Android scapegoat
#31
And we've gone off topic.

This thread isn't about add-ons or piracy, it's about the idea that some have or might have about dropping support for a OS, specifically Android.
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#32
(2016-01-09, 00:17)Tinwarble Wrote: And we've gone off topic.

This thread isn't about add-ons or piracy, it's about the idea that some have or might have about dropping support for a OS, specifically Android.
You can't separate the idea from the reasoning that drives the idea.
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#33
Yep, we drifted Wink

We have to put a bit of history context in balance, there. Personally, I wanted a fanless STB for Kodi. At the time of the android port, there was the pi1 and the Pivos DS, punt.

And both were single CPU and quite slow in UI. I wanted better and the dual-core android boxes were there (yes, the boxes came before Kodi Wink) So I started using android, and eventually created the first h/w codec for it (libstagefright) before davilla added mediacodec (there was quite a drama at the time, too, btw).

Fast forward to today, there are plenty of good cheap Kodi hardware, now, which can run OE/linux, and even cheap windows 10 sticks coming.

Problem: I now want my kodi AND my Netflix (with a remote interface) on the same box. Apple being a no-go, there's just android left.

So yeah, you can trash android for being the source of all evils, I just don't see an alternative for my use case any more now than there was 4 years ago. And I am in a place with Amazon prime, HBO, and whatever good legit streaming services is not available.

Some wants to believe Kodi can live on its own island, like in the good old days. I just think those days are past, as is the htpc era, as even is the dvd/bd era. Kodi can survive as part of a an app ecosystem, be it Apple, Android or whatever would come next. It's just doomed otherwise, IMHO.

Too bad android is probably the most easy platform for users, and thus pirates, but I have zero doubt something else (pi or aml linux) would have taken its place as piracy platform would the port have not existed.
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#34
I've split out all the conspiracy stuff into its own thread here: http://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=255769

If you want to talk about conspiracies, feel free to continue there until or unless it is closed. If you continue talking about it here, you will be banned for a period of time.
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#35
Thanks Nate! Great work. lol.. Normally those kind of conversation where killed of.

As for Android,it's MediaCodec. Or support Davilla non-python fork. Fritsch and Koying are friends again? Good news!

Sorry for the noise but check out the conspiricy topic; it's fun. Another specific pointer for Ned: https://bulkzooi.wordpress.com/about/colophon/
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#36
(2016-01-09, 02:59)Koying Wrote: Yep, we drifted Wink

We have to put a bit of history context in balance, there. Personally, I wanted a fanless STB for Kodi. At the time of the android port, there was the pi1 and the Pivos DS, punt.

And both were single CPU and quite slow in UI. I wanted better and the dual-core android boxes were there (yes, the boxes came before Kodi Wink) So I started using android, and eventually created the first h/w codec for it (libstagefright) before davilla added mediacodec (there was quite a drama at the time, too, btw).

Fast forward to today, there are plenty of good cheap Kodi hardware, now, which can run OE/linux, and even cheap windows 10 sticks coming.

Problem: I now want my kodi AND my Netflix (with a remote interface) on the same box. Apple being a no-go, there's just android left.

So yeah, you can trash android for being the source of all evils, I just don't see an alternative for my use case any more now than there was 4 years ago. And I am in a place with Amazon prime, HBO, and whatever good legit streaming services is not available.

Some wants to believe Kodi can live on its own island, like in the good old days. I just think those days are past, as is the htpc era, as even is the dvd/bd era. Kodi can survive as part of a an app ecosystem, be it Apple, Android or whatever would come next. It's just doomed otherwise, IMHO.

Too bad android is probably the most easy platform for users, and thus pirates, but I have zero doubt something else (pi or aml linux) would have taken its place as piracy platform would the port have not existed.

Same here. Netflix was just announced at CES for my country. So that basically leaves Android as a platform for Netlfix and HBO and Kodi in one single boat, and one device that does that + 4K HVEC , 1080p + HD audio bistreaming , the SHIELD . If Kodi would ditch Android as a platform, i'd be forced to move on to Plex, which is not something i'd want since there are no skins for the Android TV app , few addons and they require the server to be on so you can use them (i'd prefer having the server off if all i'm doing is browsing youtube or spotify) etc.
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#37
Just to add some more history about the Android port. In the early days, the only real player in town for set-top type boxes was AMLogic. Which is why Pivos went with AMLogic chipsets. M1/M3 were single core and it was a real pain to get decent GUI rendering out of a heavy height skin. We (Pivos) did all sorts of tricks to speed it up. Some worked, some did not as you can only do so much with a single core CPU. Tech wise, the AMLogic M1/M3 was very similar to my first port to the original AppleTV and it exposed several issues with the basic code architecture of the codebase. Which we fixed.

The very 1st hardware video implementation for Pivos/XBMC/Kodi on Android was AMLPlayer. It was based off of work that Cory and I did for Sigma (based on GStreamer). The newbies might not know this but Pivos funded both Cory and myself full time for over a year to port XBMC/Kodi to Android with the full understanding that it would get PR'ed back. This was a huge amount of effort with many false starts, much harder than the Sigma/GStreamer port. Cory did an amazing job with creating the jni callback structure I have to say. This created the critical internal API to access Android java classes with little pain.

AMLPlayer was part of the original PR that Pivos did to bring in Android as an supported platform. It was a complete internal player that was used instead of DVDPlayer for accessing hardware video decode. While it worked well, it was a pain in the ass to maintain because AMLogic would make drastic, incompatible changes to the API and I would have to think up new and interesting ways to get around it. So I created DVDVideoCodecAmlogic.

DVDVideoCodecAmlogic was an improvement over AMLPlayer. Much lower layer, simpler API to maintain (despite the insane efforts of AMLogic Smile and we gained the ability to do all sorts of things that AMLPlayer did not do at the time (with subs and audio). Then the Android set-top-box market exploded and there were all sorts of vendors of different chipsets out there. At Pivos, we wanted to be able to jump to others like Nvidia (were in talks with them). Google (finally) exposed a lower level API for decoding video so I spent a week creating DVDVideoCodecAndroidMediaCodec as POC for a common Android hardware decoder. This happened long before DVDVideoCodecStageFright and we (Pivos) were able to run (internally) on other chipsets. I always intended to refactor DVDVideoCodecAmlogic and clean it up but never got time to do it right.

Sidebar about Pivos and GPL. Cory and i were very adamant about GPL. Changes to the codebase MUST be pushed public when Pivos released a binary. While we did not dev in public to keep our competitors (and XBMC/Kodi was NOT considered a competitor) from snatching improvements and pushing them out before we could, we made damn sure that all code changes got pushed public and even assisted backports into the XBMC codebase by continuing to PR them back. The pirates and parasites were waking up and starting to take notice of easy pickings even back then. They would grab the Pivos apk, stuck it on generic AMLogic hw and just flood ebay with them. As we (Pivos) controlled our Android firmware, we would play blocking tricks to make it difficult, they would figure them out and around and around we went Smile Eventually the amount of effort exceeded the amount of time gained and and it was not worth it anymore so we stopped.

DVDVideoCodecAndroidMediaCodec never got exposed back then because it was never in Pivos public binary releases. Pivos stuck it out with AMLogic and exposing it would only help the Pivos competitors, so it sat, waiting in a branch for an opportunity.

I knew back then that DVDVideoCodecAndroidMediaCodec was the way forward. It was getting harder and harder to maintain DVDVideoCodecAmlogic as AMLogic kept coming up with new and even stranger ways to screw up a perfectly good API with their coding madness. Then DVDVideoCodecStageFright popped out and Cory and I decided that it would be best for all to expose DVDVideoCodecAndroidMediaCodec and try and get others to focus on the way forward. Yes, there was some drama but both DVDVideoCodecAndroidMediaCodec and DVDVideoCodecStageFright ended up being in better shape for initial inject into the codebase.

Now AMLPlayer is gone, DVDVideoCodecStageFright is gone. DVDVideoCodecAmlogic should get nuked (but for its use under OpenElec/Linux) as well to focus all efforts on making DVDVideoCodecAndroidMediaCodec as good as it can be. Koying has done a fine job maintaining Android. While I might have done some things different, he is (or was) the maintainer and both Cory and I got sucked down a dark Pivos/China hole so we did not have time anymore to PR backports.

Now, I'm free of Pivos (a long story in itself) and back to the roots of OSX/iOS/tvOS development with MrMC. While I do not expect to be doing PRs into Kodi, the code changes are there in github, in sync with binary releases. We (MrMC) could have gotten it in with python/addons present, I'm a very clever coder. We stripped python/addons from MrMC for the sole reason of the tainting of Kodi by rip-off parasites and pirates. With MrMC, there is no quick and easy opportunity for them to exploit and we would rather have less users than have an explosion of rip-offs and get lost in the noise. One thing I learned in business long, long ago is never, ever let your brand get tainted. It will kill you over the long term.
MrMC Forums : http://forum.mrmc.tv
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#38
(2016-01-09, 17:07)MrMC Wrote: So I created DVDVideoCodecAmlogic.

Yeah, sorry. Obviously amlcodec/amlplayer were there first (and I just learn that you already had mediacodec in your sleeve at libstagefright time).
If anything, if I get you right, libstagefright made mediacodec go open, or it might not have been at all, as Pivos never used it in a product (so far) Wink
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#39
Hindsight works wonders Smile Maybe yes, maybe no. If Pivos moved to Nvidia , things would be very different. The libstagefright PR did force mediacodec public but the intent was always to bring it public at some time.

Pivos/USA never released anything with MediaCodec, Pivos/China did have it present. Of course being in China means you can thumb your nose at GPL too. Not that I agree with that attitude at all.
MrMC Forums : http://forum.mrmc.tv
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#40
(2016-01-09, 17:07)MrMC Wrote: Just to add some more history about the Android port. In the early days, the only real player in town for set-top type boxes was AMLogic. Which is why Pivos went with AMLogic chipsets. M1/M3 were single core and it was a real pain to get decent GUI rendering out of a heavy height skin. We (Pivos) did all sorts of tricks to speed it up. Some worked, some did not as you can only do so much with a single core CPU. Tech wise, the AMLogic M1/M3 was very similar to my first port to the original AppleTV and it exposed several issues with the basic code architecture of the codebase. Which we fixed.

...

Now, I'm free of Pivos (a long story in itself) and back to the roots of OSX/iOS/tvOS development with MrMC. While I do not expect to be doing PRs into Kodi, the code changes are there in github, in sync with binary releases. We (MrMC) could have gotten it in with python/addons present, I'm a very clever coder. We stripped python/addons from MrMC for the sole reason of the tainting of Kodi by rip-off parasites and pirates. With MrMC, there is no quick and easy opportunity for them to exploit and we would rather have less users than have an explosion of rip-offs and get lost in the noise. One thing I learned in business long, long ago is never, ever let your brand get tainted. It will kill you over the long term.

This is a fascinating timeline and I - like many others - remember some of it happening (as an innocent bystander watching the hardwork all the devs put in).. if you ever get the time - would you post the Pivos story on the (MrMC) forums as I'd love to learn more about that history too..
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#41
Good you have come clear Davilla. But... too litlle too late. You were lying in front of a large audience against bulkzooi. And that remains a problem.

Shouldn't you go ReallLife tm.? Working on your next major hack?
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#42
ok natethomas, please make good on your post above. He's just tolling now.
MrMC Forums : http://forum.mrmc.tv
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#43
Perm banned him. Anyone is free to revert if he thinks we will land one day Wink
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