XBMC "BACK" verses the "ESCAPE" button?

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migueld Offline
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Post: #16
kricker Wrote:This is the biggest change I hope for. I am often in context menus or some other dialog and escape closes some of them and backspace closes others. I'll make a list if it is helpful.

I don't recall cases where Esc doesn't close context menus, osds, etc.. could you cite some examples? Also which skins are you using? Thanks
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jmarshall Offline
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Post: #17
Agreed that "backspace" has difficulties due to the editcontrol problems. In this case, using "escape" is indeed probably the best option if we decide to go for a single key does everything type approach. Whether or not the majority of the users wish to sacrifice the screen-only behaviour of the escape key as it is currently is to be decided - I shall start asking around.

A "Home" action breaks in the case of dialogs being on screen (should we cancel them - in some cases, such as progress dialogs, this is tricky programatically), so that's not necessarily a good option.

As for "C". It's inconsistent as you'd have to press "C" to bring up the OSD while in fullscreen (music or video) yet if you weren't in fullscreen, pressing "C" does NOT bring up the OSD, rather it brings up the context menu for an item that may be completely unrelated to what is playing. Thus, we use a different key "M" that is mapped globally to show and close the OSD's no matter where you are.

Cheers,
Jonathan

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migueld Offline
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Post: #18
Cool, I appreciate your time and efforts on this.


jmarshall Wrote:As for "C". It's inconsistent as you'd have to press "C" to bring up the OSD while in fullscreen (music or video) yet if you weren't in fullscreen, pressing "C" does NOT bring up the OSD, rather it brings up the context menu for an item that may be completely unrelated to what is playing. Thus, we use a different key "M" that is mapped globally to show and close the OSD's no matter where you are.

Got it, I didn't know the osd could be displayed outside fullscreen.
(This post was last modified: 2008-10-10 04:59 by migueld.)
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jmarshall Offline
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Post: #19
Actually, one place that would not function well with a "universal back" thing (or at least it wouldn't be as obvious as in other places) is the filemanager.

Admittedly, not a high priority if you're on a box that already has decent filemanagement tools, but if you aren't (apple tv, xbox, in front of the telly on the couch and don't want to bring up a desktop) then it may well be a problem. ESCAPE if mapped to "parentdir" would be contextual (i.e. based on which list you were in) and you'd have to navigate up to the root in one of the lists (but not both) in order to exit from the screen.

Cheers,
Jonathan

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kricker Offline
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Post: #20
migueld Wrote:I don't recall cases where Esc doesn't close context menus, osds, etc.. could you cite some examples? Also which skins are you using? Thanks
Actually you are correct. I was speaking in reverse. It is "backspace" that does not close context menus and info menus "esc" closes those. But, and this is what I think spurs my confusion, "backspace" does close the Filemanger. Filemanager in PM3.HD is accessed from the settings menu. All of the sub menu settings are exited using "esc" and not "backspace". Filemanager on the other hand can be exited with "esc" and "backspace" provided your at a root level of the selected drive. Being someone used to an overall "back" button, as soon as I close the Filemanager (For some reason I am in there quite a bit) my brain switches to that mode. I forgot to think about what is a directory and what is a menu.

migueld Wrote:As a user I don't see why there needs to be a differentiation between screens and directories... When I navigate I really don't think of it that way. Personally, I'm used to the notion of going forward one screen, going back one screen regardless of type, as in the iPod, Apple Tv, Media portal.

This to me is more evident in Library mode, especially when navigating TV Shows. When you select a show, it shows you the seasons, then when you select a season it shows you the shows. If I want to select another TV show I go back a couple of "screens". As a user I just see them as screens, I don't think of them as directories.

By forcing the user to have Esc and Backspace for navigation, he's forced to think about which of the screens are screens and which are directories. I think this is just confusing and completely unnecessary.
My sentiments exactly

I did notice that the "menu" button opens a context menu and closes it as well. Sage has a similar behavior which I have grown accustom to. The button that opens an option dialog also closes that same dialog. This does happen in XBMC in FullScreen video mode. "m" opens and closes the player controls, "i" opens and closes the OSD info, "o" opens and closes the codec info. If this were universal throughout the GUI, I think most of my control issues would go away. I have also always disliked the "backspace" as smallstepback and have always changed it to stop.

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Eicar Offline
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Post: #21
Yes please! I only want one "back" button (like esc). It's all just a series of screens linked together.
When you push "back" you want to go back one screen. I think most non-geek users can relate to this as well.


Let's start a vote shall we? Big Grin

-Eicar
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ashlartowers Offline
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Post: #22
Perhaps we can try and implement this via an edited keymap.xml.

Are there any circumstances where applying a single key to back / escape would cause a conflict? Is there a way of defining which one take precedence?

If one could have it so that escape was the dominant action, but back was implemented when escape was inactive, it ought to have the "universal back" behaviour people are looking for.
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jmarshall Offline
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Post: #23
Yes, it's all keymappable.

Take a look how the BACKSPACE key works on the keyboard. There's probably only a few other sections you need to add map it to close.

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ashlartowers Offline
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Post: #24
I will investigate... :-D
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gstreet Offline
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Post: #25
Sukebe7 Wrote:Is there anyway to get the back button to actually go back to the previous video selection menu instead of rewinding the video?

i simply use the stopbutton on my remote instead of back when playing video.
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Swifty Offline
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Post: #26
Interesting I stumbled on this thread.. my girlfriend asked me the same thing yesterday Smile
"Can't we make it go back like in the old one? (mediaportal)"

Will have to tinker with the keymap later and see whats what.

Maybe we could have an option could be enabled to enable a ceiling to how far you go up in parent dirs before the command changes to previous window?

Ie.
TV Shows Root <--- Back causes previous window (or home)
Seasons <--- Back goes up one dir
Episodes <--- Back goes up one dir

It would be cool if you could define your own root somewhere for each view maybe?
This could be like the universal back command but would also work in stuff like file view as when you got to the root and pressed back it would take you home..
Hope that makes sense to someone other than me Tongue
(This post was last modified: 2009-01-13 13:34 by Swifty.)
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jmarshall Offline
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Post: #27
Again, that's how backspace works.

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CapnBry Offline
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Post: #28
This may be off topic but why do none of the settings dialogs support "back" to go back up the dialog chain? They support ACTION_PREVIOUS_MENU to go up one level (as opposed to back to Home), and no ACTION_PARENT_DIR to go up one level. Intentional?

EDIT: Settings dialogs being Settings -> Videos, Music, Pictures, Profiles, Weather, Network, System, Appearance
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jmarshall Offline
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Post: #29
Basically as they don't have directories, so that ACTION_PARENT_DIR doesn't really make much sense. Admittedly, this is due to the name of the #define more than anything else.

It's solvable via keymap.xml ofcourse (just map Backspace to PreviousMenu or whatever it is) though perhaps isn't as elegant as it could be.

Perhaps we should investigating calling it ACTION_PREVIOUS_LEVEL and do the changes on the code side instead. I think this has already been hacked in to some places using PARENT_DIR while some of us weren't paying too much attention Tongue

Cheers,
Jonathan

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Swifty Offline
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Post: #30
jmarshall Wrote:Again, that's how backspace works.

Thanks Jonathan,
Apologies if that's already been pointed out.. I was only skimming the thread as I was at work.
I didn't realise that backspace would make it work like that - will have to check it out when I get home.

Cheers!
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