[Vasa]

There are a lot of great discussions about best hardware based on ability to play smooth video for certain formats and audio usage scenarios, but not so much about what is recommended to generate the best picture quality (colors, details, noise, etc.) or are all the ones similar since based on same Kodi base? So if starting with the assumption that the hardware can play the main formats, are there certain platforms that stands out or perhaps hardware requirements to enable an improvement / allow certain type of processing?

[wrxtasy]

[Vasa]

:-) Nice one. That's funny and thanks for the warning.

Sorry - didn't want to open up something that will easily de-rail. If already discussed, is there a thread somewhere I can read-up on to see the arguments? I have some of the budget players already, and I asked the question (perhaps too) open-ended, to be able to figure out what to look for to figure out the next one. Starting to plan for a dedicated HT room.

[ZwartePiet]

It's important to realize that picture quality depends on a chain of processes thats only as good as its weakest link.

Probably the most important determinant of picture quality is your source material. Your media player and TV exist to display your source with as much fidelity as possible.

I'd say the second most important source of picture quality is your TV, since it has the hardest problem of physically generating the image. TV technology generally lags video standards (e.g. REC. 709), but technology eventually exceeds that standard and becomes constrained by it until a better standard gets commercialized (e.g. REC. 2020).

Your media player exists to bridge the gap between the video source and TV. So if you want Kodi to give you the best picture quality, you first need to answer what you want to playback (i.e. source) and how you intend to play it (i.e. TV model). If you don't have an answer to those two criteria, you're flying blind and might as well light your money on fire than buy the "best" HTPC you can.

[noggin]

Yes. The other area where your media player can have a big impact is when you are deinterlacing or scaling within it. Say you run your Media Player at 1080p - switching between 24, 50 and 60Hz refresh rate output automatically.

If you start playing 720/50p content - then your media player will need to scale from 720p to 1080p, and there are different quality levels that can be achieved in scaling algorithms. Then say you watch some SD 576/50i TV or DVD content. Your player then has to deinterlace (convert 576i to 576p AND scale to 1080p) both of those algorithms can be done at different quality levels. You also have the issue that almost all the video sources we watch are 16-235 levelspace, but lots of computer software prefers to handle video as 0-255 (broadcast video has black at 16 not 0, and white at 235 not 255 to allow for overshoot and undershoots to be preserved). Avoiding conversions between the two, and minimising quality losses if there are conversions is also a key factor in picture quality.

All of the above are a combination of software AND hardware - and you are likely to get better results on platforms that developers care about developing for and that are popular. Just look at the amazing work done on the Intel GPUs recently by the Linux devs. We've got high quality deinterlacing, decent 16-235 support, minimised banding, huge work on optimisation to squeeze the absolute best quality results from modest hardware.

As others have said - your source material and your display are key factors - the media player is 'the man in the middle'.

[Vasa]

Thank you for taking the time to share your view with someone new that is trying to learn. Yes, since I'm just starting out and experimenting as much as I can to figure out what I like (plus I don't have a media collection to talk about so not looked down yet), I would be flying blind since I don't now yet exactly what I need. But that's why I have been starting to hang out here to read and learn. And there is a lot of good info here as you know.

likely to get better results on platforms that developers care about developing for and that are popular

That's a good tip

I have started to read up on the New Era thread and that looks really interesting. What's spec is required to take full advantage of the new developments?

[nickr]

A braswell box is best to take advantage of the stuff in that thread. There is a thread here summarising the available braswell boxes.

[wrxtasy]

Yes Braswell as listed in the Hardware requirements of that New Era thread for up to 4K HEVC(H265) at a max 30Hz refresh rate, due to the HDMI 1.4a connector limitation.

This is still enough to display 4K30p HEVC content you would film with say a new iPhone 6S+ or if these rumours are true 4K30p HEVC content from the upcoming Go Pro Hero 5:
http://hispeedcams.com/gopro-hero-5-rumored-specs/

For 4K H264/H265 - 50/60fps or 50/60p you are going to need a HDMI 2.0 connector that comes with the nVIDIA Shield, possibly future Intel Kaby Lake gear or the dirt cheap AMLogic S9XX platforms just coming on to the market now.

Also be aware that the nVIDIA Shield and AMLogic S9XX platforms are 10-bit capable for improved color graduation (16.7 million vs over 1 billion colors) output on a compatible 10-bit display. However Kodi currently only outputs 8-bit color. Braswell also is limited to 8-bit.
More info on 4K and 8-bit / 10-bit HERE

And this is before we even get to the discussion on "Do you actually need a 4K TV ?" found HERE

I have not even mentioned the CPU resources and length of time required to self encoding 4K/2K/1080p HEVC content yet from 1080p Bluray. Then there is the not so minor matter of new Copy protection mechanisms that will need to be cracked to even extract 4K Bluray content from users discs.

Conclusion:
Don't spend much money at all during this transition period to HDMI 2.0.
If it were me and I had already purchased or were thinking about purchasing a 4K HDMI 2.0 10-bit display panel, I would only be looking at nVIDIA and AMLogic S9XX. Rockchip devices should not be considered until they start using standard Android Mediacodec API's that Kodi now uses, and also get Kernel support for proper 24p video sync.

Now where is that Can of Worms again....

[ZwartePiet]

Thank you for taking the time to share your view with someone new that is trying to learn. Yes, since I'm just starting out and experimenting as much as I can to figure out what I like (plus I don't have a media collection to talk about so not looked down yet), I would be flying blind since I don't now yet exactly what I need. But that's why I have been starting to hang out here to read and learn. And there is a lot of good info here as you know.

Think of every dollar you spend as an investment toward video quality. Your goal as an investor is to maximize your rate of return. The first step is to determine exactly what you want (i.e. set a goal).

What are you trying to accomplish? Do you want to watch video on your current living room TV like most people? Do you want to watch movies with a projector in a basement/attic home theater? Do you want to watch video on your laptop or desktop monitor? Do you want to watch video on your phone/tablet? Do you want the best reference-level system regardless of how it's used?

These may seem like pedantic questions, but they're important because people have a natural urge to tick off specification boxes even if those specifications are subjectively/objectively meaningless. If you spend your money right, you can get much better picture quality out of a $5 Raspberry Pi Zero than most will get out of a $200+ x86 PC.

[Vasa]

Good information here. Much appreciated! I now have some reading to do.

OK - what I'm picking up is that it's all about the system and how the pieces fits together. Makes sense.

The best picture comes from the fun to experiment and try to max out the most out of reasonable priced stuff. I normally go about it to go through the whole spectrum from cheap to super expensive to figure out what I really need versus what the marketing material tells me I need. I kind of like the research/building part.

So I'm looking at a projector (that is yet to be selected) set-up for Blu-ray/DVD based movies.

BTW: I actually want one of the $5 Rpi zero - think it will make a great music streamer plus the youtube clip I saw with Kodi on it wasn't too bad

[Vasa]

@wrxtasy - I really like that you have linked to your good threads in your signature! It makes it really easy to find them. Those as well as the ones you linked here should really be put into a FAQ sticky listing links to key threads/posts. Just a thought..

[Karnis]

I'll play!

IMHO as a long time XBMC/ Kodi user on a few different platforms, here's my 2 cents worth. Sources are uncompressed blu ray rips, some DVDs, etc. YMMV as always...

1) Nvidia/ Windows/ MadVR renderer....the best PQ I've personally gotten. No color banding on the Geforce GT 720 and MadVR squeezes every drop of quality from the source. Based on a budget-priced Dell PC ~$350, I added the $45 GT 720. As a former projector user, I find this is an excellent solution for a 120" image.

2) Intel/ OpenElec /EGL.....Using the latest EGL builds results in excellent colors, proper limited color range for HDTVs and outstanding deinterlacing. Banding is eliminated. Chromebox for $165, very, very good PQ, IMHO outstanding price/performance ratio. Looks great on my 65" Samsung HDTV. Easy to set up thanks to Matt Devo and his excellent automated script installation.

3) Nvidia Shield...not bad but has color banding that will soon be resolved. Otherwise very similar to EGL. NO HD audio passthru yet but Jarvis will decode them to PCM & send to your receiver. Box itself is future proof for 4K. ~$199

Personally I'm currently using the Chromebox as my go-to Kodi player in the 5.1 HT man-cave. I have the Shield which I mess around with here & there but it's my Kodi box of the 4K future when I upgrade down the road. I use the PC mostly as a Plex server for the rest of the house these days.

By no means am I an expert, & I fully admit there are several other Kodi solutions I have not personally experienced. Hope this helps.

[ZwartePiet]

The best picture comes from the fun to experiment and try to max out the most out of reasonable priced stuff. I normally go about it to go through the whole spectrum from cheap to super expensive to figure out what I really need versus what the marketing material tells me I need. I kind of like the research/building part.

So I'm looking at a projector (that is yet to be selected) set-up for Blu-ray/DVD based movies.

The media industry is currently transitioning from HDTV to UHDTV. Like anything, the best quality comes from chasing the newest standard. The problem is that hardware is rapidly evolving to fill the new void, meaning prices are high and technology is quickly outdated. In other words, prepare to incur the cost of being an early-adopter if you want to be on the bleeding edge. If you want to make up your own mind on what's good enough rather than blindly follow "the next best thing," you'll need to:

• Read up on the different standards specified by the ITU. It'll show you how standard definition, high definition and ultra-high definition differ from each other technically.

• Next, read up on the specifications of the consumer digital video formats for the three ITU standards -- DVD, Blu-Ray, Ultra HD Blu-Ray

• Next, read up on what criteria matter in a good display. A few key areas to understand deeper are gamut, gamma correction, color depth, visual acuity, motion blur, motion interpolation and the importance of calibration.

• Lastly, read up on the historical development of motion pictures to understand the chaos a modern HTPC must navigate. Remember that HTPCs exist to translate information from a media source to a television. HTPCs affect video quality by how well they perform that translation process. To fully flesh out your knowledge of what is getting translated and why, you'll need to:
  
  1. Read up on why film cameras use 24 FPS.
     
  2. Read up on the development of analog television (NTSC if American, SECAM if French/Russian, PAL otherwise). Understand how mains electricity frequency (e.g 60Hz, 50Hz) and the need to reduce CRT flicker led to the 60i and 50i formats and how 24 FPS film was broadcast through the telecine process.
     
  3. Read up on the advent of color and the tricks needed to incorporate it onto the legacy analog TV signal, giving rise to YUV colorspace, limited color depth and oddball frame rates like 59.94i and 23.976p.
     
  4. Learn about the widespread use of magnetic video-tape in the late-70's/early-80's and digital video from the 2000s-onward in television, which gave the world video that is interlaced but *not* telecined (i.e. hardest to reconstruct).
     
  
  

BTW: I actually want one of the $5 Rpi zero - think it will make a great music streamer plus the youtube clip I saw with Kodi on it wasn't too bad

The short of it all is that a Raspberry Pi Zero ($5 price + $4 codecs + $5 cables + $10 uSD Card) connected to a HDD (~$25/TB) holding commercial Blu-Ray rips (~$5/ea) feeding a calibrated 1080p OLED display (~$1500) will get you the furthest along for the least amount of money.

[noggin]

The short of it all is that a Raspberry Pi Zero ($5 price + $4 codecs + $5 cables + $10 uSD Card) connected to a HDD (~$25/TB) holding commercial Blu-Ray rips (~$5/ea) feeding a calibrated 1080p OLED display (~$1500) will get you the furthest along for the least amount of money.

Yep. It's ridiculous. Though the Pi 2B is worth it for the better deinterlacing (if you watch 1080i conten) and snappier UI.

I got my Zero yesterday. It's insane that a £4 device can deliver HD video of the quality it can. (Yes - I already had a PSU, USB OTG cable, uSD card and an HDMI Mini cable)

(Though equally you may find a rewrapped Blu-ray will play directly from a hard drive connected directly to your TV these days).

[flydkuhn]

is there a way to print from within the kodi platform to my wireless printer? if you know how or an application to allow me to print please email me at [email protected]. tyvm