[natethomas]

We never pretended to be you, so don't say that just to make whoever reads it confused and think it's true. At no point have we ever claimed to be part of, affiliated, or endorsed by Team-Kodi or the XBMC Foundation or anything of the sort.

It's really disappointing how clearly you take us for idiots.

[spank]

thank you for your reply as i was really wondering from your point of view why such a strong reaction to some with minor stuff on it that is at-least trying to work with you to get it resolved yet none to others that was really offending.

The fact that you think pretending to be us and asking for donations because of the Kodi 15 release is "minor stuff" contributes to my theory that you are a sock account.

sorry but this is no pretend/sock account, i am pretending to be no one just a kodi fan.

[Eleazar Coding]

I'm sorry again that you think I am malicious. I don't take anyone to be idiots, as I said before, I respect you guys and have nothing but love for you guys. If you're going to go ahead and claim we pretend to be you, back it up with proof by demonstrating one instance.

As for the "XBMC Addons for Kodi" you guys clearly said in your trademark policy that it saying "Addons for Kodi" is allowed, we've since added the word "Unofficial" to that phrase in order to further clarify things.

Now again, it's not our fault if other parties made mistakes and mistook us for you, it's a result of the fact that the majority of users use Kodi for the add--on functionality, not as an HTPC system.

I understand completely the need to distance yourselves from us, and I'm willing to do everything I can to help with that, but a little respect goes a long way.

I do truly think that putting a disclaimer bar at the top of your site temporarily like we did on ours would help to alleviate confusion, the users who are confused are confused because they don't know better and are just looking for a free TV fix.

PS: It's funny that you'd ban the one guy who defended us, I looked at the post he was banned for, he was actually praising Lunatixz and you said you banned him for breaking either Forum Rules or the Piracy Policy.

[BobCratchett]

;
I'm sorry again that you think I am malicious. I don't take anyone to be idiots, as I said before, I respect you guys and have nothing but love for you guys. If you're going to go ahead and claim we pretend to be you, back it up with proof by demonstrating one instance.

As for the "XBMC Addons for Kodi" you guys clearly said in your trademark policy that it saying "Addons for Kodi" is allowed, we've since added the word "Unofficial" to that phrase in order to further clarify things.

Now again, it's not our fault if other parties made mistakes and mistook us for you, it's a result of the fact that the majority of users use Kodi for the add--on functionality, not as an HTPC system.

I understand completely the need to distance yourselves from us, and I'm willing to do everything I can to help with that, but a little respect goes a long way.

I do truly think that putting a disclaimer bar at the top of your site temporarily like we did on ours would help to alleviate confusion, the users who are confused are confused because they don't know better and are just looking for a free TV fix.

PS: It's funny that you'd ban the one guy who defended us, I looked at the post he was banned for, he was actually praising Lunatixz and you said you banned him for breaking either Forum Rules or the Piracy Policy.

I know I'm hated by certain individuals around here - for those who aren't sure, I used to be known as 'Unfledged' - but are you honestly suggesting that the team here needs to put a banner on their site to ensure users don't mistake them for you? At the point where such a thing becomes necessary - whether in your mind or otherwise - do you not think that there might be a confusion in users minds between this site (and what is the official site) and yours? And, since this site actually provides Kodi and no add-ons, don't you think that confusion might actually be coming from your site?

(Edit - and since the whole argument is that users are confusing your site for the official, doesn't suggesting a banner to mitigate such misunderstanding implicitly imply that you know such misunderstanding is happening? And, since such misunderstanding is that users are mistaking your site for the official, aren't you admitting that your site - not this - needs changes?)

(Another edit - and don't you think it might be the teams problem that you've had to do such to dis-identify your site from the official by adding a banner notification, assuming random internet users understand what the XBMC Foundation is, of course - which the vast majority won't...)

(And for the Team Kodi members who are concerned, don't worry - I'm not about to become a regular poster again. It's just that Eleazar's lack-of-practical-logic - even-against-such-idiots-as-Ronie - amused me hugely, and pointing out my previous forum ID hopefully proves that I'm not unecessarily biased in this debate.)

[Eleazar Coding]

The confusion is caused by the fact that the main use of Kodi for the majority of users is addon-centric, not HTPC related in any way. This isn't our fault at all. XBMC has been associated with add-ons since long before your piracy policy was created.

If a user buys a device preprogrammed with add-ons, and then Google's "Kodi Forums" or what not, they find this site, and then naturally ask for help with Kodi at this site, if you made it more clear that you are against third party add-ons (such as with a red disclaimer bar at the top of the window) or a clear warning before allowing posting for new users, it wouldn't be happening.

The confusion is happening at your site, not ours.

Again, I'm sorry for this and I'm really trying to minimize the use of the word "Kodi" on our site, out of respect for you guys. Making us look like the bad guys (without any real form of proof whatsoever) is just bullyish and demeaning. We help users too, users who enjoy both of our services which go hand in hand, although have no affiliation with one another.

I'll end this again by saying that I love and respect you guys and hope you can come to your senses and actually have a real conversation (in private because they bureaucratic forum threads go nowhere - ever) so that we can work together towards correcting the perception that Kodi is a content app as opposed to an awesome open source media player that has nothing to do with content.

Let's make something friendly work, I only want the best for the XBMC Foundation, but for our users (and supporters of Kodi) as well.

[BobCratchett]

I'm sorry again that you think I am malicious. I don't take anyone to be idiots, as I said before, I respect you guys and have nothing but love for you guys. If you're going to go ahead and claim we pretend to be you, back it up with proof by demonstrating one instance.

As for the "XBMC Addons for Kodi" you guys clearly said in your trademark policy that it saying "Addons for Kodi" is allowed, we've since added the word "Unofficial" to that phrase in order to further clarify things.

Now again, it's not our fault if other parties made mistakes and mistook us for you, it's a result of the fact that the majority of users use Kodi for the add--on functionality, not as an HTPC system.

I understand completely the need to distance yourselves from us, and I'm willing to do everything I can to help with that, but a little respect goes a long way.

I do truly think that putting a disclaimer bar at the top of your site temporarily like we did on ours would help to alleviate confusion, the users who are confused are confused because they don't know better and are just looking for a free TV fix.

PS: It's funny that you'd ban the one guy who defended us, I looked at the post he was banned for, he was actually praising Lunatixz and you said you banned him for breaking either Forum Rules or the Piracy Policy.

The confusion is caused by the fact that the main use of Kodi for the majority of users is addon-centric, not HTPC related in any way. This isn't our fault at all. XBMC has been associated with add-ons since long before your piracy policy was created.

If a user buys a device preprogrammed with add-ons, and then Google's "Kodi Forums" or what not, they find this site, and then naturally ask for help with Kodi at this site, if you made it more clear that you are against third party add-ons (such as with a red disclaimer bar at the top of the window) or a clear warning before allowing posting for new users, it wouldn't be happening.

The confusion is happening at your site, not ours.

As someone who very much isn't a Team-Kodi member - and who has regularly argued against said team, I'm very willing to accept this. Given some proof, of course.

So, you say people's confusion of Kodi as being a source for potentially illegal content (that's what you mean, right? If not, please do clarify) comes from sources here, not at your site? Great! Which sources? Where, on this site, would users get the idea that Kodi is a source for illegal content? After all, you say:-

The confusion is happening at your site, not ours.

If you DON'T mean that users get the idea that Kodi is a source for potentially illegal content from this site, then please explain exactly what you do mean (And please don't get me wrong on this - I don't agree with the argument you've provided because, let's be frank, you haven't provided one. But I'm also not a Team XBMC member and am in no danger of becoming one, so I'm someone you genuinely can convince if you can come up with an actual argument with (and this is what you're lacking at this stage) actual evidence.

Edit: And if your evidence is the result of a Google search then that works against you, as that's based on the SEO of the site. If you've optimised your SEO so that it appears above this in Google search results, I take that simply as evidence that you are misleading users, unless you can provide better explanation And one more edit for good measure, you seem to accept that users will be sent to your site (SEO), but then claim that this site should do more to make it clear it's against 3rd party add-ons. I'd be interested to hear what you feel this site should do about 3rd party add-ons (which may not be illegal, and let's be honest here - this site has a great policy regarding its official repo) which aren't posted to this forum? Or what is this forum doing wrong about posts regarding potentially illegal sources that are posted here?

[Eleazar Coding]

I'm not saying the root of the confusion comes from sources here, I'm saying the root of the confusion comes from the fact that since the beginning Kodi has been used by the majority of users for addon-centric reasons; this public majority has caused confusion. If the majority of Kodi users used Kodi specifically for an app that delivers Pepsi to your door, they would be coming here asking about Pepsi.

I'm more than willing to change any text that is could be construed as misleading, just tell me where it is and it'll be changed right away. I do stand by the fact however that we've done nothing to purposeful to mislead anyone. They are mislead because all they care about (or know about) is Kodi's addon functionality, and nothing about normal HTPC setups.

We're not using any crazy deceitful SEO tactics like people are saying, we have very little SEO work done and it's quite compliant with the trademark policy, if something isn't I'll gladly fix it as it wasn't meant to confuse anyone in the first place.

[BobCratchett]

I'm not saying the root of the confusion comes from sources here

Yes you are - after all, you said:-

The confusion is happening at your site, not ours.

(That's a hell of a quote, btw, and if you don't come to regret saying that I'll be very surprised!)

Edit: Y'know, I'm happy to delete everything else I put in that message, because you're still not giving any evidence for your arguments, and actually you're invalidating what you have said. I'm still not a Team XBMC fan, but at this point you don't appear to be putting forward any counter-argument,

Edi 2: And lets just address the SEO stuff too, for a moment - after all, we seem to be completely discrediting you, so we may as well finish For the record, no-one in this thread has accused you of abusing SEO. It was merely said that if your search results were at the top to due to SEO tactics, then that would be evidence of you using SEO tactics. Any issue with that?

[Eleazar Coding]

I didn't say the "root of the confusion" comes from here, I said that the confusion is occuring (happening) here at this site. It would help if this site too did more to plaster warnings in order to avoid the natural confusion that occurs from the primary use of the software by most users. I can't do anything about what users at this site think.

There are no sketchy SEO tactics and we're not at the top of results either, our site is very simple and uses nothing fancy to promote (other than being friendly and accomodating to all users), other sites with Kodi in their domains, or that use phrases like "Kodi Addons" instead of the trademark policy's recommended "Addons for Kodi" phrase are coming up higher than us all around.

I'd also like to add the following site to the list of much worse violators who would potentially try to take our place if we were to close down: http://forum.kodicommunity.com/

[BobCratchett]

So please, where is the "root of the confusion" coming from? My presumption is your answer will be that its from a site which doesn't provide any information or support for such add-ons (but rather that users want to use said add-ons, ignoring, of course, where they get any information about them!) Wait - and sorry this is an edit - but it took me a few minutes to actually grok this - you genuinely think this site needs to plaster that the add-ons it provides are legal by all obvious definitions That's a less sensible idea than you plastering that all the add-ons you provide are illegal be all similar definitions

And let's re-iterate on the SEO - no-one has accused you of any SEO tactics. It's simply been pointed out that _IF_ your results are higher than this sites in search results, that is _likely_ to be a result of SEO. You have an issue with this?

Anyway, I'm just an innocent bystander who was genuinely hoping to be impressed by your arguments. As it stands, I'm more behind Team XBMC than I've ever been, so I wish you the best of luck in the future, and can recommend a few courses on business skills and debating you may wish to take in the future

[BobCratchett]

I didn't say the "root of the confusion" comes from here

And lets just be absolutely clear on this - and I hope people keep quoting this for a long time to come - but yes you did...

The confusion is happening at your site, not ours.

[mikeSiLVO]

The confusion is happening because of your apparent inability to realize that making it easy for your newbie users to commit illegal actions cause problems for many people on these forums. If the purpose of your site, addons, or "help" (if that is what you wanna call it) actually benefited anyone this thread would not exist.

I am going off topic a bit, but... If you BobCratchett are Unfleged. I must say that I think you are well respected by many (including myself) and the things you have contributed are and continue to be greatly appreciated and I just hope that whatever occurred to originally make you feel like you needed to leave this community never take place again.

[BobCratchett]

That's appreciated, mike, and I think a limit on my private availability (so if a team member comes up with the same shit where they tell me that my contributions aren't welcome is actually kept public) will hopefully mean I can stay with this (generally) fantastic community for a long time to come

[natethomas]

It's fun reading other people logically discuss the problem.

[BobCratchett]

Logic! Damn, I knew there was something missing. Ok, Eleazor, you win.