Professionals or kids having tantrums!
#16
(2016-10-03, 09:15)trogggy Wrote:
(2016-10-03, 02:25)Bluesmanuk Wrote: This should be an easy thing to resolve.

Where a legitimate addon that cannot be part of the official Kodi repository because of stated rules is concerned, then a simple rule should be in place that states that the developer must, in the first post of a thread, state what modifications their addon makes that could potentially affect the ability for another addon to not work as expected.

Add to that a mandatory use at your own risk statement.

Then any user that wishes to consider using such an addon can do so in a more informed manner and make decisions based upon the information given about the effect that it could have elsewhere in a Kodi setup.

The thread can then be used for users to ask questions, make suggestions and give feedback.

The result is clarity and no more need for conflict or bad feelings, which also means a happier user, developer and owner community.
That's assuming the reasons given are genuine of course. In which case lots of other repos will no doubt be disappearing.
I'm not holding my breath.

If such things were implemented though, then most, if not all doubt would be removed.
#17
It depends on people visiting here though doesn't it ? There must be a huge userbase that isn't even aware of this site and judging by many of the support requests, they are simply not aware of what they are installing anyway much less of potential conflicts between add-ons.

I can understand the 'we can't let you host something that might break add-on compatibility within our own repo', but given that it was re-named to avoid doing just that, I would have expected that the issue was resolved in a satisfactory way. Obviously the team don't think so, and I'd be interested in hearing any comments that they might like to make regarding all this.

Silence however I'm sure will prevail although I cannot understand how effectively shutting down a respected add-on developer shows any kind of respect for Kodi's users or indeed any respect for the community members here. Particularly in light of the fact that no official team statement has been made regarding this.
Learning Linux the hard way !!
#18
(2016-10-03, 09:33)black_eagle Wrote: It depends on people visiting here though doesn't it ? There must be a huge userbase that isn't even aware of this site and judging by many of the support requests, they are simply not aware of what they are installing anyway much less of potential conflicts between add-ons.

I can understand the 'we can't let you host something that might break add-on compatibility within our own repo', but given that it was re-named to avoid doing just that, I would have expected that the issue was resolved in a satisfactory way. Obviously the team don't think so, and I'd be interested in hearing any comments that they might like to make regarding all this.

Silence however I'm sure will prevail although I cannot understand how effectively shutting down a respected add-on developer shows any kind of respect for Kodi's users or indeed any respect for the community members here. Particularly in light of the fact that no official team statement has been made regarding this.

And the person behind all this was being extremely quiet yesterday, not a peep out of him even though he was on and off the forum like a yo-yo all day, come to think of it I haven't even seen a statement of any kind from Team Kodi as to why all Rob's threads were trashed over the weekend.

If there was any controversy with Rob's posts/threads on Saturday why did it take almost 24 hours before they were taken down? Oh yeah thats when a certain person came online, strange that the other mods & admin didn't have a problem with them, well not until they were trashed!

I'd like to know whose running this show because it is definitely not Team Kodi..
#19
Wow all of the people trash talking the "certain someone" and Team Kodi.
Just a reminder to all of us, Team Kodi does not owe us anything or any explanation or a "peep", should they decide to justify their behavior that is fine, if not, they do not owe you or me anything.

I hope they don't reply to all of these, instead privately discuss with Rob the issue and work on a fix, instead of wasting time arguing with people that feel they are entitled for something.

Reminder: the only thing you are entitled for is the money you paid to use this software....waitRolleyes......yeah Rolleyes
#20
I don't think "owing us something" or "entitlement" is the issue here. Any FOSS project of this size survives based on cooperation, and there are obvious cracks and tensions within the team that people are trying to understand. Much of the time, they don't matter, because developers (and users here in this forum) come and go all the time - but, sometimes, those issues impact users, and that's the case here: addons that some folks use are being separated away, the support threads binned, and the author is effectively hanging up his IDE as a result.

There are similar issues in other aspects of the project, and it makes people nervous. My worry is that we head into fork territory, which is always a scary time (c/f OpenElec vs LibreElec, OpenOffice vs LibreOffice, ffmpeg vs libav). I hope not, and that it's simply a combination of personality and philosophical clashes coupling with a need to tighten things up on a project of this magnitude and complexity.
#21
(2016-10-03, 16:37)Prof Yaffle Wrote: I don't think "owing us something" or "entitlement" is the issue here. Any FOSS project of this size survives based on cooperation, and there are obvious cracks and tensions within the team that people are trying to understand. Much of the time, they don't matter, because developers (and users here in this forum) come and go all the time - but, sometimes, those issues impact users, and that's the case here: addons that some folks use are being separated away, the support threads binned, and the author is effectively hanging up his IDE as a result.

There are similar issues in other aspects of the project, and it makes people nervous. My worry is that we head into fork territory, which is always a scary time (c/f OpenElec vs LibreElec, OpenOffice vs LibreOffice, ffmpeg vs libav). I hope not, and that it's simply a combination of personality and philosophical clashes coupling with a need to tighten things up on a project of this magnitude and complexity.

You are right, and I agree with your point, however my comment was towards the many threads and posts created by users and not the addon author himself and the language used in these posts.
I have been following this issue since it first happened, and while you can find couple of users discussing and arguing in a healthy way (your comments for example) and are actually positively contributing (the thread about an unofficial repo), others are not, and they are simply whining and attacking Team Kodi members.
#22
(2016-10-03, 17:03)melhemk Wrote: You are right, and I agree with your point, however my comment was towards the many threads and posts created by users and not the addon author himself and the language used in these posts.
I have been following this issue since it first happened, and while you can find couple of users discussing and arguing in a healthy way (your comments for example) and are actually positively contributing (the thread about an unofficial repo), others are not, and they are simply whining and attacking Team Kodi members.
Here's a thought - quote a post you disagree with and say why, rather than generalizing. Because at the moment I have no idea what exactly it is you take issue with.
It's obvious that nobody on the internet has an absolute obligation to anybody else on the internet unless a contract is involved, so that's not really helpful.
#23
(2016-10-03, 16:37)Prof Yaffle Wrote: There are similar issues in other aspects of the project, and it makes people nervous. My worry is that we head into fork territory, which is always a scary time (c/f OpenElec vs LibreElec, OpenOffice vs LibreOffice, ffmpeg vs libav). I hope not, and that it's simply a combination of personality and philosophical clashes coupling with a need to tighten things up on a project of this magnitude and complexity.

That is not an issue in this case. The team is having an internal conversation about this, definitely, but it is for the most part calm and rational, and I believe we're mostly all on the same page. We'll likely come out with an official statement in the next day or so.
#24
The original thing that started this all:

https://github.com/xbmc/repo-scripts/pull/221

Where robwebset was upset that his Sonos add-on was denied for modifying core system files, which I'm sure people can see is a Bad Thing™. He decided the best approach is to pull all his add ons and stop using the official repository entirely, even after he was given IMO a reasonable alternative to stay in the official repo:

"I'm sorry you feel that way. The correct way is ask the user on a first-time init to move the custom keymap file to the keymaps dir. Leave it there, don't roll it in and out where a possibly inconsistent state may result. It may involve using unique Window IDs, I haven't looked that much at the issue."

He decided to give up on the official repo was his 'way out', which would screw any of the skins and stuff which are dependent on it to begin with...
#25
(2016-10-03, 17:11)trogggy Wrote:
(2016-10-03, 17:03)melhemk Wrote: You are right, and I agree with your point, however my comment was towards the many threads and posts created by users and not the addon author himself and the language used in these posts.
I have been following this issue since it first happened, and while you can find couple of users discussing and arguing in a healthy way (your comments for example) and are actually positively contributing (the thread about an unofficial repo), others are not, and they are simply whining and attacking Team Kodi members.
Here's a thought - quote a post you disagree with and say why, rather than generalizing. Because at the moment I have no idea what exactly it is you take issue with.
It's obvious that nobody on the internet has an absolute obligation to anybody else on the internet unless a contract is involved, so that's not really helpful.

My posts were clear, I disagree with the language used and not the technical part. Read the numerous threads around the forum about the same issue and you will get it. If your posts are polite and well written that doesn't mean that all other posts agreeing with you are using the same language.
Hell even this thread title is offensive "kids having tantrums", as a comparison look at the thread title that the addon creator started "Isn't This Supposed To Be Fun? ".

Edit :added thread title.
#26
(2016-10-03, 17:20)keith Wrote: The original thing that started this all:

https://github.com/xbmc/repo-scripts/pull/221

Where robwebset was upset that his Sonos add-on was denied for modifying core system files, which I'm sure people can see is a Bad Thing™. He decided the best approach is to pull all his add ons and stop using the official repository entirely, even after he was given IMO a reasonable alternative to stay in the official repo:

"I'm sorry you feel that way. The correct way is ask the user on a first-time init to move the custom keymap file to the keymaps dir. Leave it there, don't roll it in and out where a possibly inconsistent state may result. It may involve using unique Window IDs, I haven't looked that much at the issue."

He decided to give up on the official repo was his 'way out', which would screw any of the skins and stuff which are dependent on it to begin with...
Why is there any obligation to stay in the official repo? And has that ever been communicated?
If whoever's managing the repo wants to remove an add-on that's fine. But if you're in you're in? Or else?
#27
(2016-10-03, 17:28)melhemk Wrote: Hell even this thread title is offensive "kids having tantrums", as a comparison look at the thread title that the addon creator started "Isn't This Supposed To Be Fun? ".

So you think that even though all of Rob's threads were deleted over the weekend without any explanation, that this was a person acting professionally!

Contrary to what you think, I have a lot of respect for the Kody devs, and thank them for bringing us this fantastic platform for our legitimate media, but when one person takes it upon themselves to trash the work of another, then I may get a little upset, There wasn't any need to act the way he did, he could have contacted Rob and explained the situation instead of ignoring his requests for information.

Oh and the correct title of this thread is "Professionals or kids having tantrums!"
#28
(2016-10-03, 17:40)trogggy Wrote: Why is there any obligation to stay in the official repo? And has that ever been communicated?
If whoever's managing the repo wants to remove an add-on that's fine. But if you're in you're in? Or else?

There's not, nobody said there was, it's his choice entirely.. But the complaint of 'a bunch of skins use these add ons!' is a bad reason, because robwebset made that decision himself.
#29
(2016-10-03, 18:50)keith Wrote:
(2016-10-03, 17:40)trogggy Wrote: Why is there any obligation to stay in the official repo? And has that ever been communicated?
If whoever's managing the repo wants to remove an add-on that's fine. But if you're in you're in? Or else?

There's not, nobody said there was, it's his choice entirely.. But the complaint of 'a bunch of skins use these add ons!' is a bad reason, because robwebset made that decision himself.
The problem is nobody's said what the problem is.
#30
(2016-10-03, 18:54)trogggy Wrote:
(2016-10-03, 18:50)keith Wrote:
(2016-10-03, 17:40)trogggy Wrote: Why is there any obligation to stay in the official repo? And has that ever been communicated?
If whoever's managing the repo wants to remove an add-on that's fine. But if you're in you're in? Or else?

There's not, nobody said there was, it's his choice entirely.. But the complaint of 'a bunch of skins use these add ons!' is a bad reason, because robwebset made that decision himself.
The problem is nobody's said what the problem is.

This is moderately accurate, in the sense that the team hasn't made any group official statement about it. As stated previously, we will be coming out with an official statement in the next day or two. I'm inclined to close this thread until then and then re-open it at that time.

However, I'll leave it open for now, but if it continues down the path of people angrily replying to people previously angrily replying, I'll close it almost immediately.

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