[Traker1001]

What does "• Removes SAP streams support" mean? This scared me, I thought this was the alternate second audio stream on DVD's and TV. However happily I still have the option to change the stream on my system.

[SeVreN2013]

i had no idea what "SAP Streams" were either .... so i googled it

https://wiki.videolan.org/SAP/
https://www.epiphan.com/userguides/pearl...APView.htm

so, i don't think it has anything to do with DVD audio streams.

[Traker1001]

Searched the forum, but didn't find, for whatever reason didn't occur to me to google it. Anyways, IC, Thanks.

[Ned Scott]

huh, I never knew Kodi even supported that. Probably because no one ever documented it ;)

[skylarking]

I don't use SAP myself but if it was coded, then someone somewhere will use this feature.
And at some stage, i'd think someone will ask why their system will no longer work as it did before

In reality i thought cleaning up the code, as is happening now, should be more about restructuring than removing features.
So what's the rational in removing this features?

Just curious

[Ned Scott]

I don't use SAP myself but if it was coded, then someone somewhere will use this feature.
And at some stage, i'd think someone will ask why their system will no longer work as it did before

In reality i thought cleaning up the code, as is happening now, should be more about restructuring than removing features.
So what's the rational in removing this features?

Just curious

From the PR ( https://github.com/xbmc/xbmc/pull/8612 ), it sounds like it wasn't working.

This might not be accurate as I'm not a dev, but I think this is what's also going on:

Eventually filesystem stuff like that will become binary add-ons, so cleaning up this area as much as possible will help with that effort. That same modular system for file systems will also allow someone to add SAP back in, as a binary add-on, in the event a SAP-interested developer shows up or becomes active. Then it won't matter if only one person uses it because it's optional, while still being very easy to enable.

[skylarking]

From the PR ( https://github.com/xbmc/xbmc/pull/8612 ), it sounds like it wasn't working.

This might not be accurate as I'm not a dev, but I think this is what's also going on:

Eventually filesystem stuff like that will become binary add-ons, so cleaning up this area as much as possible will help with that effort. That same modular system for file systems will also allow someone to add SAP back in, as a binary add-on, in the event a SAP-interested developer shows up or becomes active. Then it won't matter if only one person uses it because it's optional, while still being very easy to enable.

From the PR, "I think this is broken for years" is not as definitive as it should be to nuke code.. but i'm sure the devs know what they want to achieve; me, i'm just an enjoyer of Kodi

As for binary addons, why the move in that direction and will there still be a requirement that the add-ons be open sourced? Or is this a move to close up bits of Kodi?

That's one of the benifits of Kodi is that it's opensource as are the addons (python code being that it's there for all to see)

[stefansaraev]

I dont think it was broken for years. it WAS broken for years. (yes, I tested it, several times), and nobody cared meanwhile, this feature was effectively not used (or used by few people, for whom it worked by luck)

now, can you elaborate on your use case, assuming it worked for you before the feature drop, for what you (still) need sap streams ?

EDIT: the word "think" means I did not know when exactly it got broken, I did not care to bisect

[Dilligaf]

SAP is also "secondary audio program"which broadcasts a second audio stream on TV, in the US oftentimes Spanish. I think the OP thought this was dropped.

[natethomas]

As for binary addons, why the move in that direction and will there still be a requirement that the add-ons be open sourced? Or is this a move to close up bits of Kodi?

That's one of the benifits of Kodi is that it's opensource as are the addons (python code being that it's there for all to see)

I can answer this part. Closing up Kodi isn't only not the goal, for the most part it's impossible, because of how our licensing structure is set up. The shift to binary addons has been part of an ongoing project to get rid of various unrelated systems depending on each other that were causing absurd breaks that can only happen because of a 16 year old code base.

Moving things into binary addons breaks these things up, makes for a cleaner development process, and ultimately could allow for big updates in between major Kodi releases, without causing everything to break.

We've actually been doing this since almost 2012, when we introduced pvr addons, the first major binary addons.

[stefansaraev]

short answer - yes, they are supposed to be opensource. however, they are free to load and use at runtime any closed source libraries they may need (some inputstream addons will be doing that, obviously. hint: drm)

[Ned Scott]

You could even say this started with Python add-ons. Before add-ons, scrapers would sometimes break, and you had to wait for a whole new version of XBMC to be released before they would work again.

Imagine an NFS bug being fixed mid-release as easily as an add-on. Or being able to rollback/uninstall an update if you were just testing beta features on a new SMB/SAMBA add-on.

Being modular allows for faster fixes, longer support for features, experimental features on a stable Kodi version, brand new features on an existing Kodi version, etc.

[skylarking]

now, can you elaborate on your use case, assuming it worked for you before the feature drop, for what you (still) need sap streams ?

EDIT: the word "think" means I did not know when exactly it got broken, I did not care to bisect

I don't use SAP streams feature as mentioned in my earlier post so nio use cases to share
And yes, the PR can be read that it was broken for some unknown number of years so thanks for clearing up my fuzzyness

Closing up Kodi isn't only not the goal, for the most part it's impossible, because of how our licensing structure is set up. The shift to binary addons has been part of an ongoing project to get rid of various unrelated systems depending on each other that were causing absurd breaks that can only happen because of a 16 year old code base.

Moving things into binary addons breaks these things up, makes for a cleaner development process, and ultimately could allow for big updates in between major Kodi releases, without causing everything to break.

We've actually been doing this since almost 2012, when we introduced pvr addons, the first major binary addons.

I haven't looked at any code base (don't know where to start) but thanks for the clarification about binary addons and their intent.
It's great to hear the software developement process will be in a better state as this cleanup moves forward

short answer - yes, they are supposed to be opensource. however, they are free to load and use at runtime any closed source libraries they may need (some inputstream addons will be doing that, obviously. hint: drm)

So over time, we may see a few closed source binary addons for things like hula, netflix and other DRMed streaming services.
Still, this is abandoning an opensource principle for some quick flix (pun intended)... Not ideal but understandable
Just hope there is a way to keep the opensource community engaged and not see a slide into closed binary addons (if the current python addons can be reinstalled as closed binary blobs).

Being modular allows for faster fixes, longer support for features, experimental features on a stable Kodi version, brand new features on an existing Kodi version, etc.

Lot's of upside to the restructuring it seems, so go Kodi

Thanks to all for the info, as mentioned i was curious how and why things were going that way.

Cheers all.