[PatrickBateman]

Hi,

I have researched on line to find out if it should set my pc volume to the default of 50% or turned up to the maximum 100% ...

This seems to boiled down to 2 solutions...

100% Supposedly pure untouched sound
50% digitally compressed...

But then the argument says that 100% is to loud and causes clipping
50 is the default as it's the "line" output level...

Can anyone help me here?

I have a Asus Xonar u1 48khz 5.1 dts connect, doody digital live etc sound card hooked up to my external amp ..

Can anyone give a clear explanation of where the best volume setting is for the pc'/s volume.

Let's state that the media player is not on spdif pass through and that the media player is on 100% volume ..what Should my optimum master pc volume be set to for optimal range, quality and clarity and avoide clipping and compression?

Any advice?

[adytum]

I'm not sure I fully understand (or that you do) what you mean by this.

You should always output at 100%, if you experience any clipping, then, depending on the media player, it might be because it's trying to amplify the signal above a 100%, in which case digital clipping can be nasty (I know KMplayer does this). If a signal sounds better at 50% than a 100, then it's something seriously wrong with the DA converter on the soundcard.

Please elaborate on your question if this answer doesn't suffice.

[PatrickBateman]

I'm not sure I fully understand (or that you do) what you mean by this.

You should always output at 100%, if you experience any clipping, then, depending on the media player, it might be because it's trying to amplify the signal above a 100%, in which case digital clipping can be nasty (I know KMplayer does this). If a signal sounds better at 50% than a 100, then it's something seriously wrong with the DA converter on the soundcard.

Please elaborate on your question if this answer doesn't suffice.

Hey,

Thanks for tht,
Yea thats exactly what I ment... My explanation was a bit rough lol

I totally agree with wht your saying and the reason i asked this question was, over avsforum they seem to say that the pc volume should actually only be (for the cleanest audio) between 60 and 80% ...

There is all sorts of graphs and signal to noise stuff on there and they state that the perfect output for the sound card is the exact same level as that sound cards "line out" level... which (according to them) is usually somewhere between 60 and 80% of the sound cards max volume... I just wondered what you guys ran your rigs volume at to appease my decision of running at 100.

I agree with you and was under the Impression that the chain should look like this...

Source -
media player - 100%
pc volume - 100%
amp - used to control the overall volume..

I'll stick to 100 seems as you and others are doing the same just didn't want to be the only one running at 100 and clipping my audio and losing dynamic range etc. (if that was the case)

Cheers for the heads up

[adytum]

Well, I don't know about that discussion, but I don't understand how one can compare the volume output of a converted digital signal (line out) to a spdif signal with the same terms, since the respective signal types handle volume in two different ways.
Anyway, always stick to maximum output from the source unless you have a concrete reason to do otherwise.

[topfs2]

If your using xbmc to control volume (i.e. if you decode and output PCM instead of passthrough) setting it to "100%" will mean not altering the decoded data. This is why its refered to as 0dB in the GUI, as we do not alter the level.

As should be known though is that our current audio player does in fact change from 24bit -> 16bit sadly and this will be changed in eden (as the entire audio layer is redesigned).

Setting your soundcard, i.e. windows volume to 100% isn't necessarily good, depend on your soundcard. Your supposed to use a proper line out level as thats what your amp wants (you should keep amplification to 0dB until it reaches the real amp). If your using passthrough the windows volume should not matter and your amp will receive the non-altered data.

[PatrickBateman]

If your using xbmc to control volume (i.e. if you decode and output PCM instead of passthrough) setting it to "100%" will mean not altering the decoded data. This is why its refered to as 0dB in the GUI, as we do not alter the level.

As should be known though is that our current audio player does in fact change from 24bit -> 16bit sadly and this will be changed in eden (as the entire audio layer is redesigned).

Setting your soundcard, i.e. windows volume to 100% isn't necessarily good, depend on your soundcard. Your supposed to use a proper line out level as thats what your amp wants (you should keep amplification to 0dB until it reaches the real amp). If your using passthrough the windows volume should not matter and your amp will receive the non-altered data.

Hi,

Thanks for that explanation... That makes a lot of sense... Basically then (if i have this right) depending on the sound card you use 100% may In fact be sending out a "over amplified" output than your external amplifier expects to be receiving...

A line level amplification (according to avs) is generally about 0.5v but instead (in some cases) some sound cards (x-fi being one named on the forum) send out a 2v over amplified level from the sound cards dacs at 100% and are therefore required to be lowered to the expected 0.5 volt level... (is that right)

Using line out or spdif pass though negates these issues as it's a direct pass through with no amplification, however, in my case (converting to Dolby digital live 5.1) can/could over amplify the sound if set at 100% volume on the pc, as the signal sent may be louder than the expected line level my amp Is expecting to receive.. That right?

If so, That pretty much agrees with what is said on avs... So inthat case, would you say its safer (or better) to set my card onto 80% (in your opinion) rather Than 100? Or how can I find out what my line level is and what my dacs output?

Do you set your pc volume to 100% or do you have yours set lower... Or do you pass through everything to the amp with no amplification at all times?

Thanks again for the explanation, that does make sense and is clearer than the hardcore graphs and signal waves all over avs lol if I've mis understood you though you have permission to embarrass me for being a douche

[topfs2]

Hi,

Thanks for that explanation... That makes a lot of sense... Basically then (if i have this right) depending on the sound card you use 100% may In fact be sending out a "over amplified" output than your external amplifier expects to be receiving...

A line level amplification (according to avs) is generally about 0.5v but instead (in some cases) some sound cards (x-fi being one named on the forum) send out a 2v over amplified level from the sound cards dacs at 100% and are therefore required to be lowered to the expected 0.5 volt level... (is that right)

Correct, 0.5v is usually line level and 0dB in most setups.

Using line out or spdif pass though negates these issues as it's a direct pass through with no amplification, however, in my case (converting to Dolby digital live 5.1) can/could over amplify the sound if set at 100% volume on the pc, as the signal sent may be louder than the expected line level my amp Is expecting to receive.. That right?

Well if you use spdif you can often use passthrough (given that your receiver understands dolby digital etc). If you choose that route it will be passed untouched all the way and your receiver does the conversion into analog.

If so, That pretty much agrees with what is said on avs... So inthat case, would you say its safer (or better) to set my card onto 80% (in your opinion) rather Than 100? Or how can I find out what my line level is and what my dacs output?

Depends on your card, xonar might output line level or have a way of doing that so hard to say.

Do you set your pc volume to 100% or do you have yours set lower... Or do you pass through everything to the amp with no amplification at all times?

Thanks again for the explanation, that does make sense and is clearer than the hardcore graphs and signal waves all over avs lol if I've mis understood you though you have permission to embarrass me for being a douche

Well I use HDMI to my TV and as such its unamplified. However I don't use that setup in an audiofil way. Normally when I listen to music I do so via headphones and (recently headphone amp) and from my soundcard. Which produces very very good audio also, but I obviously need to set the output of my soundcard to something which I think is linelevel.

iPod for example output linelevel via the dock so you can use that to figure out what the line level is supposed to be (given you have an iPod and dock ).

Cheers,
Tobias

[adytum]

I apologize, I really thought that was a case of "emperor's new clothes", I realize now that I misunderstood and that it can be a real issue with some soundcards.

[dan1son]

I'd say if you have a device that doesn't output line-level at it's definitely not an audiophile type product. I'd imagine in the OPs case that this device will do line level at full volume since it's a 5.1 device made to hook up to amplifiers or amplified speakers.

Usually sound cards that output beyond line-level actually have headphone or speaker outputs which are already amplified and expecting a fairly low impedance device hooked up to them. I've seen sound cards with BOTH headphone outs and line-outs depending on your need.

Your best bet for optimal sound is to get the sound out of the computer digitally. That can be toslink, usb, digital coax, hdmi, whatever and into a high quality DAC -> Pre-amp -> Amp -> drivers or any combination there of. Surround Sound receivers are DAC/Pre-Amp/Amp in one. Most commercial DACs (probably all) are also pre-amps, some have headphone amps and/or speaker amps as well.

A lot of digital outputs don't even let you adjust the volume (which is a good thing, since it lowers the chance of the signal getting messed with). You want the signal at full line-level volume until the pre-amp or amp (depending where you want the volume control).

If you're not hearing the clipping you're probably fine. It's normally quite obvious from my experience. If the amp is expecting .5volts and is getting 2, you'll hear it. Check the amps specs too for line-level voltage. Some higher end amplifiers will gladly accept higher input voltages (like those coming from a pre-amp or pro gear).

[PatrickBateman]

Fantastic...

Thank you so much for clearing that up Tobias, i do indeed have an ipod dock and that is a very good idea for me to find my line out level (or at least be close) as i can play the same identicle file on the ipod and on the pc simultaneously until the audio levels are as near as dammit. Very good idea. Thanks. Youve helped explain that in a manner in which is very digestible and i really appreciate that.

Yeah, I dont usually "pass through" my audio (which i know i should) i usually leave the xonar set to "dolby digital live" which upmixes everything it receives to 5.1 on the fly in the xonar hardware (even 5.1 sources)...

i know your probably feeling sick at the thought of that, but i do it for convinience more than anything...

However with my HTPC first build coming along nicely and xbmc being a big part of that, i want to ensure that i take the time to get the best from equiptment that i have, its a 24bit sound card with the same dacs that are in the d2x series (supposedly some of the best for the pc sound card market) and my tv is a 47" LED LCD which i am configuring at the moment as well.

Its not cinema level equiptment like some of the ones on here, however i feel that given the right tweaks it can produce an altogether welcoming home cinema experience, if i give it the right attention and try to under stand it as much as possible... And you guys have helped me understand a lot of stuff in a very short period of time. So thanks again.

Just a quick thought...
If i launch a 5.1 movie and play the sound via ffdshow and switch on "passthrough" and then disable "pass through" so the sound card volume kicks back in, can i use that to determine the line level... by adjusting the pc audio output level "on the fly" to be exactly that of the "passthough" when played thrugh the amp ..

That should work shouldn't it? .. to allow me to determine the correct level? Or am i on glue? lol

[PatrickBateman]

Quick update on this (now the DJASH resolved my filenaming and tagging issue and that is now being down automagically as we speak)

I can confirm that the line out volume of my particular card is in fact 100% and the xonar d2x dacs are of a resonably high quality, in comparison to some other sound cards, so its not gonna be amazing but i should be ok for home use.

Tthanks to Tobias for helping me out with that.

I have one other question though,

As my card is 24bit and i currently use FFDShow for decoding and passthrough etc, should i set FFDShow to 24bit only and uncheck 16bit in the out put settings to ensure my card outputs on 24bit or is this not really required?

Thanks again, and id be lost without you lot

[topfs2]

Well XBMC doesn't use ffdshow by default and by doing 16->24bit you gain nothing unless you do some fancy expanding (which alters the sound and is subjective if it helps).

[PatrickBateman]

Well XBMC doesn't use ffdshow by default and by doing 16->24bit you gain nothing unless you do some fancy expanding (which alters the sound and is subjective if it helps).

Yea,
I'm currently using MPC-HC as im an xp user and xbmc wont use CUDA or DXVA in xp so i use FFDShow and CoreAVC for my movies (which is smooth as slik.. It would be amazing to have seen something like MPC-HC added as a player option or for XBMC to support direct show filters etc.

I could move to win7 however that in its self currently brings a host of new problems, in particular (for me) with sound and other general options...

So im not gaining anything by selecting the 24bit output option in FFDShow, i didnt think so, but just want to make sure i lose as little sound, picture quality as i possibly can for when i watch my movies..

Thanks again for the info, really appreciated