[Gracus]

If anyone wants to change their preference to the other way then they can do it via the keymap,
but it should default to how I suggested.

So what is the point of this thread if it could just be changed by keymap?

Standard behaviour does not suit you: use keymap and no more issue!

The point is ....

the default behavior when the usability/design phase was being consider for the PGUP/PGDN is incorrect and should be corrected at the source (ie Kodi)
instead of requiring the user to correct it themselves.

This is like saying there is a flaw in your design, and you should fix it at the source.
Instead of requiring the user to patch it up themselves.

If the user had to install Kodi from scratch, they would need to fix the problem and
each time they installed the software from scratch they would need to fix it again.

Whereas if the problem was already fixed at the source. They would not need to do it again and again

I have clearly laid out concisely why the default buttons PGUP/PGDN should be change.

If you have read it, you can see clearly that everything I have said is logically true/correct and the default behavior/design is incorrect.

You can even see it for yourself when you load up any playlist of videos/songs.
The actual physical behavior is to move UP and DOWN the play list which corresponds with the buttons PGUP/PGDN.

When you want to move down a list to the next video / song, you press PGDN, because you are thinking of moving down the list.

So to require ppl to press PGUP (ie move UP) to go down is incorrect design.

So you prefer that people that do not agree with you had to fix it via keymap each time they install kodi just because you decide you are right and you do not have to fix it each time you install kodi

Weird logic that lead to nothing:

-devs change it your way
-some peoples make a thread to say it should not be like this (with the same "I am the only one to have the truth" attitude)
-devs change it their way
-you made a new thread like this one
-devs change it your way
-some peoples make a new thread
-.....

Personnally I do not care:
-devs decide whatever they want
-there is a way to change it if I want it the other way

Last post from me, now it's time to let devs decide

[Ned Scott]

Let's not forget that the way videos are displayed change a lot. They're not always in a list, and lists can be ascending or descending. The "next" episode in a show might be up, down, left, or right, depending on the view the person chooses. Right now my misc download folder is using descending-date. My movie views are icon/poster based and not even in list form.

[madmax2]

Let's not forget that the way videos are displayed change a lot. They're not always in a list, and lists can be ascending or descending. The "next" episode in a show might be up, down, left, or right, depending on the view the person chooses. Right now my misc download folder is using descending-date. My movie views are icon/poster based and not even in list form.

Yes, if you open up Kodi
Choose Viewtype: List

You will see that it only in the traditional view ie. TOP to BOTTOM.

You are right that when the view type is changed to something else like wall or poster
then next video would not always be below, it could be on the right or below.

But remember the keyboard button for next/previous is currently assigned to PgUp/PgDn.

So when people are pressing those buttons they are expecting PgUP/PgDn to move up and down, like in a traditional list

There is no current keyboards that have buttons with label PgForward / PgBackward, or PgLeft, PgRight which kodi is assigned to for Next/Previous...

It is to do with user expectation.

When I press the Down Arrow, I expect to go Down, not Up.

But currently Kodi is telling me, in order to move down, I must press Up?

This is not logical.


===

Your point about the list can ascending or descending is irrelevant because the list is always process from top to bottom (with regards to Kodi processing next and previous videos.).

Example..

You can sort the list like this..

descending order

1. Video 3
2. Video 2 (currently playing)
3. Video 1

ascending order

1. Video 1
2. Video 2 (currently playing)
3. Video 3


The next video will always be DOWN below from where you are
and Previous video will always be UP from where you currently are.

Therefore regardless of sort order,
-PgUp should always move Up to the previous video
-PgDn should always move DOWN to the next video.

[Koying]

This PgUp/PgDown discussion is sterile.
Whether right or wrong, it has been like this for years, so changing it will probably do more harm than good.

Looking at the mapping, it looks like it is at least consistent: PgUp is always +1 (channels, ratings, chapters) and PgDown is -1.
Up = +1; Down = -1 seems an acceptable paradigm, although it doesn't fit well with lists and the way the keys are usually used on a keyboard.

Back to the interesting stuff: Does it make sense to always queue videos (possibly with optimisations) and to only play them in sequence if "Play next..." is enabled.

[Dilligaf]

Exactly. @madmax I completely agree with your logic/argument, ages ago I would constantly press the wrong remote button but I have now gotten used to it, the problem is that Kodi/XBMC has been backwards for so long that if it were changed it would upset more people than it would please. Just accept that the incorrect setting has been "grandfathered" in and it will not be changed

[madmax2]

Exactly. @madmax I completely agree with your logic/argument, ages ago I would constantly press the wrong remote button but I have now gotten used to it, the problem is that Kodi/XBMC has been backwards for so long that if it were changed it would upset more people than it would please. Just accept that the incorrect setting has been "grandfathered" in and it will not be changed

So are you saying, you now press SkipPrevious on your remote control to go to next chapter/next video?

Or is your remote configurable and you can assign any buttons to it?

Or you create the keymap file?

===

I don't know if it would upset many users or not (cos we don't have data for that, only speculation)
unless we created some sort of poll to ask if it should be swapped or not.

Maybe those users would be happy to get the configuration fixed to the way it logically/intuitively should be.
And how hard is it to unlearn the old way anyway?
Just think of yourself as an example, would it be very hard to unlearn the old way and learn the natural intuitive logical new way?


As you said, many people (including yourself) had to
"get used" to pressing the wrong button to go to next video..

but I think there are group of users (myself included) who did not get used to it and would still hit the "wrong key" ie PageDn when they wanted to go next video when they need to press PageUp,
then had to recorrect ourselves by pressing the PageUp.

So that is why I would like the wrong configuration to to be fixed


If Kodi gets fix to the proper way it should be, people can logically/intuitive return to using the buttons as they expected when they press those buttons
and when something is logical/intuitive, it is easier to learn than something that is not
and you can unlearn the old way quite quickly..

===
An alternative solution is

create a setting in kodi for
"Swap PageUp /PageDn function"

that way people who like it the correct way can enabled it and it won't upset any others who got used to the old way.

[madmax2]

This PgUp/PgDown discussion is sterile.
Whether right or wrong, it has been like this for years, so changing it will probably do more harm than good.

Looking at the mapping, it looks like it is at least consistent: PgUp is always +1 (channels, ratings, chapters) and PgDown is -1.
Up = +1; Down = -1 seems an acceptable paradigm, although it doesn't fit well with lists and the way the keys are usually used on a keyboard.

Back to the interesting stuff: Does it make sense to always queue videos (possibly with optimisations) and to only play them in sequence if "Play next..." is enabled.

Yeah this wrong configuration has bothered me for a while now, so I just wanted to alert the developers to this incorrect issue that I noticed.

===
An alternative solution is

create a setting in kodi for
"Swap PageUp /PageDn function"

that way people who like it the correct way can enabled it and it won't upset any others who got used to the old way.

What do you think?


===

What do you mean by " Does it make sense to always queue videos (possibly with optimisations) and to only play them in sequence if "Play next..." is enabled."

Are you referring to Settings>Video>Playback>"Play next video automatically" is enabled?

[Ned Scott]

@madmax2

I think once Kodi is at a point where there is a real keymap only for keyboards, unlike now where keyboard shares a map with remotes that appear as keyboards, then this will be more likely to be considered.

[madmax2]

@madmax2

I think once Kodi is at a point where there is a real keymap only for keyboards, unlike now where keyboard shares a map with remotes that appear as keyboards, then this will be more likely to be considered.

I have question which I am wondering about..

Are most remote controls that use keyboard default map, has mapped PageUp to SkipPrevious or SkipNext button on those remote controls?

Because if it is default mapping PageUp to SkipPrevious button, this means many users of those remote controls had to relearn and would be pressing
SkipPrevious button on their remote control to go to next video.

Based on the comment of "Dilligaf" he/she had to relearn to used the SkipPrevious button on his/her remote control to skip to next video.

This is not intuitive to how the remote control is built and how ppl are using it in other media players like their DVD/Blu ray player.
So they had to modified their behaviour whenever they used Kodi.

Either that or those users would have had to create a new keymap to swap the PageUp/PageDown around, so that can continue pressing SkipNext button on their remote control to go to next video.

[Ned Scott]

Skip next always goes to the next video. The only time I've seen remotes use page up/down was for the channel
up/down buttons. These remotes normally have their own separate skip next/previous buttons with their own specific skip next/prev actions.

When you press up it is on the video player, not a file list. It makes sense to me, and to a lot of people, and it makes sense in the context of remote controls. I have never seen a DVD or BR remote with page up/down buttons or chan up/down buttons. They have different next/prev buttons.

Anyone can change the keymaps. If we're lucky we will have a GUI editor for normal remotes in the future.

*shrug*