HTPC With XBMC & PVR Software?
#1
Another vote for a dedicated hardware forum, BTW.

I happily run XBMC on my Xbox. The only thing I'd change would be to make it quieter but I tried a new fan without much success.

I am thinking of upgrading to an HTPC to avoid the noise and also to capture UK Digital Terrestrial shows to add to my XBMC Library. I already have a standard PVR so this would be purely to capture shows to Hard Disk. I want to set programs to record over a web interface, so the capture software would have to run in the background leaving XBMC centre stage.

Two questions:
1) Should I worry about running a PVR and XBMC concurrently?
2) Is there a recommended Digital Terrestrial PVR solution? I've seen Nebula's DigiTV recommended before.

Any advice appreciated.
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#2
DavidA Wrote:I happily run XBMC on my Xbox. The only thing I'd change would be to make it quieter but I tried a new fan without much success.

I am thinking of upgrading to an HTPC to avoid the noise and also to capture UK Digital Terrestrial shows to add to my XBMC Library. I already have a standard PVR so this would be purely to capture shows to Hard Disk. I want to set programs to record over a web interface, so the capture software would have to run in the background leaving XBMC centre stage.

I would support the idea of building an HTPC 100%. I bought a 1TB Seagate drive for ~$120USD from Newegg, including free 3-day shipping, and a 8800gt video card for about the same. The 8800gt is outfitted with a massive passive heatsink, so it generates no noise. The case is outfitted with two Vantech Silent 92mm fans and, with Speedfan throttling the (stock) CPU HSF, the noise ranges from moderate (while transcoding and such) to dead silent. With S3 standby, the machine can start and stop instantly, and I am having a blast with it (when using dxva, it can play 1080p w/ approx. 6% CPU usage and zero noise!). I am using a pair of Hauppauge PVR-1600 cards (~$70/ea. - make sure to get the ones that support ClearQAM!), and it is working like a charm.

GB-PVR is the PVR solution that I have the most experience with, and it is certainly possible to schedule recordings via. web interface. I am sure the other options are similarly robust. The web interface looks nice, with channel icons for each channel in your lineup and options for searching for shows, setting up regular recordings, streaming video via. the web-interface, etc. It's fun to watch UFC from work! You can also instruct the software to automagically remove commercials and transcode video after recording.

DavidA Wrote:1) Should I worry about running a PVR and XBMC concurrently?
Not at all. You can even run XBMC on the HTPC - just be sure to patch ffmpeg to support AVIsynth so you can use DShow for dxva. Not using hardware acceleration is just plain silly.

DavidA Wrote:2) Is there a recommended Digital Terrestrial PVR solution? I've seen Nebula's DigiTV recommended before.
I'm in the states, so we use ATSC - I think DVB and such work similarly, though. My tuner works just fine with ATSC. I live in an area that doesn't receive broadcast signals (mountains), so I split my cable input and tune using both the NTSC tuner and the ATSC tuner (simultaneously, even). If I were to receive broadcast instead, I think I could just substitute the receiver or antennae inputs for the cable. I think this has more to do with your hardware than software, though.
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#3
Thanks for the comprehensive response Achoo.

I'm new to HTPCs. Do I use a motherboard with a HDMI out (inc audio) and just use the graphics card for image processing somehow? I have a spare passive 7900GS. I love Antec cases so I'd probably try and find one of those with an IR function. Does that sound right?

Regarding point 1, to clarify I'd like to run PVR software and XBMC software on the HTPC. From what you say provided provided I set them up correctly I won't have a problem running them concurrently.

Is there any software that saves shows in an XBMC Library friendly format? e.g. Lost.s01e01.avi?
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#4
I run a HTPC with XBMC and Beyond TV (DVR software) and it works great. If you want more info, check out the link in my sig. I have a lot of details on that page. I'm using a motherboard with HDMI out, but use optical for digital audio to my surround receiver.
HTPC= AMD Athlon X2 BE-2350 l Gigabyte GA-MA78GM-S2H 780G l G Skill 2GB l HVR-1800 l PVR-150 l Ultra MicroFly Case l 180GB SATA l 250GB IDE
Old HTPC Build / Current 780G HTPC Build / My Website
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#5
I currently run GB-PVR and XBMC on the same machine.
I usually switch between apps (using my remote) when I want to watch TV or XBMC content.
Seems to work fine for me.
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#6
I can also state that running XBMC on a Windows MCE machine, and using MCE to record Pay TV, and DVB WEbscheduler to record Digital TV Chanels that I cannot get via payTV.

What I do, is get them recorded on the HTPC in MSDVR format, and an automated program called Crunchie converts them to a MPEG4 AVI file and moves them onto my 2Tb server out in the back room. Once that process is completed, I can watch the recordings at my leisure, but it does take ~24hours for them to be moved and compressed in batches, but it is reliable.

Both MCE and Webscheduler can be controlled via Webinterfaces, with MCE needing the Webguide free addon.
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#7
DavidA Wrote:Thanks for the comprehensive response Achoo.
You are most welcome. I suffered a lot of confusion when building my rig, so feel assured you are not alone. The suggestions from the other users are all solid, too. I think it will come down to personal preference in choosing which applications you use. I really love XBMC, but aside from using it to make my friends' eyes pop out (mostly the fanart), the utility offered by some of the other options (GB-PVR, for me) have me reaching for the alternatives first.

DavidA Wrote:I'm new to HTPCs. Do I use a motherboard with a HDMI out (inc audio) and just use the graphics card for image processing somehow? I have a spare passive 7900GS.
I would skip integrated video (and all its connectors) for a dedicated video card. I didn't see any indication of what kind of display you will be using, but the connection you will use will depend on that information. Be aware that none of the video cards I would recommend currently have the ability to send audio out over the HDMI cable, so falling back to DVI isn't a big drawback (so long as your display supports it). It is also true that the only sources you're likely to have that would require HDCP are Bluray drives, and software like AnyDVD can bypass that requirement. Anything you record yourself or download will be copy-protection free, so you will only need to base your connection choice according to your tastes in fidelity.

The 7900GS would be a fine card to build your initial configuration around. It is fast enough that you could have a lot of fun playing Madden 08 and such on the HTPC. Most softwares will allow you to add menu items to launch games, so having a decent card is a plus. However, be aware that the 7xxx series of NVidia cards does not support the newer revisions of dxva - it can decode the basic MPEG2 streams that your tuner will grab, but modern CPUs can already decode them without issue. The newer cards (8600 and up, if I recall correctly) have full support for the more modern and advanced video codecs. This is vitally important, as even a burly CPU can not decode 1080p video without a plethora of artifacts - stuttering, loss of audio sync, etc. If you can afford to drop $130 on a 8800gt (especially one with the Accelero passive heatsink!), then you will be able to play those same 1080p videos with only 6-10% CPU usage and nary a whisper.

DavidA Wrote:I love Antec cases so I'd probably try and find one of those with an IR function. Does that sound right?
Antec makes nice cases, indeed. They even, if I recall correctly, make a case specially designed for HTPC applications. It looks like your Tuner/Amp combo, and some of them even have little touch-screen LCDs on the front. Very boss! However, the TV tuner cards that you will be adding to your computer will provide the IR (or UHF) remote functionality. You can also buy standalone remote solutions (like the MS "beanbag"). The ~$70 Hauppage cards I am so fond of each come with a 45-button remote control, an IR receiver that can be mounted fairly discretely, and an IR blaster that can be used to control external tuners (like a satellite tuner, cable box, VCR, etc). The Hauppage remotes are supported natively by a huge number of applications (the cards have been popular since the advent of PC-based DVD players - computers of the time couldn't decode the video fast enough w/o hardware devices), and it is possible to emulate keyboard commands on an application-by-application basis by editing a few files. The only app I can't get to work is XBMC! A lot of users eventually upgrade to a more robust remote, like the Harmony line from Logitech, but I have not yet made the switch.

DavidA Wrote:Regarding point 1, to clarify I'd like to run PVR software and XBMC software on the HTPC. From what you say provided provided I set them up correctly I won't have a problem running them concurrently.
Absolutely correct. Although I primarily use GB-PVR, I have played around with BeyondTV, Meedio, SageTV, MythTV (under a virtual OS install), XBMC, MediaPortal, and several other packages without any trouble whatsoever.

DavidA Wrote:Is there any software that saves shows in an XBMC Library friendly format? e.g. Lost.s01e01.avi?
Pretty much any package you use will have options for file naming conventions. GB-PVR defaults to something like, "Heroes_20081013_21002200.mpg", where Heroes is the name of the show, and the show aired between 9:00 and 10:00 PM on 10/13/2008. XBMC seems to like the format just fine, but you can alter the post-recording batch file to rename, transcode, strip commercials, or otherwise modify the recording. Because whatever solution you end up with will also have EPG data, it is also generally possible to name shows using background information, such as the episode name.

The cool thing about building a HTPC is that it is highly modular, both in terms of hardware and software. You can start with something basic and add pieces as you (or your wallet) grow. If I were starting from scratch, I'd buy a basic Core 2 Duo board and chip, the hard-drive that provides the best bang-for-the-buck (1 or 1.5 TB 7200RPM, probably), a 9800GT, a Hauppage 1600 (making sure to get the one that supports QAM), a cheapo DVD burner, a copy of GB-PVR (free), a copy of AnyDVD-HD, a copy of Daemon Tools Lite (free), and all the standalone DirectShow filters from MediaPlayerClassic-HomeCinema (they will enable dxva on newer cards without having to shell out for NVidia or Cyberlink decoders).

FYI, this is the kind of videocard/heatsink package I have. Zero fans, and dead quiet!

Good luck in your project - I'd very much like to hear from you when you start getting it all together!

Your friend,
Achoo
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#8
Thanks everyone. Great replies. I think this could be an interesting project.

I was hoping for a HDMI out so that I could hook it up to my HDMI TV with sound. I guess I'll have to work out how to get my TV to take video through HDMI and audio through something else. It's a Bravia, which I bought last year. Hopefully it should be okay.

My TV is only 720p, so I'm not worried too much about upgrading my card to do decoding on the fly. Presumably my Freeview (terrestrial digital) streams are saved in their native MPEG2 streams so encoding isn't necessary. I take the point that naming can be fairly flexible - I suppose whether I can save as Lost.s01e01.avi depends on whether than information is available via the EPG.

At the moment my Xbox XBMC is controlled with an existing, wife-friendly all in one remote. I want an IR solution that will work with my current remote, but I suppose that won't be too hard. I'll be avoiding the Harmony remotes - I've tried one in the past and subsequently binned it.

So... something like...
- Antec HTPC case
- HTPC suitable motherboard. Probably ASUS.
- Decent Intel processor
- 1 GB RAM
- DVD-Writer
- Haupage TV card (with IR functionality)

So as I write that, two things

1) Can I use XBMC as a DVD player provided I have a DVD-Rom?
2) Will the Haupage TV card give me IR control of XBMC?

dhrandy, I found your page really helpful. For a simple man such as myself, pictures are very helpful Wink
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#9
dhrandy Wrote:I run a HTPC with XBMC and Beyond TV (DVR software) and it works great. If you want more info, check out the link in my sig. I have a lot of details on that page. I'm using a motherboard with HDMI out, but use optical for digital audio to my surround receiver.

This must be a good solution. I have been using MediaPortal, so i will be missing the tv option.
Just to program a shortcut on the logitech remote to start Beyond Smile.

I hope there will be a TV option in xbmc in the future Smile
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#10
XBMC can work with Myth backend servers to view recorded and Live TV - no I've nto done this. As for HDMI audio and 1080P capable video... -> http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/Public...er=9999386
Openelec Gotham, MCE remote(s), Intel i3 NUC, DVDs fed from unRAID cataloged by DVD Profiler. HD-DVD encoded with Handbrake to x.264. Yamaha receiver(s)
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#11
I am running XBMC with BeyondTV also. I was using MP but it wasnt quite stable enough for the non-tv parts compared to XBMC and its TV isn't nearly as good as BTV. I am an avid linux user but Myth seemed to be a little too much work to get a PVR working (this was 3 years ago), and the tuners I have now arent very well supported in Myth.
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#12
DavidA Wrote:Another vote for a dedicated hardware forum, BTW.

I happily run XBMC on my Xbox. The only thing I'd change would be to make it quieter but I tried a new fan without much success.

I am thinking of upgrading to an HTPC to avoid the noise and also to capture UK Digital Terrestrial shows to add to my XBMC Library. I already have a standard PVR so this would be purely to capture shows to Hard Disk. I want to set programs to record over a web interface, so the capture software would have to run in the background leaving XBMC centre stage.

....

if all you want is a quieter fan, have you tried the fan speed option in settings for xbmc on xbox? can reduce quiet a lot of noise after startup

cant remember my settings off hand, but it defo mates a huge difference.

regards,
Dam0
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#13
My setup is this
P4 3.2ghz
2 gig ram
1 tb drive
nvidia 7900gt
xp sp3
dvd to hdmi (1920x1080 60 hz)
Lg 42" hdtv 100hz

now the video quality is not the best but i believe this a hardware issue as mush as it is a xbmc issue. What nvidia video card are best for HD Playback. I can get a fanless 8400gs for cheap but want to be able to run bluray in the future or a least HD rips. I was running meedio for about 2 years but made the swap to my main HTPC when i got my new tv a few weeks backs as xbmc just works i love it.
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#14
frank75 Wrote:This must be a good solution. I have been using MediaPortal, so i will be missing the tv option.
Just to program a shortcut on the logitech remote to start Beyond Smile.

I hope there will be a TV option in xbmc in the future Smile

I'm hoping for this as well. Built-in PVR functionality in XBMC would be awesome Big Grin
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HTPC With XBMC & PVR Software?0