[da-anda]

please don't mess with the logo proportions - icon and text size should not be changed independently.

[Tinwarble]

Do them yourself then!

And you mean like the ones that you have on the Kodi Blog.

An overlay of 2 different ones.

[da-anda]

these where not approved/reviewed by me. Also, I think the wrong one was a random wallpaper being used without noticing that the logo is not correct (not everybody has an eye for that)

[Tinwarble]

Well, were to start then.

1. Since it's already been done, in this thread alone, and nothing has been said until now a precedence has been set.

2. As the code name "Krypton" was chosen, and Krypton is a planet I felt the logo needed a planetary scale against the text. It's called "artist license". Not to mention that I did this for myself and CHOSE to share it with the rest of the community.

3. These are "FANARTS", emphasis on the "ART" and if you don't like what community members contribute then you are welcome to ask for your money back.

This is supposed to be community driven, no one contributing to this thread was hired by Team Kodi to make these fanart/wallpapers and if you don't like them or they don't fit your arbitrary "rules" then you are quite welcome to not use them.

[Tinwarble]

these where not approved/reviewed by me. Also, I think the wrong one was a random wallpaper being used without noticing that the logo is not correct (not everybody has an eye for that)

Well apparently you don't either since you didn't say anything about this one (with the original logo + text on top).



http://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=...pid2060888 (Sorry @samfisher, not trying to drag you into this)

Nor did you say anything about any of the others that don't keep the original proportions.

As a matter of fact, the only thing you had to say was

boy, you're crazy. Awesome stuff!!!!

[da-anda]

All I wanted to say is that at least in future you (and everybody else, including Samfisher ofc) should try to stick with the proportions when you display the text next to the icon - maybe that came off wrong - if so, sorry for that. I did not say that you have to change or remove your fanart. The only thing I care about is, that if the icon is combined with the text, and thus being the complete logo, that proportions should (and for official stuff actually HAVE TO) be kept.

[Tinwarble]

And what I'm saying is that you should let artist create art, people like samfisher and even to a lesser extent myself shouldn't have to worry about some arbitrary constraint like keeping the logo the same proportions as what's been laid out. This ain't paint by numbers.

It shouldn't matter what the proportions are as long as what's seen can be singularly identified as being Kodi.

But you asked un1versal in another thread:

wtf is going on these days.

This type of thing exactly, you (not saying "you" specifically) take something that should be fun and drives the community forward and then take the smallest thing and rain on peoples parade.

[da-anda]

I don't prevent artists from creating art - I'm only asking to stick with proportions when using the entire logo - especially the side by side version. For the top-bottom one we have two icon sizes where one would actually have fit your idea with the planet. And you can go all crazy with the icon itself, just not make it look like the logo then.

And why is asking people to stick with proportions taking away the fun? I had perfect fun with creating my Krypton wallpaper (which will be published along with the blog post)

[Tinwarble]

Which means that you want people to conform to your vision, that is not art. When you have to conform to some other persons/groups vision, that my friend is called a job. I didn't want to use the top/bottom logo, just like I didn't want to keep the logo and text in the same proportions as the "original", that was not MY vision.

As well, that is not what I meant, nor what I said. What I meant is that things like this, making a mound out of a mole hill is what's taking the fun out of doing anything for the community. It's probably why devs are leaving the "Team" (Koying resigned, fritsch is gone and now un1versal, all in a week), Team-Kodi is becoming more like Team-Borg........you will be assimilated!

[da-anda]

in other words you say that art must not respect any rules or guidelines? So fuck copyright when using imagery in your own art because it's not in your vision?

Believe me, I don't want to be the bad guy asking people to not modify the logo proportions when using it, but somebody has to do it, and I seem to be the only one in the team to care at all about any art/brand related stuff. Yes, it sounds like work, but can't an open source project still have at least some professional acting?

And the team is falling apart for many reasons - one might be that there is no clear leadership and everyone thinks his vision (which due to lack of communication/documentation most don't know about) is the way to go, which in one way or another at some point will end up in a emotionally driven dispute of different parties until one is sick of arguing and just leaves. So this is IMO what you end up with when everybody is doing what he wants with no overall well defined and written down masterplan. A complex application like Kodi has become IMO just can't be without any rules anymore. There was a long fight to get the codebase stable, even with nightlies. Establishing this process removed some of the fun, but people got used to it and it's not an issue anymore. Project has grown up code wise, now the team has to follow, which unfortunately means to treat everything more professional and organized - so more work like. But more work like doesn't have to mean there is no fun aspect to it anymore. But well, that's just how I think about. As its really OT, let's not dive into this here.

btw - your jarvis wallpaper with the circle etc is perfectly fine, also the other Krypton ones in your flickr library - it's only the side-by-side one that mimics the actual logo. I'm not arguing on this any further - either you understand my point and respect it or you don't. I can't stop you from doing whatever you want - all I can do is to ask to stick to the proportions when using the entire logo.

[Ned Scott]

What I meant is that things like this, making a mound out of a mole hill is what's taking the fun out of doing anything for the community.

The problem with communicating over the internet is that it's easy to see things like this. It's also easy to give this impression from the other side. I don't think it's what da-anda meant, but it's hard for you to know that from this thread alone. Even if it was meant more literally, more as a "command", it's hard to say if da-anda actually meant it or not because this is just text. This is an exchange that could have happened in person and been no big deal, because other things are expressed, in tone, in body language. Maybe it is a flat out disagreement about logos, but even that might not have been a big deal to either person.

Plus, all the other stuff going on, it's easy to be frustrated.

However, I don't think this is on the same level as other public disputes. It might feel that way, because we make assumptions and it builds inside us. I've done it plenty of times and regret it, but I honestly don't know how to fix it in the future. It might just mean not trusting our own assumptions about what people mean, unless it's literally typed out. At the very least, I hope you see that this wasn't meant to be some major dispute, and that there isn't a big conflict between you and da-anda. Both of you are just two people talking over the internet, doing things you enjoy, and no one means any ill will.

[Tinwarble]

in other words you say that art must not respect any rules or guidelines? So fuck copyright when using imagery in your own art because it's not in your vision?

No, that is not what I'm saying, and NO, it's not about saying fuck copyright.

1. Copyright and trademark are legal arguments. Is that what you trying to do, make a legal argument by bringing "copyright" into a thread about fanart?

2. You (in the plural sense, in my native language Ya'll) have already set a precedence. Not only did you not say anything for over a year, when clearly your "rules & guidelines" weren't being followed, you used those images to promote Kodi. Whether those were approved by you specifically or not it happened.

3. You (specifically you) didn't bother doing this properly, by editing the first post & posting your "rules & guidelines", which at the most should have been done well before now and at the least should have been done now. Instead you decided to single me out, whether intentional or not, and post your "rules" literally right after I had posted my fanart.

4. Of course I understand & respect your argument and if any of this was "official" then that argument would hold water. However, it's not, you don't have to use them nor are they being used to promote Kodi in anyway. Speaking for myself only, with the exception of uploading it to my photostream, the only place that these fanarts are posted is in this forum for the use and benefit of the community.

And if you wanted to use anything I created "officially" then if you respectfully request certain criteria then I would usually be more than happy to comply. Like this:


Outside of that though, I respect others personal preferences in what they envision as to what they create and expect the same. I can respect your wishes and you can respect my vision in a unofficial capacity at the same time, neither have to be mutually exclusive.

This is an exchange that could have happened in person and been no big deal, because other things are expressed, in tone, in body language. Maybe it is a flat out disagreement about logos, but even that might not have been a big deal to either person.

Actually, I'm probably more amicable in text. In person I'm.............well, rough around the edges.

[Kib]

Nice fanart Tinwarble, and nice to see you understand that in order to keep copyright of the logo we must protect the dimensions of the icon and text as much as possible.
That doesn't mean we never fail in protecting it, as you rightly pointed out.