
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#27
Guys, I've split off your (interesting) electrical discussions, as they were a tad out-of-scope
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#28
Thanks noggin.
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#29
(2015-07-19, 13:47)krldot Wrote: PS if you are thinking about getting health insurrance - dont. its the same thing. the chances are the same. it might or might not happen.

I live in the UK. We have universal healthcare. I don't have health insurance. (Though I do pay taxes)

Sounds like we have better mains supplies as well.

The original quote I took issue with was
Quote:Also dont forget that in the US they dont have ground pin on the adapter so you need to probably buy a power fork with good protection Smile

The point is that the presence or absence of an earth connection on an EU, Aus, UK or US device is not related to the requirement for surge protection. Were you suggesting you didn't need a 'power fork with good protection' if there WAS an earth pin? Because that is not a relevant point - earthing isn't about surge protection, it is about safety. If you have power surges then all equipment - irrespective of the presence or absence of an earth connection - will need protection.

Surges really are very unusual in the UK. And surge protection is not a big thing here. I know it IS in other countries, and if I lived in a country where the power was dodgy I'd power my TV, Laptop, iPhone and pretty much everything through surge protection. But I'm not putting a surge protection device in every outlet in my home. Because there really is no need. It's so rare here, and almost always caused by the power supplier. In those cases you can claim from them. As my father did in the 80s.
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#30
This whole argument for surge protection is surely a general one and not specific to the shield
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[split] NVIDIA Shield (Android TV set-top box): Electrical matters discussion0