[poofyhairguy]

I wanted to put together the different advantages and disadvantages of the different XBMC versions based on what I know. If I am wrong about anything please correct me. PVR advantages and disadvantages in bold as of 12/18/10.

XBMC OSX

Advantages:


1. Sophisticated Logitech Harmony remote support.
2. Works on Apple TV once hacked.
3. "Just Works" digital optical out.
4. Hardware accelerated Flash.
5. PCM HDMI support on newest version of Mac Minis
4. Maybe easiest to use version.

Disadvantages

1. No hardware playback acceleration outside of Broadcom and very particular Nvidia cards
2. No magical matching of video source FPS as display rate.
3. DTS-HD and Dolby TrueHD files destroy this version- nothing better than regular DTS or AC3 can be bitstreamed. Considering that Steve Jobs considers Blu Ray playback to be a "bag of hurt" and Blu Ray playback on a platform is what often brings bitstreaming support I wouldn't expect to see support any time soon.

XBMC LINUX


Advantages

1. Has specialty distro with intention of making XBMC appliance.
2. Has hardware playback acceleration for recent Nvidia GPUs, Intel GPUs, ATI GPUs, and Broadcom cards.
3. Working magical matching of video source FPS as display rate for Nvidia GPUs
4. Working HDMI- including 7 channel uncompressed audio on some boards once configured and Dolby True-HD decoding
5. Works on hacked Apple TV.
6. Advanced scripting and Lirc customization.
7. Is able to have hardware playback acceleration for raw FLV with streaming sities that allow you to have access to the feed (CBS, Youtube)
5. Ability to use TVHeadend as a backend for PVR functions.


Disadvantages

1. Linux is hardest OS to work with traditionally- LIRC in particular is a pain.
2. No stable hardware accelerated Flash for streaming sites. There is a beta that mostly works.
3. Even with working HDMI and 7 channel support, this version cannot decode DTS HD files to PCM - you only get the DTS core unless you convert it to FLAC using eac3to
4. Linux HD Audio bitstreaming is so new it is not in XBMC Live yet.

XBMC WINDOWS

Advantages

1. Has hardware accelerated Flash in 10.1.
2. Has hardware playback acceleration for almost any GPU that can do so.
3. Working magical matching of video source FPS as display rate.
4. Working HDMI- including 7 channel uncompressed audio
5. Ability to use Mediaportal backend, with added support of fast channel changing and time shifting.

Disadvantages

1. No HD Bitstreaming support in most recent official stable release, you have to use DS Player build
2. Different Windows versions support differing hardware acceleration features (DXVA vs DXVA2) necessitating in some cases newest version - XP is dead
3. Compared to minimal Linux install, Windows requires more system resources.
4. In Dharma XBMC you cannot enable de-interlacing and DXVA

[cbrunhaver]

I like the intention of this post but I think it is a bit more nuanced than this. For instance, citing that LIRC is hard but not stating the windows HD audio bit streaming or ffdsow tweaking is also (hard), I think that is more of an expression of personal experience / preference.

Also, FLV files are hardware accelerated under VDPAU in XBMC (linux) just not flash on the whole. As such 1080P streaming stuff form the CBS plugin or youtube plugin work great.

By the way, there is no such thing as AC3 HD (only dolby digital plus (lossy) TrueHD (lossless)).

By the way, I've never used the Mac or ATV version and so I still learned some good tidbits from this!

[poofyhairguy]

I like the intention of this post but I think it is a bit more nuanced than this. For instance, citing that LIRC is hard but not stating the windows HD audio bit streaming or ffdsow tweaking is also (hard), I think that is more of an expression of personal experience / preference.

Also, FLV files are hardware accelerated under VDPAU in XBMC (linux) just not flash on the whole. As such 1080P streaming stuff form the CBS plugin or youtube plugin work great.

By the way, there is no such thing as AC3 HD (only dolby digital plus (lossy) TrueHD (lossless)).

By the way, I've never used the Mac or ATV version and so I still learned some good tidbits from this!

I want to add in as much nuance as possible. Thanks for the suggestions, I tried to fix everything up!

I was just being lazy saying AC3 HD audio, so I fixed that. And I didn't think about the FLV acceleration, so that is added.

As far as the easy/hard thing goes, I do agree much of it personal preference but some of it is common sense. Doing nothing but having the right optical audio cable for OSX is easier than properly configuring your optical out in Windows using AC3 filter or whatever. But even the Windows configuration is a walk in the park compared using alsaconfig from a command line from anyone who is not a Unix geek in the Linux version. Sure some hardware setups don't need to go through these steps but that is more due to luck than advantages of particular platforms.

So I will try to point out all difficulties and particular points of ease when one platform is easier or more difficult than another by a large margin in common tasks.

[booknut]

This is good stuff. I'm on the fence between Windows 7 and a minimal Ubuntu installation. This kind of information helps.

I still like the low overhead of a minimal Ubuntu installation, even if it is harder to work with. I'm not afraid of CLI and I have worked with Windows long enough not to be deluded about its "user friendliness".

I only wished somebody could get Dolby True-HD and DTS HD-MA working in Linux.

[GJones]

But even the Windows configuration is a walk in the park compared using alsaconfig from a command line from anyone who is not a Unix geek in the Linux version. Sure some hardware setups don't need to go through these steps but that is more due to luck than advantages of particular platforms.

Buying the right hardware is not due to luck. You can buy a cheap ION platform (Acer Revo 1600 or 3610) and have XBMC Live running flawlessly in no time. Add the right remote control (Windows MCE remote) and you have a much easier setup than any other combination.

You need to separate your usage of the system with the goals of XBMC. It is hard to argue that XBMC Live on ION hardware fails to meet expectations of a media center device. If, however, you plan to use it as a complete desktop, that is a completely different question. The "common tasks" to which you refer seem to have more to do with the creation of media and web browsing versus media display.

Many of us have media shared on a network drive. It is already being created. It is already being stored. We merely expect XBMC to present it. This should be the basis for comparison.

[poofyhairguy]

I only wished somebody could get Dolby True-HD and DTS HD-MA working in Linux.

So after following this guide:

http://forum.xbmc.org/showthread.php?tid=71609

I was able to get:

5.1 LPCM
5.1 Dolby True-HD (decoded to 5.1 PCM on the fly)

Working with my Blu Ray rips. I corrected my comparison accordingly.

DTS HD does not work, but I had success in Windows converting those rips to 6 channel FLAC using eac3to.

Honestly though the DTS-HD does pass through the HDMI that nice DTS core which is all my equipment really can take (I have a sub $400 sound system).

It is very good news though....

[poofyhairguy]

Buying the right hardware is not due to luck. You can buy a cheap ION platform (Acer Revo 1600 or 3610) and have XBMC Live running flawlessly in no time. Add the right remote control (Windows MCE remote) and you have a much easier setup than any other combination.

You need to separate your usage of the system with the goals of XBMC. It is hard to argue that XBMC Live on ION hardware fails to meet expectations of a media center device. If, however, you plan to use it as a complete desktop, that is a completely different question. The "common tasks" to which you refer seem to have more to do with the creation of media and web browsing versus media display.

Many of us have media shared on a network drive. It is already being created. It is already being stored. We merely expect XBMC to present it. This should be the basis for comparison.

You basically described my exact usage. I have an ION box, I have network storage.

Where you are wrong is to assume that XBMC Live is fully featured as is. I do "argue" that out of the box XBMC Live provides all that can be provided out of an ION media center device.


Only with hard work and skill can XBMC Live be configured to output 7 channel PCM over HDMI correctly, which is a big feature of ION chipsets (and needed if you want the best audio). Also you need to update the Xorg.conf to take advantage of perfect frame rate matching. Oh and don't forget to upgrade the smblib for XBMC Live 9.11 or you won't be able to connect to your Windows 7 shares.

Point being- yes Linux and XBMC Live rocks but simply installing Live is not even half the battle.

And even after you install live, you still don't have access to certain things (such as HD audio bitstreaming) in Linux that you get in Windows. So I think a fleshed out comparison was a helpful idea....

[GJones]

The most important choice in getting sound output correctly seems to be utilizing the correct driver. There are a number of very detailed posts on how to accomplish this. The trouble many people encounter comes when they blindly update their systems as if they were normal desktops instead of media appliances. I myself do not send audio over HDMI, so I cannot speak to it. I do see a number of questions regarding HDMI audio for Windows users too, though.

The issue with smblib cannot be attributed to XBMC Live or even to Linux. MS changed their protocol. SMB also happens to be the least efficient method for accessing shares over a network. Since we want impeccable audio and frame rate matching, it would be best to research a NAS or server that supports the much more efficient NFS. MS made significant changes to SMB in Vista and Windows 7. I have abandoned using Windows shares for anything I expect to work reliably.

With Windows you get a number of features: the need for constant updates, a consistent drain on resources by the overhead of the OS itself, less efficient use of the video card without significant effort, higher CPU utilization, etc. Windows is not equipped to be a very efficient appliance operating system. It has too many hooks assuming it understands how users will use the system. Linux, when compared to Windows as an OS for a media appliance, is a much stronger competitor.

I suggest using an XBMC box as an appliance and never as a desktop. There are opportunities for improvement in the nvidia drivers in regards to HDMI audio, especially in the later revisions. I would contend that the resource impacts of other Windows processes would far outweigh the visible issues due to perfect frame rate matching out of the box.

As a testament to its stability, my cheap Acer Revo 3610 has been running for weeks without a reboot for any reason. It is serving just under 2 TB of media.

For the record, I initially thought that I might be more tempted to use Windows for my XBMC box in spite of my Ubuntu knowledge. Netflix and Hulu under Windows I thought would sway me. Under Windows 7 Media Center, though, Netflix is hindered by SD limitations and a horrid interface. Hulu Desktop was poorly designed--horribly designed. So the two selling points I thought would be there turned out to be no better on one platform than the other. With Ubuntu, I have an easy (to me) scheduling environment for things like disk maintenance, backup and library updates through cron.

I am glad that Windows is making strides in closing the gap performance-wise, especially in video. But Live just offers a better "media appliance" experience to me. If I had to use that machine for a desktop as well, I would have significantly different performance under both Windows and Linux.

[boombastic]

On OSX, do DTS-HD and Dolby TrueHD work with toslink cable from the Mac to a receiver capable to decode those HD streams?

Currently, my set-up is made by a middle-2009 27" iMac (i5, 4GB ram, ATI 4850) and a Kenwood receiver which cannot decode DTS-HD and Dolby TrueHD.
The Kenwood unit play them as normal AC3 and DTS tracks.
I'm wondering if with this set-up it's worth to buy a newer receiver which can decode those HD audio formats.
Wat do you think about?

[natethomas]

HD audio codecs can't be carried on an optical digital connection. The only way to get from your computer to your receiver would be if you connected the two via HDMI, and the video card supported streaming those codecs.

So, unless you are planning on also buying a new PC, probably not.

[poofyhairguy]

Thanks for the bump, I corrected the list...

[jhsrennie]

The issue with smblib cannot be attributed to XBMC Live or even to Linux.

You've rather missed the point. The aim isn't to assign blame or point fingers, it's to identify issues that users might run into. Regardless of who is to blame for the SMB problem, the problem exists.

JR

[poofyhairguy]

Regardless of who is to blame for the SMB problem, the problem exists.

JR

I don't think it is a problem anymore with Dharma. That was a Camelot issue.

[SpectreX]

Windows 7
-> Ability to playback Blu ray disks using TMT3 or 5 with HD audio bitstreaming
-> EVR renderer for pristine PQ (DS Player)
-> Ability to launch MPC-HC with the MadVR renderer from doom9 for even better PQ (and HD audio bitstreaming without DS Player.

[GJones]

You've rather missed the point. The aim isn't to assign blame or point fingers, it's to identify issues that users might run into. Regardless of who is to blame for the SMB problem, the problem exists.

JR

The problem exists for those dependent on MS software. The problem does not exist for those not dependent on MS software.

The problem also impacts almost every consumer electronics device interacting with MS desktops and laptops at a recent revision. This issue can only be considered a problem if you are dependent on files stored on hardware running MS software. For anyone utilizing directly attached storage or a non-MS implementation of NAS, this does not become a problem.