Hello Administrators!
I am XBMC user since about 3 years. At first It was shocked by the software capabilities and graphical interface...
Now I would be greatfull for more stability...
Things which in my opinion should be changed:
1. Skins which are in a gallery. How many of them actually work? Why "aeon" is shown on the very top if it is not on plug in list? Are they up-to-date?
2. What about grooveshark plug in? It has not been fixed for months. I like using it since I can clearly specify what I want to llisten.
3. Weather finally to be "cleaned" on the main screan? I think the appearance of the "clock and weather" bar on the top is shifted to the left on confluence.
I think that lots of typical useres are struggling like me with those little bugs here and there. I don't need 1000 functions. I need maybe 20 but super stable.
Is this possible?
Bold
(2012-03-12, 23:01)bold Wrote: [ -> ]Hello Administrators!
I am XBMC user since about 3 years. At first It was shocked by the software capabilities and graphical interface...
Now I would be greatfull for more stability...
Things which in my opinion should be changed:
1. Skins which are in a gallery. How many of them actually work? Why "aeon" is shown on the very top if it is not on plug in list? Are they up-to-date?
2. What about grooveshark plug in? It has not been fixed for months. I like using it since I can clearly specify what I want to llisten.
3. Weather finally to be "cleaned" on the main screan? I think the appearance of the "clock and weather" bar on the top is shifted to the left on confluence.
I think that lots of typical useres are struggling like me with those little bugs here and there. I don't need 1000 functions. I need maybe 20 but super stable.
Is this possible?
Bold
1. Gallery need updating (yes we are aware of this but there are priorities). Compatible skins are listed in the XBMC add-on repo. There are also some skins that aren't listed there because of some kind of reason. Check the forum for those.
2. Grooveshark isn't maintained by XBMC team but a developer who made it on his own. So if he doesn't continue his work it will be broken (that goes for all script/plugins).
3 You can turn off weather.
Bugs fixes are constantly being worked on on. So is improving stability.
1. For Dharma there are a bunch of Aeon that work pretty well and also more than two dozen of skins...For Eden we also have lots of skins...best way is to check skin specific forums...
2. Grooveshark is afaik a third party Addon...tbh I'm not sure why development stopped, maybe due to technical reasons (API problems e.g.)...
Or the dev has other things (real life) to handle and nobody stepped up the plate to work on it again...might be your chance to learn python ;-)
3. This is personal taste and can be achieved with a little help in less than an hour...
If you ask the right way, many people will offer help...
EDIT: Martijn was faster...
mad-max
Hello again,
I can see I could use some better words. I could be more positive. Sorry for that! This doesn't change the fact I am not a software guy able to generate some code. That's the fact and I really wish I could do it. Not to be so negatvie - I really love the way movie section works. It is simply great. Especially subtitles! I think this changed between 9 and 10 version. This was clearly milestone for me - at leat for a relativelly new user lke myself. There is plenty of other features which are simply great. For sure there is much more good than bad. Don't get me wrong, please. I really do think that!
On the other hand I still think that website requires some more maintancance. I don't think that main window look is only the matter of my taste. I can remember older versions where this bar would look different. Now weather works but it is not the same. Sorry for being "picky". Estethics are very important here and without any doubt XBMC has best skins I saw in any other media center. With main window everything starts...Xtreamer is getting close to XBMC and this could be the closest competition. TV market is getting strong, too.
Grooveshark is on the list of plug-ins and for simple user like me is official. I am assuming that plug-ins are official but I could be worng. Can you clarify this? Xtreamer has it on the list.... I don't want Xtreamer I want XBMC...
Best regards,
Bold
We'll never be able to cater to all tastes. It's very skinable and if you don't find one you like then really there's not much you can do but write one.
Addons are almost always written and maintained by users as they've found a need and had the means to create one.
Quote:There are also some skins that aren't listed there because of some kind of reason.
That really sums up my feelings about XBMC's public image right there. Rather than the developers publicly discussing how the situation could be made better, we're just told to "check the forum".
If the developers are trying to make this program as user-friendly and as popular as possible, suggesting that people either "check the forum" or "write their own" isn't going to get you very far. The developers constantly tout that skins are one of the greatest parts of XBMC, but the average user is probably going to be turned off by having to download "[MOD]w2w's Alaska Revisited v2.71" from a forum and not having it work perfectly without diving into advancedsettings.xml.
All compatible skins should be made available from the main repository. Full stop.
Downloading random add-on repos, piecing things together from random thread posts, and generally hacking the thing into a functioning appliance might work well for you and I, but you're really selling yourselves short if you think that this is a viable long-term solution.
[edit] - another thought:
I should add this: I completely understand that the code contained within add-ons is not the responsibility of the main developers to maintain and support. What I would like to see though, is a better environment for getting that code onto someone's system. Because of comments like the ones in this thread the developers are creating an environment that encourages half-baked, abandoned, hacked-together, and generally non-user-friendly additions to the core program. Right now people are being actively encouraged to have their wonderful add-on buried in a 300-page thread in a forum. That's the part that needs to change.
pFranzen,
I will only agree that the forums can be difficult to search, and the process can be a trial of one's patience.
However, add-ons or skins are "enhancements" and are not required for this excellent software to perform it's core function as a media center. I think we can agree that the developers responsibility has to end at some point. If we bear in mind that this is essentially free software, the argument can be made that the devs have gone beyond "the call of duty" for a group of volunteers.
Sure, comments like "check the forum" or "write it yourself" don't give us the quick answer that we would like, but if someone didn't take "write it yourself" seriously, there would be no XBMC.
tobor
(2012-03-14, 16:20)pFranzen Wrote: [ -> ]All compatible skins should be made available from the main repository. Full stop.
Downloading random add-on repos, piecing things together from random thread posts, and generally hacking the thing into a functioning appliance might work well for you and I, but you're really selling yourselves short if you think that this is a viable long-term solution.
The reason is that ONLY copyright free skins may be added to the main repo. Some skins use non license free fonts or images so they can't be added to repo.
Also there are several mods of main skins and they also aren't made available in main for some reason (don't know exactly why)
Others are still being worked on before releasing them.
Quote:[edit] - another thought:
I should add this: I completely understand that the code contained within add-ons is not the responsibility of the main developers to maintain and support. What I would like to see though, is a better environment for getting that code onto someone's system. Because of comments like the ones in this thread the developers are creating an environment that encourages half-baked, abandoned, hacked-together, and generally non-user-friendly additions to the core program. Right now people are being actively encouraged to have their wonderful add-on buried in a 300-page thread in a forum. That's the part that needs to change.
About this is already being thought off in the background but there need to be a good way to do this and XBMC programs needs to support this.
Probably after Eden has been release this will be made possible for it's successor.
pFranzen:
The comment that you are replying to is not talking about the official repo, but the skin gallery on xbmc.org. That gallery is an "old relic" from before we had an add-on repo.
I don't think you understand the process of how a skin or add-on gets listed in the
official repo (wiki).
Skinners had to submit skins for them to be included. Full Stop. If they don't want their skin listed in the main repo then we can't do anything about it. The fact that we require this among other things is to
discourage half-baked and abandoned add-ons. We also do this because most of those skins not in our official repo are not ready for mass consumption, and have bugs and are not for your every day user. It would be fair to say that we are doing what you ask, and are listing all compatible skins in the repo.
If you understand that it's not our job to go out and find skins to tell people about, then why blame us for telling people "you can find some additional great skins on the forums, but that's about all I know"?
Recently I've started to formally encourage all skin developers to at least make a page on our wiki for their skin, even if it is not in the official repo. Again, this requires that either skin devs or people in the community help out, as there is no way I have time to make all those pages myself. I would much rather focus my time on improving the Wiki's core pages on how to actually use XBMC (we have so many outdated pages that need attention as it is).
There's also the add-on repo installer mentioned at
3rd party add-on repos (wiki) that will let people install any add-on, skin, repo, whatever, that is listed on that page, including most, if not all, in-development skins. They can do all of this from within the XBMC interface by using that one add-on. That's taking a something that normally requires more experience and making it very easy.
What else can we do?
(2012-03-14, 16:47)Martijn Wrote: [ -> ]The reason is that ONLY copyright free skins may be added to the main repo. Some skins use non license free fonts or images so they can't be added to repo.
Also there are several mods of main skins and they also aren't made available in main for some reason (don't know exactly why)
Others are still being worked on before releasing them.
[...]
Copyright free as in public domain? I sincerely doubt that. You probably mean skins that are not compatible with open source licensing and distribution are not included in the main repository.
(2012-03-14, 16:59)Ned Scott Wrote: [ -> ]What else can we do?
Don't get me wrong here. I appreciate the improvements you do for each version of XBMC. But I was thinking it might be good not to make changes to the skinning engine for every release. Making a skin is a huge task and one year or so compatibility seams like to short period time for that amount of work. I don't know the best way to handle this. Maybe rely try to make XBMC backwards compatible for skins. I'm no developer so this might not be feasible for what I know.
(2012-03-14, 17:28)Jaken Wrote: [ -> ]But I was thinking it might be good not to make changes to the skinning engine for every release. Making a skin is a huge task and one year or so compatibility seams like to short period time for that amount of work.
Changes to the skin come from different aspects...
From 9 to 10 there were incompatible skins not because of the skinning engine but furthermore because of "addon-ifying" all skin, scripts, programs etc...
Creating a addon.xml that was nearly all...
From 10 to 11 we have a change in the database,that caused some skin issues...
All in all most depraceted stuff is still working...only a few tweaks have to be done to keep it up to date...
mad-max
(2012-03-14, 17:28)Jaken Wrote: [ -> ] (2012-03-14, 16:59)Ned Scott Wrote: [ -> ]What else can we do?
Don't get me wrong here. I appreciate the improvements you do for each version of XBMC. But I was thinking it might be good not to make changes to the skinning engine for every release. Making a skin is a huge task and one year or so compatibility seams like to short period time for that amount of work. I don't know the best way to handle this. Maybe rely try to make XBMC backwards compatible for skins. I'm no developer so this might not be feasible for what I know.
Skinners encourage making changes/improvement. Most of them are their suggestions.
I just think it is sad to see fantastic skins go to waste every year or so when the original developer has lost interest. Maybe there could be some kind of organised effort for bringing skins to the latest version if they are abandoned by the developer. Given the skins are open sourced ofc.
(2012-03-14, 18:23)Jaken Wrote: [ -> ]I just think it is sad to see fantastic skins go to waste every year or so when the original developer has lost interest. Maybe there could be some kind of organised effort for bringing skins to the latest version if they are abandoned by the developer. Given the skins are open sourced ofc.
Feel free to jump in. If the skin is opensource everyone is free to do what they want and try to take over.
The nicest thing to do of course is ask the original creator if he's ok with that
Because of the open source character i don't think there will be an organized effort to do this.