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Current Status: robwebset repository
#91
(2016-10-21, 10:18)bilgepump Wrote:
(2016-10-21, 10:02)Ned Scott Wrote: and it was never brought up to him to correct.
But why would it? He'd taken his content to host elsewhere. He alone is responsible for it. Who's supposed to be checking on him and trying to get him to do something he should never have done in the first place? Rules must be black and white or you have liability issues. Allowing anything "pending explanation" is allowing it. When it's unacceptable, it is unacceptable. There's no room for "near enough". There is no room for acquiescence, especially in relation to something not in the official repository. Why would the team have to devote any time to checking and getting third party content outside the site to be "corrected". It's entirely up to the author to figure out what's required, and then do it.

(BTW, I really can't believe that a long term member and developer could be ignorant of something that a new user is aware of after a short membership.)

I don't think you understand what I'm saying. If this was discovered in a "peaceful" time, and he just had it in his repo, then I think the correct course of action would be to have disabled his posts or links somehow (temp deleting or whatever) and then bring it to his attention. If it can be resolved and is seen as an honest mistake, then restore threads and allow him to talk about the add-ons again. Banning the user himself does nothing to correct the situation. If anything, it makes it worse, because he could still be out there and with no reason to listen to the people from the Kodi project. Why would he after the way he was treated? Yet there are still thousands of users who might be using those add-ons.

This is not some grave sin, but it is a major concern. It's not something you ban people for on sight. If that was done then we probably wouldn't have any add-on developers left. What is it that you think he did here? Raped someone?
#92
Ned, I think we have to disagree about the user tracking claim being absurd, it is out there and has been proven, piracy is another issue (we cannot prove or disprove that he is not distributing content).
About not being given time, please go back to page 2 of this thread, you will see that the issue was brought up by phil and rob was banned 8 hours later during which instead of clarifying the issue and/or correcting it, he made 2 posts one of them making fun of forum rules and moderators, and the other trying to pass this behavior on the bases of : you didn't catch it in the beginning, slipped right in between your fingers, therefore it should be allowed.

This exact behavior of him makes people like me assume ill intent.

Edit: about piracy, we have to take his word for it, and seeing how he handled other situations (taking his balls home instead of playing nicely with team members, and the tracking issue), I think you can see why team members (and others as well) do not believe him.
#93
You expect him to drop everything and fix something at that moment, because people, who have been trying to discredit him in the same discussion, found an issue with his add-ons? He was in the middle of a heated discussion, trying to get answers after being a punching bag for nearly a month. You don't just ban someone in that situation, especially when the person who banned him was the Kodi team member that was in the dispute with him.

In a perfect world he should have stopped right away and fixed it, but it's understandable that it didn't happen like that. The worst he might be guilty of is being frustrated and foolish after a month of arguments. That's still not "ill intent". What would his intent even have been? Do you think he planned this months in advance, hoping that it would come up and offend someone? Or is it reasonable to assume that he made a mistake, unrelated to the dispute regarding his add-ons. A stupid mistake, but a mistake none the less.
#94
(2016-10-18, 15:57)robwebset Wrote:
(2016-10-18, 15:51)phil65 Wrote: since rob doesnt seem to be willing to cooperate anymore

phil65,

So based on Nates comment for Ned:

(2016-10-18, 11:04)natethomas Wrote: Ned, I'm giving you leeway here, because you're a buddy of mine, but I very much plan on forcing this thread to be entirely professional and free of anger and other emotions, and pretty much my only tool for that is banning. If you post anything else where you are making effectively wild guesses about peoples' motives, I'm going to have to ban you for a few days.

A few day ban maybe? Laugh

Rob

(2016-10-18, 22:57)robwebset Wrote: Nate,

The code is exactly the same that has been in the official repo for a long time now. If it was OK in the official repo for all that time, it's suspicious that now I've moving out of the official repo "people" suddenly have concerns with it.

Sounds a bit like sour grapes to me.

Rob
Doesn't seem that heated to me from the way he is replying.

I hope you don't misunderstand me, am not saying he is a bad person or secretly monitoring people or whatever! If am not mistaken a lot of distributions track users for statistical information (doesn't OSMC and Libre/OpenElec do it? am not sure).
What I am saying is that he is also to blame for the escalation of the situation, no I do not expect him to drop everything and fix it (though that is exactly what he did with Licenses issues according to your claims, didn't he?)
I am just trying to show you why the people "assumed" ill intent, whether he had it or not is another question.

What can he do with couple of MAC's? that really does not matter, it is the team decision that tracking is not allowed, this is the rule, he has to play by it.
#95
I think maybe you misunderstand what my issue is. I don't have a problem with that being a rule. It's a rule I agree with, and I myself was very disappointed to hear that rob was doing these things. I think the concern itself was/is valid. It should not be allowed, no excuses.

It's the accusations resulting from that, that I feel are unfounded. Using this as "ammo" to take rob out in an unrelated dispute is certainly not great either, but this tracking thing and the "piracy" is being used to attack his character. He's literally being called things like a criminal. That is what I feel is absurd.

EDIT: and from rob's own reply that you quote, you can see why he is suspicious of the concern. I don't agree with his logic, but I can understand it.
#96
(2016-10-21, 02:22)bilgepump Wrote:
(2016-10-20, 18:16)Rich.T. Wrote: which show a very problematic lack of concern about added functionality employed by a large number of Kodi users.
I can't see any "lack of concern" at all. Quite the opposite.

Wow, I finally got a direct reply from someone.
I was starting to think that I was invisible, or something.

I do understand that the team have their own concerns, which are a combination of idealogical, legal, privacy, and piracy-related issues: I share these.
However; now that Rob has had his right of reply removed, these are all moot.

I believe that Ned Scott has kind of answered for me at this stage, but let me repeat my concern, which you have taken out of it's context:

(2016-10-20, 18:16)Rich.T. Wrote:
(2016-10-18, 10:10)natethomas Wrote: Hi rob, you have no idea how tired of this whole thing I am. Acting as a go-between for addons I've never used is super dull.
[...]

The first paragraph here, deeply concerns me and reiterates previous comments by Nate, which show a very problematic lack of concern about added functionality employed by a large number of Kodi users. If Nate actually used any of these addons, himself, would his attitude toward them and this situation differ? I believe that it might and this all might have been a little less 'dull' to him.
[...]

If Nate's comment here doesn't shout out "lack of concern", I do not know what does.
As project lead, he is entitled to his own concerns, but a total lack of understanding for other people's concerns is problematic.

EDIT: I have just decided to no longer use the words issue, concern or problematic in any internet post I make from now on. Wink
#97
Quote:As discussed at DevCon we would benefit from having a possibility to better identifer unique kodi instances.
Anyone concerned with their privacy may want to take a look at this PR: https://github.com/xbmc/xbmc/pull/10543
#98
* natethomas reiterates his lack of concern for Rich.T's benefit.

To be clear though, Rich, my lack of concern is for acting as a conduit between one third party that isn't offering anything through Team Kodi and other third parties who aren't receiving anything through Team Kodi. I also feel no need to help users of the pirate repos or the catchall repos. I was willing to try to help here, because for some reason users felt strongly about getting support on our forum for something that's not going through us at all and per the author never will, but realistically speaking, once an add-on has been removed from our repo and there's no clear goal or intent for it ever to go back, I see no real obligation for us to spend resources supporting it. We could out of the goodness of our hearts, but that's about it.
#99
It took me 2 days to wrestle myself through the above messages (edited: and the ones in the garbage subforum), after I discovered something was wrong the TVTunes addon. What me suprises is how nobody tries to really explain what is happening in a understandable matter for everyone.

As far as I understand the following happened (Edited: Added chapters, because the new forum rule seems to be to make posts as dramatic as possible).
TVTunes soap chapter I:
The TVTunes addon is moving away from the official Kodi repository
Chapter II:
The TV Tunes addon is writing outside it's own folder. This is only done to give the user a better experience and is not harming anyone is any matter? There is a small risk when writing goes wrong (the file might become corrupt), but look like some Kodi Team member was looking to find a problem.
Chapter III:
The TV Tunes addon doesn't obey to GPL rules. Rob (tried to) fix(ed) this?
Chapter IV
The TVTunes addon uploaded tv theme's to an external server which allowed others to download them. You may record tv programs and use their tv tunes for private use, but you may not upload them. The Addon should have had an option to turn this feature off and a clear explanation about this. In the upload process the mac adress of the uploader was recorded. I presume this was probably done to ignore addresses which uploaded a lot of bad tunes? But we never will know, because the creator is banned now and probably very angry about the way this was done.

I think I understand TV Tunes programmer Rob in his motives and I do not like the way the Kodi team handled this. As a long time user of your software, I would like to see a clearer statement of Natethomas, because he seems to be the only one staying civilized and objective. All other Kodi members do not act very professional (Although I also understand their reaction).
(2016-10-22, 08:07)Bloksel Wrote: All other Kodi members do not act very professional (Although I also understand their reaction).
I think you should reconsider that statement. I don't know the "players" in this melodrama, but I've certainly read many sensible posts from people with "team" under their names. I think Zag (is that his name) was very accommodating in trying to improve the submission process, I would certainly dispute calling (at least) him unprofessional. If you are going to say that somebody has acted unprofessionally, you need to point to a specific example and why you consider it unprofessional, not just make blanket statements like that. It's this type of (over) generalization that gets people making similarly generalized pronouncements about others and things degenerate into unproductive namecalling.
Quite. Before you start hurling offensive generalisations around please note how many people make up Team Kodi that you have now almost universally insulted and accused of being unprofessional.

Especially given all of us are volunteers who support the project in our own free time and for little or no reward.
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(2016-10-22, 09:30)bilgepump Wrote:
(2016-10-22, 08:07)Bloksel Wrote: All other Kodi members do not act very professional (Although I also understand their reaction).
I think you should reconsider that statement. I don't know the "players" in this melodrama, but I've certainly read many sensible posts from people with "team" under their names. I think Zag (is that his name) was very accommodating in trying to improve the submission process, I would certainly dispute calling (at least) him unprofessional. If you are going to say that somebody has acted unprofessionally, you need to point to a specific example and why you consider it unprofessional, not just make blanket statements like that. It's this type of (over) generalization that gets people making similarly generalized pronouncements about others and things degenerate into unproductive namecalling.
Yeah, because that will end well.
You're correct about the generalization.
(2016-10-22, 09:30)bilgepump Wrote:
(2016-10-22, 08:07)Bloksel Wrote: All other Kodi members do not act very professional (Although I also understand their reaction).
I think you should reconsider that statement. I don't know the "players" in this melodrama, but I've certainly read many sensible posts from people with "team" under their names. I think Zag (is that his name) was very accommodating in trying to improve the submission process, I would certainly dispute calling (at least) him unprofessional. If you are going to say that somebody has acted unprofessionally, you need to point to a specific example and why you consider it unprofessional, not just make blanket statements like that. It's this type of (over) generalization that gets people making similarly generalized pronouncements about others and things degenerate into unproductive namecalling.

I admit I probably didn't read every post about this subject and it I also admit I was wrong in pointing the finger to every team member. I only wanted to point out the whole discussion is jumping from item to item and for me it looks like team Kodi is now trying to find something to blame the TVTunes programmer for. I really appreciate all the effort the Kodi team is doing in protecting their users and improving their software.

Not everybody is an expert, even some addon developers just try to do their best. Like mentioned before, it has to be fun for them. There is no other profit. For almost the same reason, I am always somewhat afraid to post in the Kodi forums, because when your question is not extremely correctly formulated, someone only seems to be pointing out the errors in it and you never get an answer.
Look at it more that the more we looked into this case, the more we discovered that was unacceptable or against the rules. The attitude that evolved certainly didn't help (on either side) but when you have such a situation with someone that initially appeared to be trustworthy then it's disappointing. And as more and more was discovered in the end patience ran out and final action was taken.

With hindsight it could indeed have been handled better, but things were certainly made worse by well meaning but emotional people throwing fuel on the fire and making a simple calm and rational discussion almost impossible.

The only loser in this is Kodi, as it makes many good people on both sides wonder why the hell we bother to give our time and just get grief back.
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I do not wish to argue about who started it. Also I do not want to start a new argument. I just want to get the facts right about why (according to Kodi) users should not use this addon anymore, because I still do not completely understand it.

If I visit the official Kodi Wiki page for the TVTunes addon I would like to see a detailed reason why the Kodi Team decided to remove this addon. The way it is done now does remind me a lot on how Stalin removed Lenin from history, by removing him from every picture. And this gives me a bad taste. This was the main reason I said "unprofessional" (which seemed to be more insulting then I thought, so I am now sorry about and I wish to apologize for), because now I had to go through the whole forums to get an explanation and still didn't get.
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