[noggin]

@looun: this is for magnifico's question on futeko forum regarding HDMI bandwidth. 2160p60 10-bit YCbCr 4:4:4 or RGB requires 22.28Gbps. As correctly mentioned by you, it is the TMDS bandwidth that you should be looking at in that table. You can calculate the bandwidth for any resolution/refresh rate here: http://www.extron.com/product/videotools.aspx

(3840+560) x (2160+90) x 60 (fps) x 30 (color depth) x 10/8 = 22.275Gbps. 10/8 is the overhead for TMDS 8b/10b encoding. This is also explained on the webpage from which mangifico has posted the table.

2160/60p 4:4:4 isn't supported by HDMI 2.0 at any bit-depth is it ? Is it supported in 2.0b? I think 8 bit just squeaks into the maximum bandwith that HDMI 2.0 supports - but 10 and 12 bit are outside it. 22.275Gb/s is more than is currently supported by HDMI 2.0 isn't it?

[OlivierQC]

@ hdmkv i used the spreadsheet yesterday.


when i choose 1080p60, i have 4.4.4 10bit by default

[wesk05]

You're choosing 8-bit YCbCr420? In your case, as your Sony supports 10-bit, I'd try 10-bit YCbCr444, and if any issues, try 422 10-bit, then 420 10-bit. @wesk05 can comment on this, as 4K, 10-bit and HDR have made what's needed to support what a whole lot more complex.

I am quite lost with all the video options in the Q10 Pro firmware. Is there no auto option for HDR? At 24Hz, 10/12-bit 4:4:4, 4:2:2 should work. At 50/60 8-bit 4:4:4/4:2:0, 10-bit 4:2:0, 12-bit 4:2:2/4:2:0 should work. It doesn't look like you have the 12-bit option on Q10 Pro. Personally, to me it looks like HiMedia has messed up things trying to put all possible options in the firmware.

Why is there no bit depth for YCbCr 4:2:2? Does it even work?

[wesk05]

2160/60p 4:4:4 isn't supported by HDMI 2.0 at any bit-depth is it ? Is it supported in 2.0b? I think 8 bit just squeaks into the maximum bandwith that HDMI 2.0 supports - but 10 and 12 bit are outside it. 22.275Gb/s is more than is currently supported by HDMI 2.0 isn't it?

No. No. Correct. Correct

[noggin]

2160/60p 4:4:4 isn't supported by HDMI 2.0 at any bit-depth is it ? Is it supported in 2.0b? I think 8 bit just squeaks into the maximum bandwith that HDMI 2.0 supports - but 10 and 12 bit are outside it. 22.275Gb/s is more than is currently supported by HDMI 2.0 isn't it?

No. No. Correct. Correct

I see http://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/hdmi_2_...q.aspx#146 shows that 4:4:4 8 bit is supported for YCbCr (and also RGB), but no 10 or 12 bit as expected (as it exceeds HDMI2.0 bandwidth limits)

So for HDMI 2.0 we have :

YCbCr 4:2:2 12 bit at 2160p 24/25/30Hz
RGB/YCbCr 4:4:4 8/10/12/16 bit at 2160p 24/25/30Hz

YCbCr 4:2:0 8/10/12/16bit at 2160p 50/60Hz
YCbCr 4:2:2 12 bit at 2160p 50/60Hz
RGB/YCbCr 4:4:4 8bit at 2160p 50/60Hz

So whatever the frame rate 4:2:2 is only ever available in 12 bit (so no bit depth will be offered for 4:2:2 I guess)
For 2160/50p and 60p you can only run RGB/YCbCr 4:4:4 at 8 bit, YCbCr 4:2:2 at 12 bit, and YCbCr 4:2:0 at 8/10/12/16 bit.

[wesk05]

I see http://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/hdmi_2_...q.aspx#146 shows that 4:4:4 8 bit is supported for YCbCr (and also RGB), but no 10 or 12 bit as expected (as it exceeds HDMI2.0 bandwidth limits)

So whatever the frame rate 4:2:2 is only ever available in 12 bit (so no bit depth will be offered for 4:2:2 I guess)

Shoot.. overlooked the any bit depth part of your question.

For 4:2:2, that could be the case and it may only work with Dolby Vision (in HiMedia's case, assuming it does indeed support Dolby Vision).

[noggin]

I see http://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/hdmi_2_...q.aspx#146 shows that 4:4:4 8 bit is supported for YCbCr (and also RGB), but no 10 or 12 bit as expected (as it exceeds HDMI2.0 bandwidth limits)

So whatever the frame rate 4:2:2 is only ever available in 12 bit (so no bit depth will be offered for 4:2:2 I guess)

Shoot.. overlooked the any bit depth part of your question.

For 4:2:2, that could be the case and it may only work with Dolby Vision (in HiMedia's case, assuming it does indeed support Dolby Vision).

I see the spec also says Rec2020 can be used for 10/12 bit 2160p (4:2:0/4:2:2 at 2160/50-60p, and RGB/4:4:4/4:2:2 at 2160/24-30p) - so presumably 8 bit 4:2:0 and 4:4:4 is 709 only (and 16 bit is - a bit mad??)

[OlivierQC]

@wesk05, @noggin

I have a10bit HDR tv however,only have 8bit movies (I assume 4.2.0). Should I choose 8bit, 10bit or does this does not matter ?

thanks in advance

Olivier

[looun]

@looun: this is for magnifico's question on futeko forum regarding HDMI bandwidth. 2160p60 10-bit YCbCr 4:4:4 or RGB requires 22.28Gbps. As correctly mentioned by you, it is the TMDS bandwidth that you should be looking at in that table. You can calculate the bandwidth for any resolution/refresh rate here: http://www.extron.com/product/videotools.aspx

(3840+560) x (2160+90) x 60 (fps) x 30 (color depth) x 10/8 = 22.275Gbps. 10/8 is the overhead for TMDS 8b/10b encoding. This is also explained on the webpage from which mangifico has posted the table.

many thanks wesk05, but he is hopeless case....

I just bought one of those...
FAR beyond HDMI2.0a @ 27gbps!!!

[OlivierQC]

@wesk05, @noggin

I have a10bit HDR tv however,only have 8bit movies (I assume 4.2.0). Should I choose 8bit, 10bit or does this does not matter ?

thanks in advance

Olivier

and about my question

[wesk05]

@wesk05, @noggin

I have a10bit HDR tv however,only have 8bit movies (I assume 4.2.0). Should I choose 8bit, 10bit or does this does not matter ?

thanks in advance

Olivier

This is actually a tricky question. I don't have a Q10 Pro and I have almost decided not to get the Q5 Pro. So I can't really suggest what would be the best mode. What you can do is test the different output modes with this test pattern from Spears & Munsil and see which mode looks the best in your setup. The pattern is for checking apparent chroma upsampling errors.

Spears & Munsil test pattern

Pattern help

[wesk05]

many thanks wesk05, but he is hopeless case....

I just bought one of those...
FAR beyond HDMI2.0a @ 27gbps!!!

I saw that. May be the guy who has the VELOX cable should read this: Misleading HDMI Cable Bandwidth Claim

Cables that are tested and rated internally by manufactures are quite meaningless. HDMI Licensing has a premium cable certification program. Premium certified cables are not necessary, but those are the only ones that a consumer should spend extra money on.

[hansolo]

@wesk05, @noggin

I have a10bit HDR tv however,only have 8bit movies (I assume 4.2.0). Should I choose 8bit, 10bit or does this does not matter ?

thanks in advance

Olivier

This is actually a tricky question. I don't have a Q10 Pro and I have almost decided not to get the Q5 Pro. So I can't really suggest what would be the best mode. What you can do is test the different output modes with this test pattern from Spears & Munsil and see which mode looks the best in your setup. The pattern is for checking apparent chroma upsampling errors.

Spears & Munsil test pattern

Pattern help

On q5 most chroma tests passed only with Imprex Engine disabled. Your uploaded pattern may be tricky to read/interpret (because... most video players failed RGB/Chroma checks and alignment is very hard to read) but gradient patterns from SM2 ar easier to understand.
I think choosing 10bit settings for 8bit signal can only have bad effects, not good.

[OlivierQC]

@wesk05, hansolo,

thanks for yours answers, i will do some test


i have another question for you,

about Sony Camp 4K HDR, when i watched it on my tv sony, the PQ is very very beautiful, but with the q10 pro the sky seems to be like 8bit gradient/gradient dithering, and with other demo 4k HDR do not have this problem.

http://i.imgur.com/YTpYvG0.png

i made a little video :
https://1fichier.com/?iq5olm7h21

what do you think ?

thanks in advance
Olivier

[destroyer2usa]

@wesk05, hansolo,

thanks for yours answers, i will do some test


i have another question for you,

about Sony Camp 4K HDR, when i watched it on my tv sony, the PQ is very very beautiful, but with the q10 pro the sky seems to be like 8bit gradient/gradient dithering, and with other demo 4k HDR do not have this problem.

http://i.imgur.com/YTpYvG0.png

i made a little video :
https://1fichier.com/?iq5olm7h21

what do you think ?

thanks in advance
Olivier

I can confirm also colourbanding in sky with Sony camp HDR demo playback thru Q10Pro . no setting changes fixes it!


Plays 100% with media player in my TV, Samsung 65js9500.


Perhaps hdmkv can forward it tot himedia fw debuggers.