[AnthonyB]

Note: this is NOT a 'what a crap update' post. It is a genuine question/discussion as I weigh up the pros/cons, or gains/losses, in upgrading from v16 Jarvis to v17 Krypton and very specifically on Windows.

I've been using Kodi/XBMC since XBMC on my modded original Xbox.
Today, I have Kodi v16 on 2 dedicated Windows 10 HTPCs plus my main work/gaming PC.
I run a MySQL database and have the video and music files all stored on a Windows Server 2012 R2 server.
I use the default Confluence skin and the only addons I use are OzWeather, YouTube, and HD-Trailers. My primary usage is playing my own media from my server. I use media Companion to create/manage TV Show/Movie metadata.
I do not use Live TV or PVR.
These systems are used myself, wife, and son.

I've spent the last couple of weeks testing out Kodi v17 Krypton, in particular, getting used to the new estuary skin. As a result, I'm really on the fence as to whether I upgrade as I weigh up the benefits of new functionality in v17, versus what I lose.

While I know there is a multitude of change/updates/improvements in v17 over v16, as I focus on what is relevant to:

1. Windows (i.e. the updates/improvements for Android and Linux are irrelevant)
   
2. My usage scenarios (i.e. updates/improvements to Live TV and PVR are irrelevant)
   

Now, I know someone is going to be thinking 'well, don't update if you don't want. No-one is forcing you to!'
Yes, I know.
To the first line in the post, this post is a 'thinking out loud and discuss/validate my thoughts with community' post. Not a 'the devs didn't put enough good stuff in just for me - you suck' post.

So, the key changes I think I'm left with are:

1. Estuary skin
   
2. Improved Music Library
   
3. Windows 10 Store app
   

Estuary (vs Confluence)
I'm really trying to like Estuary. I'm not a skinner or modder. I like to use the default as it is usually the fastest, cleanest, easiest to upgrade/maintain. The only changes I've ever made in previous versions were the enhancements from the OzWeather addon and choosing different List types and number of values returned in some lists! That said, going from Confluence to Estuary, there are just lots of little things that irk me. Estuary just feels 'under-baked' to me. The controls and icons all feel... less refined. Most of the default lists have you scrolling down a list in the middle of the page, and then content updating on the left and right edges. Your eyes are constantly ping-ponging side to side. It is a very 'un-ergonomic' UX.

Funnily enough, the nail in the coffin for me was that the enhanced weather pages for OzWeather that I rely on (radar maps) are not available for Estuary.

I've also tested rolling back to Confluence on v17 and for the most part it all works as desired, but it does then make me wonder about 'why upgrade'?

Music Library
OK, scraping is definitely faster
Visualizations aren't on by default so had to go and fine them, install them, and then enable.
Music playback visually under Estuary seemed a completely overlooked feature. I loved Confluence because I could play an album, have visualizations going (looks good and stops burn-in) and have track/album info visible. This was a mess under Estuary. So going back to Confluence, like the section above, I question whether there is much benefit.

Windows 10 Store app versus MSI
OK, I like Store apps because I don't have to maintain them (auto-update) and the devs have a mechanism to collect telemetry and crash data automatically. All Good. For now, I'm going to file this under 'maybe in the future' but for now, I like a slower more managed change process given the fallout (family tech support) if things break

In general I can play back all the content I have on v16, including the latest HEVC/x265 encoded video files and if I'm not going to jump on the Estuary skin bandwagon just yet, there doesn't seem to be much reason to update at this time.

Can anyone suggest any key features that are new in v17 that I haven't considered? Thanks!

[PatK]

The key thoughts are good to consider, although this isn't the Estuary forum http://forum.kodi.tv/forumdisplay.php?fid=260 I would mention that the forum has been open for quite a while and didn't seem to include a lot of your missives. Feature requests have turned into a sticky and modifications are coming fast and furious.

I had the same kind of reaction you had on first launch, but have come to see the skin in a new light. A buddy who has always had issues with Confluence, popped around and saw me struggling with Estuary, he felt the gui was way more intuitive than any skins he has tried, he even pointed out one of my navigational mistakes. I struggled through it's good looks and finally saw the simplicity of it all. I suspect that for seasoned pros with custom set-ups, just a new graphic look isn't going to cut it unless there's more under the hood, and that's why it's users like you that will take what is offered, with suggestions, improvements and make this into something we can't live without.

Sometimes it's a good idea to refresh from the road map, we are looking forward to 4K, efficiency and some features we only thought would be in dreams.

Although the idea of Windows 10 Store app appeals, I like to be in control and have too many customizations to allow anything automatically, but if the majority thinks that is the way to go, then I'll climb aboard that train too. I think you're just verbalizing the plus|minus sheet, and from that perspective, a few months from now the balance sheet might look entirely different.

Get involved in the community and see if your input can make the changes you so wished, many would be surprised how a responsible message in these forums is taken and can change the course of the roadmap. You don't have to be a coder to contribute to Kodi or the community.

[right.vote]

Though a user for 1/2 dozen years, I've gotten kind of anti-tech in my old age and don't fiddle with settings much. And have not done any programming since Fortran days.

That said - I've also gone back to Confluence after a bit of trying to like Estuary (win7, Kodi17.0). Some simple little things were important to me as there isn't all that much I actually DO use - so when one of them falls off it's noteworthy.

The single biggest irk was lack of a "Home" button to get back to start with a single click. It seems one has to right click enough times to step back, layer by layer, to get to Home. That's a pain.

Nearly as irksome - maybe worse, now that I think of it - is the microscopic slider to scroll thru the thumbnail string of movies. So small the mouse pointer always slips off several times when trying to scroll. If you have a large collection of stored titles that's a killer!

But Confluence under v17 seems fine with the exception of a missing sub-tab for "recently added" in the Movies tab. Again, that's a big deal for me (main way I keep track of what I want to watch soon), and the short list of only 5 recently added movies is far too short a list.

Anyway - my 2 cents from a run-of-the-mill user

[TRaSH]

The last issues can easily be solved with a playlist.
I always disliked the default recently added because it also showed the watched shows.
Now I made a playlist that only shows the unplayed items.
And in my case also separate the kids movies from the main movies.

Verstuurd vanaf mijn GT-I9505 met Tapatalk

[AnthonyB]

Thanks PatK and right.vote - really appreciate you both sharing your thoughts. Sounds like we all have quite a bit in common

When it comes to the skin, I definitely appreciate that change is hard. Funnily enough, I'm a Prosci certified Change Management practitioner which focuses on the people element of change management so I'm well-versed in what I'm feeling. I guess that's why I wanted to lay my thoughts out on 'paper' and get some mature discussion which you've both provided (again, thanks )

I have added a couple of pieces of feedback/bugs on the Estuary sticky posts to capture these deficiencies. That said, I think key features like this really need a better way of capturing feedback and feature requests (e.g. uservoice.com) so there is a more structured (but still simple) way to crowdsource feedback.

@right.vote - I think you have also hit on a something that was bugging me but I couldn't work out what it was - lack of a real home screen.

I'm sure I'll move forward with Krypton simply because I have that IT geek gene that also wants to tinker and be on the latest build That said, I did skip v15 which was a complete lemon on Windows.

Thanks again to you both for sharing your thoughts.

[Ranbato]

As a long-time user with a 4-device setup I like the Krypton builds and was planning on updating until the final build came out.

I don't know if you use it, but the EDL editing/comskip functionality broke in the final build. Since I record shows OTA and do quick-and-dirty editing of some movies for my kids this is a deal-breaker for me.