I think it is a major problem when threads get too long since it takes at least a day to read 50 pages, and some threads are even longer than that. Actually, just due to the length of the threads, some questions get posted several times, since new users don't read all of the old posts (or read it too quickly) - in a thread I'm reading right now (75 pages long) the patient thread hosts have answered one particular question 5 times. And people who quote 50 lines of text and add one line of their own should be keelhauled..
A suggestion to improve this:
Let the thread starter mark posts and parts of posts as "less interesting to the main target group". And then let the users be able to select "show" or "don't show" these parts.
The parts I'm thinking should be possible to hide this way are:
* Repeated questions
* To replace all quotes by "@" followed by the name of the prevoius poster
* Things that are very personal for a single user (e g for an unusual setup) and not likely to interest many
* Posts that don't fit the intentions of the host (off topic or something like that)
* Obsolete stuff (e g many times most of the posts in the beginning of the thread do no longer apply or later posts replace them)
This all depened on the forum software. It's not something they may just be able to change.
You can use the search button to search threads and topics.
You can also use google. "site:forum.xbmc.org searchforthis"
While I agree with some of the points the OP makes, these are problems that just come with most active Forums. Forums behave differently than strings of comments following a blog post. All the forums i visit regularly have mega-long threads. You just have to roll with it and adapt your usage. At least on this forum people don't (mostly) rudely reply with "search for it yourself" or don't answer and just leave a link.
That being said, Irusak's tip of using google to search the site is a good one. Most forums have terrible search engines.
Using Google to search within a specific thread does not work. Not that I think that it would be an answer to the problem if it was.
Forum software can be modified, e g phpbb has lots of additions and you can create your own too.
For some reason XBMC's forum and Linux forums often have extreme thread lengths. Most Windows threads are one tenth or so in length. My suggestions would cut a 75 page thread down to maybe 20 pages. But the goal should be less than 10 pages to keep it manageable.
All sane persons confronted with a 75 page thread say "I will NOT read that, I'll just post my question, I don't care if it was answered before". And then you might as well give up on the threaded forum and just answer all questions individually.
While building an extension to the forum software may be possible, I don't even think that is ideal. I think we would all rather the devs working on XBMC instead of the forum software. With that said the problems you describe are essentially a problem with forum software. Forums are designed for discussion and not for creating an index of answers. As such it generally takes a good bit of time to find the answer buried in posts somewhere.
Don't get me wrong, I think this forum is a valuable resource, and the community is great. I just think it could be easier in a different format. I am not sure how many people are familiar with any of the Stack Exchange sites (stackoverflow.com, superuser.com, askubuntu,com, photography.stackexchange.com, etc), but I find the Question and Answer format much easier to use as a resource. Questions are tagged, everything gets voted based on based on the quality of the answers/questions, the best answers float to the top, and then the person asking the question can mark a particular answer as the best. Making it easy to find the solution to already posted questions.
It is unfortunately not opensource, but there are
several clones that are opensource that may be worth checking out. The other option we could do is create a site proposal for Stack Exchange on their
Area51 site. If it gets enough traction there they launch the site.
I am not suggesting abandoning the forums, more use the forum for discussions, and use Stackexchange type site for actual questions and basic troubleshooting.
Here's an idea guys...
How about just simply closing "finished", "answered" or "solved" threads? Simple, easy solution. Doesn't require new software or a complex set of rules. Crazy, I know. That's how the rest of the world does it.
There really shouldn't be a reason to keep years old threads still open. For crying out loud. There's some threads still open here from two or three years ago. It's borderline ridiculous when threads are open for years on end and people have to read through umpteenmillion posts to find out that such and such doesn't work anymore or that they're reading through old versions of things, or whatever. Don't we have forum moderators?
There is something called necromancing and is usually not very pleasant or much liked. ;-)
Posts should be closed as soon as an answer is sufficiently reached or determined inconclusive at the time. And irrelevant topics should be pushed off to other "new" threads. That way, the content is always fresh and the most up to date possible. And BTW, as soon as the answer is reached, effort should be placed to push people to update the wiki. Moderators? What say you?
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(2012-07-03, 21:09)Ray_N Wrote: [ -> ]Here's an idea guys...
How about just simply closing "finished", "answered" or "solved" threads? Simple, easy solution.
That's not a bad idea. I usually add [solved] to the topic of threads in which I asked a question, so that:
- People who might have jumped in on the conversation are aware they don't need to waste their time with it
- Others experiencing similar problems will know the thread may contain a solution that might help them
The problem with trying to close all topics as questions are answered is that some topics require on-going discussion as an XBMC feature, skin or addon is developed. A question may be answered, but new ones may arise, ad they really are related to the same thing and don't necessarily require new threads.
In my mind, if you see something here that should be taken as a reference and not an open discussion, you could add it to the wiki. The wiki is supposed to be a knowledge base to aid in the use of XBMC. The forums are more of an open discussion. While I agree, a lot of threads are long, that's kind of a byproduct of open discussion forums.
There are tools for doing things like searching within threads for key words, and rating threads higher if you find them more useful, so others can see which threads have been most useful to forum users. Then when someone writes a particularly good guide about a certain setup or or solution to a common problem, it can be added to the wiki. I'm not sure I think anything is broken the way things are.
I agree... "some topics require on-going discussion as an XBMC feature, skin or addon is developed".
So, could we maybe just be having an issue of correctly posting in the right place? For on-going discussions as you mention as things are developed, Absolutely! and postings should be under the "Developers Forum". Whereas for other things for the general population, for example, under the "Help and Support Forum", there probably shouldn't be a need for necromancing or "raising the dead". ;-)
I bring as example the Multiroom Audio thread (
http://forum.xbmc.org/showthread.php?tid=78431). This add-on has been broken for more than a year and people keep posting on the thread and asking "I can't get this to work, please help" Come on!!!! This thread is under the Help and Support Forum, like I mention and there really shouldn't be a reason to keep it open. Just like this, there are many others out there that just become stumbling blocks for new people and annoyances for the seniors.
So then I re-post the question this way: How about some greater locking of threads under the "Help and Support Forum"?
Yes, I think it makes sense to close a thread if the addon is completely broken and no longer receiving updates. Even that's a slippery slope though. The Pandora script was been broken for a while, but the thread served as a place for people to discuss minor tweaks that eventually fix it, and post links to replacement files that make the addon work again. Eventually the OP came back, explained that his repo is no longer updated and removed links to it, and thanked a member who agreed to pick up where he left off. In that case, the only place that made sense to me to watch for updates and fixes was that thread, even while the OP wasn't around. It may make sense to close it soon, but if it had been closed due to forum policy before the replacement repo was announced, there'd be a bunch of new threads about it, which would have been even more annoying for everyone, whether they were looking for Pandora answers or not.
If there are moderators and hours to be spent making an educated decision on closing some of those threads, that's great. Maybe the mod team could even be expanded a little to include more senior members that aren't devs but still want to contribute to the community. But like was mentioned above, I'd much rather see the XBMC team able to focus their precious time and resources writing code rather than tweaking forum software or having to moderate more heavily.
I get you...the eternal problem of Limited Resources, especially when we're all volunteers here.
And you do raise a good possible middle-ground solution. Expanding the mod team a little to non-devs who still want to contribute (and obviously have proven themselves, etc. etc.). Makes me curious to know who many moderators we have right now, and think, Yes, if they are all devs, they have better things to do than moderating threads. How can we know how many we have right now? And how do we go about proposing this to the team?
Hey! Here's another idea.
Is there a way to automate giving the OP permission to lock their own started threads?
Now THAT I think is a good idea.
Ok...so how do we go about proposing this to the team?
hey - problem is that this feature must be implemented in a way to not alter any core files for the forum (to be able to easily update). Not sure if this would be possible in this case.
Why not just delete all prior messages after each solid iteration of XBMC in the support forums, and mark all add-on that are not longer supported as archived and closed, at least it would cut the forum swamp to manageable. Moderate the rest.