[bluenote]

Hey guys

I've been hemming and hawing about what kind of hardware platform I can use to build myself a couple of secondary tv XBMC stations, but recently I've started to seriously consider building one for my dad.

For dad, really what I want is the cheapest and most inclusive (includes wireless? includes RF keyboard mouse? include RF receiver?) small box package. He's got a harmony I got him last year so no remote needed. The box will run XBMC/sabnzbd/couch potato/sickbeard , and need to be able to support 1080 playback through HDMI. Without an OS is my preference so I can choose, but the box will need to be able to support Windows for flexibility.
I see cheaper offerings with Intel GMA 3150 graphics. Is this supported and will it work as opposed to ION?

thanks!

[poofyhairguy]

. The box will run XBMC/sabnzbd/couch potato/sickbeard , and need to be able to support 1080 playback through HDMI.

So basically you not only want a box to playback content for him, but also acquire content for him to watch?

I am been down this road myself and my first question is: Where do you plan to store the downloaded stuff? An external drive?

Once you add that question to the mix often it becomes easier just to build a box that you can get a real 3.5 inch HD in.

I see cheaper offerings with Intel GMA 3150 graphics. Is this supported and will it work as opposed to ION?

No, Intel GMA 3150 graphics are not enough for HD content. Somewhere near 1/20th the power ION has.

The only way an Intel GPU works is if you pay enough to get something like a i3, which is probably out of your budget. Stick to Nvidia.

In fact, as I said, consider building a box. It will be cheaper than anything you can buy + external HD and it will be more reliable as well (the HD can't accidentally get unplugged and screw everything up).

[bluenote]

Hey PHG, was hoping you'd jump in

You raise a good point, but Dad is only used to what the cable company gives you for storage on his existing pvr's, so I don't think I need to get multiple terabytes here for him. You're right that self contained would be good though.
I'd hope that it would be good enough with what I could squeeze in (2.5 or 3.5" HD I guess). And, in a pinch, network access to one of the other several PC's in the house).

I'm really reluctant to build one from scratch, although I have built many PC's in the past, because I feel like getting all the requirements together in one place may be problematic (eg: I haven't built a mini sized PC before, I have to worry about card size, how do I get a power brick specced to it, etcetera).
My experience is built in onboard/in package stuff generally is cheaper.


The other drawback is I feel like building from scratch will mean adding all the accessories (RF kb/mouse,IR receiver, wireless g/n and whatnot else) will raise the price enough that it wont be such a sweet spot for a gift.

I'm open to being convinced if I can do it easily in a nice form factor without making too many compromises. (and cost). What do you think?

[poofyhairguy]

You raise a good point, but Dad is only used to what the cable company gives you for storage on his existing pvr's, so I don't think I need to get multiple terabytes here for him. You're right that self contained would be good though.

Unless you tell ole sickbeard to stick to SD divx it can fill a 1TB drive in no time with HD content. I think you pretty much need at least a 2TB drive to prevent it from running aground quickly, which means needing a 3.5inch HD space.

And, in a pinch, network access to one of the other several PC's in the house).

Bad idea I think. It adds complication to the setup ("For the box I gave you to work, your desktop PC needs to always be on and not asleep. No the monitor being off doesn't mean its asleep" etc etc). I think it better to just focus on what you can fit in the box.

(eg: I haven't built a mini sized PC before, I have to worry about card size, how do I get a power brick specced to it, etcetera).

I would stick to a Micro ATX build. There are many slick (and cheap) Micro ATX HTPC cases, it can fit one (or more) real HDs, and it will cost less.

If you try to go Mini ITX for this you will be over $500 easily and it will be way less robust. If he doesn't have the space for a Micro ATX build, maybe start to consider a different gift...

My experience is built in onboard/in package stuff generally is cheaper.

Not in HTPCland. We are too small of a market to enjoy the economies of scale.

The other drawback is I feel like building from scratch will mean adding all the accessories (RF kb/mouse,IR receiver, wireless g/n and whatnot else) will raise the price enough that it wont be such a sweet spot for a gift.

If you do it right a Micro ATX build will be cheaper than any store bought Mini system.

And forget an RF kb/mouse- if you can't make it work completely with the Harmony you are just giving him a box he won't use...

[dan1son]

Poofy knows a thing or two... I'll second what he said and say just go to newegg.com, buy a Micro ATX board with AMD dual core proc, an nvidia gt210 card, put 2gigs or RAM in it, buy an HTPC case, a small wireless keyboard/mouse combo, a little MCE compatible IR USB receiver, and whatever hard disks you want (2tb isn't too expensive anymore... and we all know more is better).

For wireless, the only thing I've ever seen work well enough for HD streaming is one of the Linksys/Cisco 802.11n bridges (aka gaming adapter). They're a bit more expensive, but rock solid and fast. Wired is still better... but those do work if you have a nice N backbone (especially 5ghz).

You're talking around $50 (mb) + $50 (cpu) + $40 (gpu) + $35 (ram) + $50 (case) + $40 (kb/mouse) + $15 (ir receiver) = $280 + hard disk and wireless.

That's cheaper than a bare bones ION pre-fab box and gives you a proper desktop class machine with a real dual core processor and a real video card.

Personally I live perfectly happy with a single core Atom + ION box, but I only use the box for XBMC. I have another dual core Atom server that does the interesting stuff.

EDIT: My father bought himself a dual core Acer Revo after seeing my single core box last year. But he's tech savvy... stores everything on his FreeNAS boxes.

[bluenote]

EDIT: Ok I specced a couple setups, and even choosing the cheaper-est components I seem to be getting up a little higher than I'd like.
Can I get some suggestions on - DXVA compliant onboard video and cpu type/grade?
I haven't so far, but, how about a power brick? It seems like such a good idea for an appliance-type machine (because of heat/fan).
I can't seem to find any IR receivers that don't come with a remote, at least on newegg and my local online shop (ncix.com).

-- In particular on the cost savings front, I'm looking at HDMI motherboards and they often seem to come with Intel GMA X4500.
Will this kind of a setup work with DXVA and therefore smooth HD playback?


thanks guys


thanks

[poofyhairguy]

I'll try my hand at speccing a 'real' system, thanks guys.

I can help.

I like this case best for the job:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.as...6811163166

But here is a cheaper one that would work fine as well:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.as...6811204035

That case has space for 4 x3.5 inch drives so if you are like me you can fill it with all your old 500 GB and 1TB drives out for your server, and get a new 2TB for yourself. The main differences between the cases is the Silverstone will be quieter.

I can't recommend anything but this mobo:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.as...6813128394

My favorite brand (based on experience), a built in 1080p capable GPU (in Windows), all the features you need.

You can even get this combo to make Windows cheaper:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.as...6813128394

This CPU:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.as...6819103698

Or this CPU:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.as...6819103908

Either is enough for the job, one is just a little more future-proof.

Can this be done with a power brick? Or does that not make sense in this application?

Power bricks only make sense for Mini ITX PCs that are pure frontends. Since you are adding storage, get a real PSU (both cases above take a real PSU).

Get one with a single large fan and it will be quieter. I recommend this:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.as...6817139017

If you need more help, ask. I live for this stuff....

[bluenote]

Poof, thanks for taking the time. I like what you're doing there.
Before I plug in the rest of your options though, what do you think about this alternative for the mobo? It's a little cheaper, but still seems like it'll do onboard 1080p ?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.as...=GA-MA78LM

thanks again

[poofyhairguy]

Poof, thanks for taking the time. I like what you're doing there.

Seriously, I will help as much as I can. Looking at other parts right now for deals.

Before I plug in the rest of your options though, what do you think about this alternative for the mobo?

I don't like that mobo nearly as much, as the ATI Radeon 3000 GPU is a big step down from the ATI Radeon HD 4200.

I recommended the above mobo because that is what I use as my base to build desktop PCs for people. I kinda stake my rep on that mobo regularly with success.

But looking at the deals, here is a mobo with the same capabilities and pretty high ratings for a crazy price:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.as...-_-Product

[bluenote]

I'm ordering from http://www.ncix.com because they are close by and I can pick up rather than pay for shipping, and I could have price matched that mobo but they don't seem to carry that exact one :/ I'm adding in your original suggestion back. The case and separate PSU end up pushing the price up way too much though. Here's what I've come up with trying to cut the costs, see what you think:

This is at least somewhat HTPC looking case and comes with PSU:
http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=42116
1TB HD (I may take your advice and JBOD some together instead)
http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=48180
Sempron 145 based on cost, although going dual is definitely in the back of my mind. I like the low power footprint though.
http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=55075
2 GB kingston ram
http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=35726
Recommended mobo (I really like both AMD based GA boards actually)
http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=41233
Wireless (I know, caveats apply)
http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=53115

Plus one of those HP IR receivers from ebay , I think its the best quality for price vs. buying a crap remote and throwing it away for the IR receiver which may be crap too.

I appreciate the help. Now that I've driven the price down maybe there are some feature/performance gains to be had or even better fits.

To throw a wrench in though -- still not ION at this price point eh?

thanks

[htpc guy]

I can confirm what PHG says about that motherboard. Its the exact one that I use on my system and I love it. I'm running an AMD tripple core though that newegg no longer sells. The dual core will work just as well for simply watching movies in 1080p. (I went with more power for emulators and I can run n64 emu's). I also get full 1080p in Linux as well as sound output from the HDMI and optical out (may be important if your father has a nice receiver for surround sound). I don't think that you can get sound out of both ports in windows though (Linux will also save you $). If you go with this motherboard I can give you some pointers on how to set it up in Linux.

[htpc guy]

Newegg has that same case for 39 bucks. I have the same one. Its a touch loud but the fan can be replaced rather cheaply in the future.

[poofyhairguy]

Here's what I've come up with trying to cut the costs, see what you think

Everything looks good. Please take some pics afterwards.

To throw a wrench in though -- still not ION at this price point eh?

ION is more Mini ITX- more ready for frontends. I would prefer the AMD CPU when it comes time to unrar downloads. Single core is fine though...

[bluenote]

I'm going to chew it over a little while and make sure I'm going the right direction -- I THINK I can build this and set it up such that its not a pain in my butt and yet very useable for dad ...

thanks for thelp guys, I'll let you know how it comes out

[poofyhairguy]

One last thought:

I would really consider going the XBMC Live (or actually one of the distros that include downloading programs) route. Not only because its cheaper (FREE!) but because then you give him a basic media appliance that "just works" for him because you set it up.

XBMC Live can provide a complete remote driven interface and make the box dedicated to XBMC. Unless you dad is a pretty big nerd that means you are giving him a "TiVo from the future!" that he will appreciate more than a Windows box that announces what it is everytime it boots. XBMC Live is what I give to family.

Good luck!