I built what I think is the ultimate HTPC for XBMC, now I am selling it...
#1
Guys and gals,

I believe I built the ultimate media-phile machine for XBMC. Let me know what you think. I was pondering hawking it on eBay for my cost (indicated below) + 30% (is that a reasonable margin?). Here it is:

The machine sports everything out of the box. HDMI output, digital coax and optical output, VGA connector (if you really want), 8 channel audio (per miniplugs, six USB ports. Really just an 'On switch', no gadgetry about CPU speed or other useless info). Cool 'n quiet architecture (AMD). This system plays everything you throw at it, the CPU is definitely powerful enough. With XP, Media Center, Vista it also plays HDCP. I have only been able to locate the Sony Bluray slimline for $340, which is hefty. You can get an external Bluray for $130.

The total dimensions of the case are 390 x 68 x 348 mm. If you know of a smaller case (multiply all dimensions), let me know. Notice this case has a fanless power supply.

I bought a Silverstone LC19 case (comes in black or silver, I got black) for $200,-, an ASUS M3N78-EMH (NVIDEOA 8200 onboard, no fan necessary) for $85, open box items for $20 less), 2GB or memory for $20,-, and AMD 4050e CPU (notice the e for heat and wattage) for $70 and a Silverstone SST-NT07-AM2 CPU cooler for $29,-. You can add a 500GB drive for $51.

AMD does not sell the wires from the motherboard to optical and coax out, so I bought them off eBay for $20,-

Cost of total system: $529,- rock bottom, add 30%=$690,-.

I understand that a significantly cheaper system can be built but certainly not this small and quiet. Considering the power of this system (the only multimedia box that supports just about anything you throw at it, including VFR - my main reason for building it, there is no set-top box on the market today that supports it). There is no existing set top box that supports the variety of video and audio. Forget Popcorn and Tvix (I am selling mine on eBay).

Notice I actually built and tested this system. Besides the necessity to Flash the motherboard first thing to get it working right it went in a hitch. I'd say it can be put together in an hour if you know what you are doing.

This would be an XP machine running XBMC, vanilla. You would have to get an IR least a remote for $30,-. So add that for the price.

I added some more goodies to my machine, i.e. running XP instead. ($85). If you really, really want media center, it's $110 or you can get a Vista edition (not recommended) for about the same price. SP 1 is so-so and I understand a new service pack is in the works and I bought one but went back to XP.

I also put in a 1TB drive for $50 more. I also got the Microsoft remote with their wireless keyboard which adds $80,-. One could offer a standard keyboard and optical mouse (generic stuff) for $25,-.

I also added a wireless N AP for $50,- (external). I guess you could go for an internal card at about the same price but I wanted to be able to plug in more devices since it is somewhere totally different in the house. The connection is rock-solid through many walls.

I ditched the XBMC FTP and run Filezilla server which is extremely powerful, reliable and feature rich. I need to sync the content between the box and some local drives and the only way to use a good piece of software for FTP syncing requires a rock solid FTP server.

I know the vanilla Tvix 4100SH sells for $370 but it does not support a fraction of the formats, has no DVD ROM player, it's FTP server only supports one connection and constantly craps out, does not support remote desktop, does not support VFR, does not support DRM (my configuration supports wired Ethernet Internet access but as I suggested I got the Access point instead). Tvix only supports two external USB drives, this box supports at least six directly off the case and however many you want off a USB hub. You also have to add the cost of a hard drive to the Tvix if you actually want it to be a media server. If you manage to play an ISO on this box without it hanging up at least once, you are lucky. It does not play six channel AAC either, in any container, only AC3.

Popcorn plain sucks.

Feedback? Is this something you think someone could sell?

Note I am not trying to peddle the box here and will not sell it here (I'll tell you where to get the parts).
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#2
any pics?

have you tried it with xbmc live?
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#3
rernst Wrote:The total dimensions of the case are 390 x 68 x 348 mm. If you know of a smaller case (multiply all dimensions), let me know. Notice this case has a fanless power supply.

Bwuhaha mine is smaller Wink

http://www.mini-itx.com/reviews/3688/
Case dimensions: 65mm(H) x 210mm(D) x 258mm(W)

e8400
G45 Chipset
HDMI out, s/pdif the works.

Fanless PSU and room for DVD/Rom slimeline and 2.5" HDD (but who wants HDD when you run on USB)

I havent added a DVD/Rom because I so rarely use it and have used the extra space for a bigger fan.

P.S I think the LC-19 and or the LC-09 looks better than my case but I had serious size restrictions on this build

Cheers,
Tobias
If you have problems please read this before posting

Always read the XBMC online-manual, FAQ and search the forum before posting.
Do not e-mail XBMC-Team members directly asking for support. Read/follow the forum rules.
For troubleshooting and bug reporting please make sure you read this first.

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"Well Im gonna download the code and look at it a bit but I'm certainly not a really good C/C++ programer but I'd help as much as I can, I mostly write in C#."
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#4
Topfs2 Wrote:Bwuhaha mine is smaller Wink

Laugh Big Grin thats not something I would boast about Rofl
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#5
Topfs2 Wrote:Bwuhaha mine is smaller Wink

http://www.mini-itx.com/reviews/3688/
Case dimensions: 65mm(H) x 210mm(D) x 258mm(W)

e8400
G45 Chipset
HDMI out, s/pdif the works.

Fanless PSU and room for DVD/Rom slimeline and 2.5" HDD (but who wants HDD when you run on USB)

I havent added a DVD/Rom because I so rarely use it and have used the extra space for a bigger fan.

P.S I think the LC-19 and or the LC-09 looks better than my case but I had serious size restrictions on this build

Cheers,
Tobias

True, but pretty severe limitations as to what motherboard you can stick in there. Still it looks like a nice case but connectivity is limited. Doesn't seem to take any expansion cards but it's a tradeoff between size and heat. WHat sort of processor do you run in there?

What is the total noise output, do you know. I would like to measure mine but don't quite know how.

I must say the LC case looks more like a shelf piece next to a nice Ars Technica setup but size does matter for some. The Tvix and Popcorn have a very small footprint and that appeals to the hackers in us.

That being said - do you think these custom-built machines can be turned into a real business?

(BTW, I am still awaiting my slimline drive which contrary to my expectations could not just be picked up at Fry's).

I do disagree on one point, though and that is swapping the internal drive for a USB standalone. That sort-of defeats the idea of simple, elegant and fool-proof design. I am still struggling with that part. I do not believe the integration of ripping into XBMC is a good idea. There are just superior solutions (may I mention Handbrake again) which do an outstanding job. I transferred my whole Tvix over a day using FTP (Filezilla client and server) from my old Tvix box. I have three quadcores cranking on 100+ episodes on Bab 5 (done with that) and 50+ DVDs of X-Files (yeah, I like this stuff). They put out enormous heat. To expect a player to do this sort of thing is not seeing the box as a playback device but merely another computer. It also adds more noise and do you really want to have two more cords dangling next to the Bang & Olufson? ;-)

I operate the whole thing using a trivial remote now except when I do Netflix Watch Now which I completely legitimately watch through their player but I have to switch out of XBMC into IE. That is not what the average Joe should have to do and a solution would be great. I mean how hard is it to fire up an IE clone (the whole of the IE core is available to slap together your own browser). Yes, I hate being tied to XP but having used Linux, XP and Vista extensively I still consider Linux in the 'multimedia trial stage', where XP is a fully mature system. We all hate DRM but it is a reality and unless you are going to take up the good fight with Netflix to watch your free videos under Linux in half a decade from now you have to go with the motions.

But then if the whole thing might be a money maker I'd try to put some effort into integrating this into XBMC myself. They sell an absolutely dumb box (no browsing, no true selecting movies, no hard drive buffering) for 100 bucks. XBMC could throw this in just for grins.

I will have a closer look at your case. It is half of the LC 19, which is nice.

One final word I forgot: It just might be that the commercial viability also hinges on the relaxation of the Digital Rights Act to provide for fair use of material that you legitimately own. I cannot help but believe that the MPAA is eventually going to cave in on that as it would *increase sales*, not increase piracy. Once that is taken care of every Tom Disk and Harry will want to load their 700 DVDs instead of buying a 100 DVD changer.
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#6
Topfs2 Wrote:Bwuhaha mine is smaller Wink

http://www.mini-itx.com/reviews/3688/
Case dimensions: 65mm(H) x 210mm(D) x 258mm(W)

e8400
G45 Chipset
HDMI out, s/pdif the works.

Fanless PSU and room for DVD/Rom slimeline and 2.5" HDD (but who wants HDD when you run on USB)

I havent added a DVD/Rom because I so rarely use it and have used the extra space for a bigger fan.

P.S I think the LC-19 and or the LC-09 looks better than my case but I had serious size restrictions on this build

Cheers,
Tobias
Does the stock CPU fan fit in there?
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#7
Topfs2 Wrote:e8400
G45 Chipset
HDMI out, s/pdif the works.

Tobias, I have really spent my whole day finding components and case for a XBMC pc (time to retire the xbox) but have not been 100% satisfied with my findings.

Your spec seams really nice. Want to share what cooler, mobo (DG45FC perhaps?) and CPU you used in this build?

And is 60W really all you need? Or did you change that to a picoPSU 120W ?

Sincerly
Tuneld
Sweden Smile
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#8
You cant build an ultimate machine with an amd proccesor. They suck at 1080p video decoding compared to intel.
HTPC 1 : Acer revo R3700 ion2 HTPC 2 :Apple TV2 HTPC 3 : Apple TV2 HTPC4 Acer revo R3700 ion2 Remote : x2 Riimote2
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#9
rernst Wrote:Does the stock CPU fan fit in there?

Barely, the new versions of the Intel Coolers (low profile) does but you cant have a 2.5" HDD and DVD-Drive if you use the Intel cooler.

NorthQ have one with the zalman design that would fit I believe whilst still being able to have HDD and DVD

Tuneld Wrote:Tobias, I have really spent my whole day finding components and case for a XBMC pc (time to retire the xbox) but have not been 100% satisfied with my findings.

Your spec seams really nice. Want to share what cooler, mobo (DG45FC perhaps?) and CPU you used in this build?

And is 60W really all you need? Or did you change that to a picoPSU 120W ?

Sincerly
Tuneld
Sweden Smile

You guessed correctly its the
Intel DG45FC
Intel e8400 (actually switched it to a e4300 now because I dont need 1080p playback and my gaming computer needs more horsepower Wink )
2 GB ram
The biggest problem was to find a PSU, I really didnt dare to use the bundled PSU because it probably idle below 60 but during the boot Im guessing at 80W.
I bought the PW-200M from mini-box (As your from sweden I bought if from http://www.mini-pc.se
I wouldnt run it on less than the PicoPSU 120, even according to specs my PSU lacks power on the 3.3v rail but hey, it works Smile

rernst Wrote:True, but pretty severe limitations as to what motherboard you can stick in there. Still it looks like a nice case but connectivity is limited. Doesn't seem to take any expansion cards but it's a tradeoff between size and heat. WHat sort of processor do you run in there?

What is the total noise output, do you know. I would like to measure mine but don't quite know how. ...

I aimed to keep it small so it would fit in my bookshelf but yeah ideally I would have wanted to have an expansion slot for TV Tuner or better audio card.

The bundled 40x40 fan must go its really noisy. Also the case seems to magnify the 40x40s fan noise with the cover, but that might be due to the fact that the bundled 40x40 spins fast.

Cheers,
Tobias
If you have problems please read this before posting

Always read the XBMC online-manual, FAQ and search the forum before posting.
Do not e-mail XBMC-Team members directly asking for support. Read/follow the forum rules.
For troubleshooting and bug reporting please make sure you read this first.

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"Well Im gonna download the code and look at it a bit but I'm certainly not a really good C/C++ programer but I'd help as much as I can, I mostly write in C#."
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#10
That's a beautiful case. I'm surprised since last time I checked, the HTPC cases from silverstone were not very appealing. Nice work, thanks for sharing.

My only issue is... what happens if and when Apple adds blu-ray to the Mac Mini? Suppose that Apple prices such machine at $799. That machine would be capable to play anything you trow at it, would have smallest footprint, and OSX's sleep function means that it's instant on. Wireless N. Completely silent. How would a custom HTPC compete with this? It's tough competition.

Personally a killer HTPC should have an amazing PVR system, equal or better than Tivo. OR should be a server/HTPC combo and should be able to host 5 or 6 drives. Preferably all inside the case, no external devices, and as elegant as possible. That would beat the Mac Mini hands down.
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#11
Quote:e8400
G45 Chipset
HDMI out, s/pdif the works.

Is the on the linux or windows build? Im having problems getting s/pdif out to work on the linux build. Any help would be appreciated.
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#12
QuietTime Wrote:Is the on the linux or windows build? Im having problems getting s/pdif out to work on the linux build. Any help would be appreciated.

Linux build but Im not using s/pdif actually, I can´t live without my stereo Smile

Anyway I´ve read that its supposed to work but you need to be sure you have un-muted it in alsamixer (I reckong gnome-volume-control should do the trick aswell)

Hopefully you get it to work
HDMI Audio is a no go due to drivers, although I get some form of audio out of it, I can make out the navigation sounds through the static. It will probably work in interpid+1.

Cheers, hope you get it working.
Tobias
If you have problems please read this before posting

Always read the XBMC online-manual, FAQ and search the forum before posting.
Do not e-mail XBMC-Team members directly asking for support. Read/follow the forum rules.
For troubleshooting and bug reporting please make sure you read this first.

Image

"Well Im gonna download the code and look at it a bit but I'm certainly not a really good C/C++ programer but I'd help as much as I can, I mostly write in C#."
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#13
migueld Wrote:That's a beautiful case. I'm surprised since last time I checked, the HTPC cases from silverstone were not very appealing. Nice work, thanks for sharing.

My only issue is... what happens if and when Apple adds blu-ray to the Mac Mini? Suppose that Apple prices such machine at $799. That machine would be capable to play anything you trow at it, would have smallest footprint, and OSX's sleep function means that it's instant on. Wireless N. Completely silent. How would a custom HTPC compete with this? It's tough competition.

Personally a killer HTPC should have an amazing PVR system, equal or better than Tivo. OR should be a server/HTPC combo and should be able to host 5 or 6 drives. Preferably all inside the case, no external devices, and as elegant as possible. That would beat the Mac Mini hands down.

New Apple mini would be lovely! but I cant see how your killer PVR would beat it, 5-6 drives makes ALOT of noise, not talking about the size of the thing. I say NO to servers in my living room Wink

Also silverstone make some great looking cases, the one rernst choosed is really good looking, same with LC-09
If you have problems please read this before posting

Always read the XBMC online-manual, FAQ and search the forum before posting.
Do not e-mail XBMC-Team members directly asking for support. Read/follow the forum rules.
For troubleshooting and bug reporting please make sure you read this first.

Image

"Well Im gonna download the code and look at it a bit but I'm certainly not a really good C/C++ programer but I'd help as much as I can, I mostly write in C#."
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#14
Topfs2 Wrote:New Apple mini would be lovely! but I cant see how your killer PVR would beat it, 5-6 drives makes ALOT of noise, not talking about the size of the thing. I say NO to servers in my living room Wink

Also silverstone make some great looking cases, the one rernst choosed is really good looking, same with LC-09

The cases I like most are the Zalman HTPC cases, but the obvious downside is the price tag Undecided Regarding noisy hard drives, I'm very familiar with silentpcreview.com and I'm a silence freak Laugh so it's familiar ground to me. My drives don't make much noise (I got 1TB green power drives). I know what you mean by noisy servers; I would say that one needs to be very careful when choosing components.
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#15
harryzimm Wrote:You cant build an ultimate machine with an amd proccesor. They suck at 1080p video decoding compared to intel.

Where did you get that from? The 4050e that I have has no problems. It also software upscales easily. Intel is overrated and adds another $100 to a box that you might spend better.

BTW, I now finished mine with coax and optical output and a slim DVD drive.

I have yet to find a better-looking and more capable machine. I added a remote keyboard ($50, IR) and fully loaded remote (media remote via eventghost).
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