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Full Version: TIME SENSITIVE: We need your help to fill out the XBMC PVR wiki page
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Hi, various PVR users and devs. As most of you likely know by now, PVR support has been added to mainline XBMC with PR:1357. This is very exciting news, but now we're running into a small problem.

I'm going to need to write about it for the general public in about 7 days, and the wiki page on PVR is missing a fair amount of info or includes info that is old. So I need the help of a few of you experts and experienced users to make as many of the sections as possible up to date.

The wiki page is here:


If you guys want to coordinate how to make the page better and more up to date, feel free to discuss it here in this thread.
I think that openelec should be mentioned in the pvr wiki page,
pvr backend servers (tvheadend and vdr) included as services in openelec,
real easy to enable these servers from xbmc interface, this gives a user a full pvr solution with minimum configs.
(although my belief is that the best approach would include a dedicated backend server, separated from the client)

To instal vdr on ubuntu the easiest way would be using yavdr repository at https://launchpad.net/~yavdr, preferable the more updated testing-vdr ppa.

Compiling & installing vdr on arch linux with ArchVDR team packages is real easy https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/VDR, I would definitely recommend taking this path if you're willing to install arch linux.

While Openelec should be mentioned, the xbmc wiki is not the openelec wiki; as such detailed install instructions on that platform should be referred to the openelec site. I think the wiki should educate the user while providing xbmc specific instructions with links to other info.

What i see on the existing page is a good start. I would recommend breaking up the page into a what is pvr, and xbmc pvr history. After that a description of addons/backends that currently work, along with a link to their homepages and the opdenkamp repo for the addons. Finally include some compiling instructions as it is not yet clear to many on how to compile the pvr addon repo and get the addons into xbmc.
that wiki page is terribly outdated indeed, still pointing to my old ppa and sources Smile
Keith and I were talking about it at DevCon and he said he would be able to help. I'm about to go down the TVheadend path myself so that I will actually have some understanding on how it works.

The wiki can easily have sub-pages/multiple pages, navigation between pages, etc. I figure it might be best to break up pages by major steps, such as PVR backend, setting up XBMC, hardware considerations, etc (just as an example). Or if people don't think it's too much into, we can have it all on a single page. If anyone needs help with special formatting or layout and doesn't understand the wikimarkup, just let me know. I'll even be glad to handle that kind of thing as long as people are able to contribute the raw content.
Also, if anyone just wants to dump links to other guides and helpful reading references, feel free to post them here too.
(2012-09-25, 01:50)robweber Wrote: [ -> ]While Openelec should be mentioned, the xbmc wiki is not the openelec wiki; as such detailed install instructions on that platform should be referred to the openelec site. I think the wiki should educate the user while providing xbmc specific instructions with links to other info.

What I meant is that if we add specific instructions how to install (and may [not] set) backends, then as long xbmc live doesn't include backends we should mention openelec and add link to openelec wiki, for an inexperienced user it may be more sense and easier to have an openelec box acting both as htpc and a backend server for multiple xbmc clients (with different os).

Didn't meant to create another openelec wiki, I agree this isn't smart.
Just added a draft wiki page about installing vdr as a backend.
As you may notice this is very messy draft and partial, my main intention is to get some feedback.

What we should include in xbmc's wiki?
Every pvr backend got it's own wiki, should we just add a link to the proper wiki?
If we add backend installation how's to, then how should we treat different os? a wiki page for each os?
What about cam software (like oscam) for reading cam modules (not card sharing)? the millenium act forbid to break drm, no matter if your a paying customer, so it may be illegal to include here instructions for that.

I wouldn't worry too much about DRM stripping. Technically speaking, XBMC does this with physical DVD disc playback, so technically speaking, Americans are supposed to compile their own version of XBMC without DVD playback :D

I think we should at least have something for each PVR backend, and then we can link to the various PVR backend sites/wikis for in-depth information. We at least want some forum of XBMC-centric quick start guide that is on our wiki (various reasons, such as always having our own copy in case a website goes away, our wiki is CC-SA-BY so people can make manuals from it, people can get the basics without jumping to 10 different sites, etc).

Great work on the addition, by the way! Don't worry if it's messy at this point, since that's the nature of a wiki when a topic first starts.
I'm very much against adding howto's for oscam and such on our own wiki.
I just read over the VDR installation instructions. Although a very good document, shouldn't the process of how to install/configure the backends be an issue better provided by each individual backend? I think that information about where the backend meets XBMC needs to have documentation; but detailed install/config instructions are just going to end up getting outdated as they aren't tied to the source project.

For instance - I use mythtv. The Mythtv wiki has pages and pages of documentation on how specific hardware and operating systems should be configured for that system. There is no way that the xbmc pvr page could possibly be as detailed for someone looking to setup mythtv - that is the "job" of that particular wiki. Trying to reproduce that will just get people in the xbmc forums asking questions as to why the process doesn't work (as it becomes outdated) or why their particular situation isn't in the wiki (ie, I use Fedora, where are those instructions?).

I just redid how I think the PVR page should be setup - keep in mind I deleted a lot of stuff here. Goals were as follows:

1. Provide history - not complete
2. Explain what backends are compatible, and how to find a guide to install them. Leave the rest up to the user. Things like specific tuner cards, operating systems, etc are covered in detail on each projects wiki page. No need to repeat them here.
3. Explain how to get the pvr addons, compile, and get them into xbmc - not even started. I don't have a good working knowledge of how the current process works. If someone could fill this in better I think it could be a good start to the PVR page.

I removed what looked to be lots of outdated information on getting PVR builds and compiling them. Anyone looking to compile from source can look to the main XBMC repo now - maybe a link to those instructions is necessary? Again, just my thoughts on this so I won't be offended if someone removes all my changes and starts from scratch.

p.s. I did not cross check the addon authors or forum links - just updated the install links to the correct pages.
(2012-09-28, 17:33)dushmaniac Wrote: [ -> ]I'm very much against adding howto's for oscam and such on our own wiki.

Is that the pirating one? I'm not familiar with the 'cam stuff.
Softcams etc. are needed for the backend, not the frontend, so no need for them to be on the Wiki really.

Not that there is anything wrong/illegal with them.
Love to help here, Nate, but I'm struggling to type with one arm in plaster...!

Random, disjointed thoughts... just thinking what I've seen asked/discussed...

Worth explaining why XBMC uses external backends, vs. an integrated one (an oft-asked question)?

Any thoughts on explanation of features supported and not supported - some of this is in the intro but could be laid out to be obvious to a newcomer

keymapping.xml - the defaults or how to change them?

Card support (DVB-T, -S/S2, -C) is via the backend so not a function of XBMC

generic 'how to enable a backend'/config details, where the options are, what appears when you switch it all on

tidy up existing backend notes to be clear on OS support (addon and backend)

...damn that's hard work to type ,,,
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