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Full Version: 10-bit h264 (Hi10) Support?
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Current CUDA decoders (CoreAVC and LAV are the commonly used) still use the video decoder built in to the graphics cards (CUVID) so they are still bound by their limitations. CoreAVC will probably be the only solution for slow CPU's until hi10p is mainstream enough for it to be hardware accelerated.
TREX6662k5 Wrote:Current CUDA decoders (CoreAVC and LAV) still use the video decoder built in to the graphics cards (CUVID) so they are still bound by their limitations.

In theory though... it would be possible to move software decoding routines to the GPU with CUDA (nvidia) and OpenCL (AMD / Intel)?

Granted one can't take advantage of the video decoding profiles that are currently baked into the hardware since they're limited to 8-bit... but that doesn't prevent someone from offloading even video decoding work to the GPU, if they were so inclined to write such a program with CUDA / OpenCL?
jwcalla Wrote:In theory though... it would be possible to move software decoding routines to the GPU with CUDA (nvidia) and OpenCL (AMD / Intel)?

Yep, I don't see problem with that.
Although it means much more work has to be done.
Well, the first fansubs for the new season are out, and the majority of 720p are 10-bit. Guess I'm going to be doing a lot of transcoding until XBMC supports them.

As to the comment about enough choice ... I like to make my choices based on readability and quality of subtitles (grammar, spelling, etc).

I don't blame the XBMC developers in any way for the current mess, but given that this is a problem affecting users now and there is an upstream implementation in ffmpeg I think it would be a good idea to integrate it as soon as possible. If nothing else, it would allow shaking out of bugs early.
When I read your post, I thought that you might be exaggerating since I thought that was only BD rip only for now and then I took a look at the UTW site and their fall plans. Sad Really didn't expect the groups move so fast. Yeah, difficult times for anime watchers.
Bugger! At the time I posted UTW hadn't announced their plans. Now all we need is Mazui to announce that they're 10-bit only and that would mean pretty much everyone I would even consider using has gone 10-bit ...

I'm going to have to upgrade my anime-watching HTPC to handle 10-bit (it doesn't handle 8-bit 1080p without VDPAU, so I doubt it would do 10-bit 720p) but fortunately I can swap the CPUs in my two HTPCs (E7300 in main, E2140 in secondary ATM) since the main isn't used for anime.
Does XBMC play those releases correctly when hardware acceleration is disabled?
From what I've tested, no; even with DXVA/VDPAU disabled, you get strange artifacts across the screen.

I like this quote from UTW:

Quote:we’ll be switching to 10-bit x264 encodes for the Fall 2011 season (put simply, you’ll be getting better video for smaller filesizes at a small compatibility sacrifice).

'Small compatibility sacrifice' is the understatement of the year, considering it completely breaks hardware acceleration and even software decoding in most cases. We have faster connections and more storage than we've ever had at any point and they're whinging about filesize.
CrystalP Wrote:Does XBMC play those releases correctly when hardware acceleration is disabled?

No. Currently the only solution to watch 10-bit video with XBMC is to transcode it to 8-bit.

Handbrake has a new-enough version of ffmpeg that it can transcode from 10-bit. It can't yet produce 10-bit, and the author isn't particularly interested in getting it to do so.

I have to say that I don't mind the concept of 10-bit - better quality with smaller filesize (and reduced banding) is definitely a good achievement. However, forcing it on people when there is still so little support is aggravating.
OK thanks, we'll take it into consideration.
magao Wrote:No. Currently the only solution to watch 10-bit video with XBMC is to transcode it to 8-bit.

Or to use DSPlayer with LAV Video Decoder/External player Smile

DVDPlayer doesn't play them properly even in CPU though, it kinda looks like its still trying to treat them as 8bit video, so the colour depth is all messed up, and scenes with more colour gradients going on suffer.
It would be good if it could be implemented sooner rather than later though, out of my family members several of us watch anime, so 10bit is relevant enough for me I'd like it to be in DVDPlayer as a fallback.

Tbh, much as the move seems a little premature, I can understand it, sometimes it makes staggering space efficiency improvements (series in 1080p 8bit, 21GB, series in 1080p 10bit, 11GB!!), with no loss or sometimes even picture quality gain; and in a lot of ways its like when H264 started to supersede Xvid/Divx; there was no GPU/Hardware accelleration for H264 back then either and it used more CPU time than both, but the efficiency improvements made people opt for it and nowadays it is seen a normal.

From the files I've seen, the picture quality is no worse, sometimes better (especially with gradiants, colour smoothness if you will) whereas filesize is typically reduced by 10-40%.

Last I checked, small filesize better picture was the main objective of video compression formats, rather than the CPU runtime required to decode them; which is a shame; but it's a necessary step in progress and the complaints seem to me to feel very similar to those used back in 2005. I do use some machines that utilise DXVA/similar, but sometimes you have to upgrade hardware as part of progress.
If your hobby is to get top of the line high power stuff for your pc, this is cool. But this concept is hitting a small percentage of the market.
Think of devices not capable of playing this format:
iPad, iPhone, Android phone, Android Tablets, Google TV, Roku, Squeezebox, Apple TV, Netbooks, Lower end laptops, etc...

I dont see it breaking out of hobby status until "typical hardware" can deal with it

Dont get me wrong - I like the whole concept it is based on
CrystalP Wrote:OK thanks, we'll take it into consideration.

Thanks. That's one of the two good things that's come out of the move to 10-bit ... it's created urgency to upgrade players (the other being the whole reason for 10-bit - smaller filesize for same quality).

As a bonus, this should pick up the ffmpeg multi-threaded decoding as well, which might mitigate the increased CPU usage somewhat.

alexrose1uk Wrote:Or to use DSPlayer with LAV Video Decoder/External player Smile

Did I see you post in UTW's comments? This is fine if you're on Windows, not so good if you're using XBMC-Live as an appliance.
No, true, which is why it'll be good if the devs can get this implemented sooner rather than later.
I have to admit based around the title of this thread I was responding more with a focus on windows based application rather than Linux/alternative branches.

I've never really got on as well with the non-windows variants, as I've come across more than a few files that just didn't play as nicely with the Linux variants, although I like the idea of running a light application install, as there's only so light you can get a windows install.

As to whether I've been on UTWs site Wink
My last post wasn't really fully aimed at you, and no argument or offence intended, only my own thoughts on the transition, and the comment which mentioned you could only reencode to retain the usual GUI whixh isn't 100% true on windows as you can use a Dsplayer build which'll give you the flexibility and at least is an option for windows users until the devs update dvdplayer to utilise a new version of mplayer with Hi10 support. Even though I'm not using it as the primary player I'd still like it incorporated for redundancy.

It'd be a shame if people resorted to other less complete solutions to allow playback when there might be other decent ways to do it without losing functionality or form as XBMC is nice to use overall Smile
Let's see;

1) only sw decoder can handle it
2) you need a more powerful box to do that sw decode.

Do these guys work for intel/amd or something ?

In case you don't follow hw decoders, if the silicon can't do it, then look for a two, three year cycle before they can.