I'm looking to build a XBMC box to watch my anime on the telly as opposed to the monitor. My price range is cheap, real cheap. Under $100 cheap would be optimal. My requirements are the ability to watch 720p .mkv files through an external HDD plugged into the box. They videos will be in Hi10p, as that is the standard for anime. I don't need any fancy streaming.
The two machines I've been looking at are the
G-Box Midnight and the
Mini MK802. I've only quickly looked through those, and I'd like to ask your advice as to what my best options are for going about this little project.
I'd say forget about getting a cheap box for anime. The Hi10p decoding is done per CPU and you need a very capable cpu to do it, those cheap players won't cut it. Currently the way to go for this stuff is getting an HTPC with a nice processor
The WDTVLive boxes play MKVs very well. Interface isn't nearly as nice as XBMC, and a bit sluggish. But the cheaper option (one without internal HDD) is ~$100 and has USB ports to plug in externals.
WDTVs can't play
Hi10P (wiki).
Personally, I just use re-encode groups or release groups that have (consumer) standard "8-bit" h.264 files.
A safe generalization/recommendation/whatever would be a core2duo or higher (or equivalent AMD processor). No standalone or ARM/Android/iOS device can playback Hi10P, it has to be a desktop class CPU, and can't be something like an Intel Atom/nettop. It has yet to be done, despite what some may claim.
To do this under $100 would mean using salvaged/used parts and getting lucky with prices.
(2012-12-11, 12:23)Ned Scott Wrote: [ -> ]Personally, I just use re-encode groups or release groups that have (consumer) standard "8-bit" h.264 files.
That's what I've been doing as well but it's not always easy to find them...
It's interesting to observe that 2 years have passed since this thread started and, from what I can gather, there still aren't any sub-100$ boxes that can decode Hi10P (please correct me if I'm wrong). It seems the current best "cheap" option is a Chromebox which costs a bit more. I think I'll eventually buy one but, since last month Intel released
the Broadwell-U celerons and there
are rumours that chromeboxes will be updated to use these, I'll wait a bit until that happens.
(2015-02-05, 20:49)oWarchild Wrote: [ -> ]That's what I've been doing as well but it's not always easy to find them...
It's interesting to observe that 2 years have passed since this thread started and, from what I can gather, there still aren't any sub-100$ boxes that can decode Hi10P (please correct me if I'm wrong). It seems the current best "cheap" option is a Chromebox which costs a bit more. I think I'll eventually buy one but, since last month Intel released the Broadwell-U celerons and there are rumours that chromeboxes will be updated to use these, I'll wait a bit until that happens.
a Broadwell ChromeBox, should it be released, may very well suffer the same fate as the BayTrail ones - no usable legacy boot - which means it might not be usable for Kodi at all; will need to wait and see.
Thanks for the heads up Matt, I'll surely check the forums to see how Kodi support goes before buying anything.
I can play hi10p 1080p anime files with 16 reference frames at level 5.1 on my haswell i3 nuc. Only drawback is I have to use MPC-HC (media player classic home cinema) in windows 8.1 to achieve this. Playing it in 13.2 Gotham is a no go. I also tried playing the same file in openelec 4.2.1 for my chromebox and got the same result (studder during bitrate spikes).
I'll also note that I have no problems playing 720p hi10p anime files on my chromebox using openelec.
Bottomline, you will have to spend more than $100 to achieve what you're trying to achieve. For 720p hi10p you could probably get away with a $150 chromebox. For 1080p hi10p you're going to need at least a haswell i3 nuc running windows.
Hi Ikecomp, thanks for the insight. According to melter on an older thread (below) a Chromebox will play "most" FullHD Hi10p anime but will stutter on a few ocasions. Personally I'm waiting to see if Broadwell Chromeboxes will be released and what their capabilities are as the i3 is out of my budget. Till then I'll be using the good old Rpi1 and 8 bit encodes.
(2014-07-14, 01:02)melter Wrote: [ -> ]important for anyone looking to buy a chromebox and plans to watch Hi10p content on it:
I bought the base chromebox (Celeron 2955U) a few weeks ago and have ran into issues with Hi10p content. I watch alot of 1080p Hi10p encoded anime, and the problem arises with scenes where there is a "film grain" effect (during flashbacks for example in "Another - Episode 10") this only happens on SOME anime, mostly with larger file size episodes (more reference frames maybe?). Anyway, the video just stops to buffer for 30 seconds, continues play back for 10-20 seconds, then stops to buffer again. As soon as the film grain flashback ends, playback continues smoothly.
CPU usage is about 50% during regular scenes and 80%-98% during scenes with film grain. Memory usage remains below 20% (I added a second 2GB stick of RAM for total of 4GB), and I am also playing from a USB 3.0 connected HDD (which I also tested on my Desktop PC and had no issues); so I am sure this problem is caused by the CPU.
Again, I do have other 1080p-Hi10P anime that plays without issue, but keep in mind this box is not able everything you throw at it. The CPU seems like it is just barely managing to keep up IMO.
I will likely return the chromebox and get an i5 Brix or something with a beefier CPU.
EDIT: Btw the box is running the latest XBMC on OpenELEC 4.0.7.
http://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=...pid1752337
(2015-02-05, 23:22)ikecomp Wrote: [ -> ]I can play hi10p 1080p anime files with 16 reference frames at level 5.1 on my haswell i3 nuc. Only drawback is I have to use MPC-HC (media player classic home cinema) in windows 8.1 to achieve this. Playing it in 13.2 Gotham is a no go. I also tried playing the same file in openelec 4.2.1 for my chromebox and got the same result (studder during bitrate spikes).
Any chance for a link to that file? Sounds like a good test case.
(2015-02-05, 23:22)ikecomp Wrote: [ -> ]I'll also note that I have no problems playing 720p hi10p anime files on my chromebox using openelec.
Bottomline, you will have to spend more than $100 to achieve what you're trying to achieve. For 720p hi10p you could probably get away with a $150 chromebox. For 1080p hi10p you're going to need at least a haswell i3 nuc running windows.
Oddly enough, most of my 1080P Hi10P files play without noticable issues on my Chromebox (I don't notice a few dropped frames here and there), but while I agree that an i3 would be preferable, why on earth would you want to run Kodi on Windows?
(2015-02-06, 02:03)oWarchild Wrote: [ -> ]Hi Ikecomp, thanks for the insight. According to melter on an older thread (below) a Chromebox will play "most" FullHD Hi10p anime but will stutter on a few ocasions. Personally I'm waiting to see if Broadwell Chromeboxes will be released and what their capabilities are as the i3 is out of my budget. Till then I'll be using the good old Rpi1 and 8 bit encodes.
(2014-07-14, 01:02)melter Wrote: [ -> ]important for anyone looking to buy a chromebox and plans to watch Hi10p content on it:
I bought the base chromebox (Celeron 2955U) a few weeks ago and have ran into issues with Hi10p content. I watch alot of 1080p Hi10p encoded anime, and the problem arises with scenes where there is a "film grain" effect (during flashbacks for example in "Another - Episode 10") this only happens on SOME anime, mostly with larger file size episodes (more reference frames maybe?). Anyway, the video just stops to buffer for 30 seconds, continues play back for 10-20 seconds, then stops to buffer again. As soon as the film grain flashback ends, playback continues smoothly.
CPU usage is about 50% during regular scenes and 80%-98% during scenes with film grain. Memory usage remains below 20% (I added a second 2GB stick of RAM for total of 4GB), and I am also playing from a USB 3.0 connected HDD (which I also tested on my Desktop PC and had no issues); so I am sure this problem is caused by the CPU.
Again, I do have other 1080p-Hi10P anime that plays without issue, but keep in mind this box is not able everything you throw at it. The CPU seems like it is just barely managing to keep up IMO.
I will likely return the chromebox and get an i5 Brix or something with a beefier CPU.
EDIT: Btw the box is running the latest XBMC on OpenELEC 4.0.7.
http://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=...pid1752337
I remember that post, and I equally remember that the mentioned file played without noticable issues on my Chromebox. Apart from the beginning and at a couple of spots in the opening sequence, it didn't even drop a single frame. And even where it did drop frames, I wouldn't have noticed if I was simply watching.
(2015-02-06, 14:23)DocG Wrote: [ -> ] (2015-02-05, 23:22)ikecomp Wrote: [ -> ]I can play hi10p 1080p anime files with 16 reference frames at level 5.1 on my haswell i3 nuc. Only drawback is I have to use MPC-HC (media player classic home cinema) in windows 8.1 to achieve this. Playing it in 13.2 Gotham is a no go. I also tried playing the same file in openelec 4.2.1 for my chromebox and got the same result (studder during bitrate spikes).
Any chance for a link to that file? Sounds like a good test case.
(2015-02-05, 23:22)ikecomp Wrote: [ -> ]I'll also note that I have no problems playing 720p hi10p anime files on my chromebox using openelec.
Bottomline, you will have to spend more than $100 to achieve what you're trying to achieve. For 720p hi10p you could probably get away with a $150 chromebox. For 1080p hi10p you're going to need at least a haswell i3 nuc running windows.
Oddly enough, most of my 1080P Hi10P files play without noticable issues on my Chromebox (I don't notice a few dropped frames here and there), but while I agree that an i3 would be preferable, why on earth would you want to run Kodi on Windows?
(2015-02-06, 02:03)oWarchild Wrote: [ -> ]Hi Ikecomp, thanks for the insight. According to melter on an older thread (below) a Chromebox will play "most" FullHD Hi10p anime but will stutter on a few ocasions. Personally I'm waiting to see if Broadwell Chromeboxes will be released and what their capabilities are as the i3 is out of my budget. Till then I'll be using the good old Rpi1 and 8 bit encodes.
(2014-07-14, 01:02)melter Wrote: [ -> ]important for anyone looking to buy a chromebox and plans to watch Hi10p content on it:
I bought the base chromebox (Celeron 2955U) a few weeks ago and have ran into issues with Hi10p content. I watch alot of 1080p Hi10p encoded anime, and the problem arises with scenes where there is a "film grain" effect (during flashbacks for example in "Another - Episode 10") this only happens on SOME anime, mostly with larger file size episodes (more reference frames maybe?). Anyway, the video just stops to buffer for 30 seconds, continues play back for 10-20 seconds, then stops to buffer again. As soon as the film grain flashback ends, playback continues smoothly.
CPU usage is about 50% during regular scenes and 80%-98% during scenes with film grain. Memory usage remains below 20% (I added a second 2GB stick of RAM for total of 4GB), and I am also playing from a USB 3.0 connected HDD (which I also tested on my Desktop PC and had no issues); so I am sure this problem is caused by the CPU.
Again, I do have other 1080p-Hi10P anime that plays without issue, but keep in mind this box is not able everything you throw at it. The CPU seems like it is just barely managing to keep up IMO.
I will likely return the chromebox and get an i5 Brix or something with a beefier CPU.
EDIT: Btw the box is running the latest XBMC on OpenELEC 4.0.7.
http://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=...pid1752337
I remember that post, and I equally remember that the mentioned file played without noticable issues on my Chromebox. Apart from the beginning and at a couple of spots in the opening sequence, it didn't even drop a single frame. And even where it did drop frames, I wouldn't have noticed if I was simply watching.
Hi DocG
You can find all the hi10p anime test files at the link below. The one that gives me trouble in particular is file number 1. It's the 167 MB file. When I play it in openelec on my chromebox, it starts studdering 15-20 seconds in and all the cpu cores start to max out. It eventually plays better but demonstrates the issue easy enough. I am using openelec 4.2.1 so maybe it's handled better in OE 5.
http://www.koi-sama.net/files/hi10/
As for running kodi on windows for my i3 nuc I have a few reasons.
- I can call an external player for different types of files (e.g. powerdvd for bluray discs, mpc-hc for problematic anime files, etc)
- I also use PHT (Plex Home Theater) for access to my plex server sometimes since my wife prefers the interface of PHT over kodi. This allows me to switch between them quite easily using shortcuts on my IR remote
- Windows allows me to access other sites like hulu, amazon and netflix using my browser.
There is the bloat factor with windows but it's a compromise I'm willing to make for the added versatility it provides.
(2015-02-06, 19:13)ikecomp Wrote: [ -> ]Hi DocG
You can find all the hi10p anime test files at the link below. The one that gives me trouble in particular is file number 1. It's the 167 MB file. When I play it in openelec on my chromebox, it starts studdering 15-20 seconds in and all the cpu cores start to max out. It eventually plays better but demonstrates the issue easy enough. I am using openelec 4.2.1 so maybe it's handled better in OE 5.
http://www.koi-sama.net/files/hi10/
Ahh, those. Both, files 1 and 2, have stutter for about the first 15 seconds during frame rate adjust on my Chromebox. From about 15 seconds in both play without any noticable issues for me. Running OE 5 now, but was the same with 4.2.1.
(2015-02-06, 19:13)ikecomp Wrote: [ -> ]As for running kodi on windows for my i3 nuc I have a few reasons.
- I can call an external player for different types of files (e.g. powerdvd for bluray discs, mpc-hc for problematic anime files, etc)
- I also use PHT (Plex Home Theater) for access to my plex server sometimes since my wife prefers the interface of PHT over kodi. This allows me to switch between them quite easily using shortcuts on my IR remote
- Windows allows me to access other sites like hulu, amazon and netflix using my browser.
There is the bloat factor with windows but it's a compromise I'm willing to make for the added versatility it provides.
That's just fair enough, but I was more referring to this statement of yours:
(2015-02-05, 23:22)ikecomp Wrote: [ -> ]Bottomline, you will have to spend more than $100 to achieve what you're trying to achieve. For 720p hi10p you could probably get away with a $150 chromebox. For 1080p hi10p you're going to need at least a haswell i3 nuc running windows.
Why add "running windows"? Didn't you say yourself that file was a "no go" with Gotham on Windows? Then why recommend Windows in particular? I've played that file in Gotham, and now in Helix, on my i3 Linux box, and while it didn't play the first 15 seconds perfect, the issues were so minor that it hardly lessens your viewing experience. On my Chromebox there was noticable stutter during the first 15 seconds, but nothing that would make that file unwatchable. In fact, I've yet to find a 1080P Hi10P file that is unwatchable on my Chromebox. Surely, these occasional hiccups don't mean that you couldn't get away with a Chromebox for 1080P Hi10P content, or? IMO, you absolutely can get away with it, and I have been. Nor do I see how going to an i3 running Windows improves things, unless you meant to say people shouldn't use Kodi for these things, but use Media Player instead?
(2015-02-07, 00:49)DocG Wrote: [ -> ] (2015-02-06, 19:13)ikecomp Wrote: [ -> ]Hi DocG
You can find all the hi10p anime test files at the link below. The one that gives me trouble in particular is file number 1. It's the 167 MB file. When I play it in openelec on my chromebox, it starts studdering 15-20 seconds in and all the cpu cores start to max out. It eventually plays better but demonstrates the issue easy enough. I am using openelec 4.2.1 so maybe it's handled better in OE 5.
http://www.koi-sama.net/files/hi10/
Ahh, those. Both, files 1 and 2, have stutter for about the first 15 seconds during frame rate adjust on my Chromebox. From about 15 seconds in both play without any noticable issues for me. Running OE 5 now, but was the same with 4.2.1.
(2015-02-06, 19:13)ikecomp Wrote: [ -> ]As for running kodi on windows for my i3 nuc I have a few reasons.
- I can call an external player for different types of files (e.g. powerdvd for bluray discs, mpc-hc for problematic anime files, etc)
- I also use PHT (Plex Home Theater) for access to my plex server sometimes since my wife prefers the interface of PHT over kodi. This allows me to switch between them quite easily using shortcuts on my IR remote
- Windows allows me to access other sites like hulu, amazon and netflix using my browser.
There is the bloat factor with windows but it's a compromise I'm willing to make for the added versatility it provides.
That's just fair enough, but I was more referring to this statement of yours:
(2015-02-05, 23:22)ikecomp Wrote: [ -> ]Bottomline, you will have to spend more than $100 to achieve what you're trying to achieve. For 720p hi10p you could probably get away with a $150 chromebox. For 1080p hi10p you're going to need at least a haswell i3 nuc running windows.
Why add "running windows"? Didn't you say yourself that file was a "no go" with Gotham on Windows? Then why recommend Windows in particular? I've played that file in Gotham, and now in Helix, on my i3 Linux box, and while it didn't play the first 15 seconds perfect, the issues were so minor that it hardly lessens your viewing experience. On my Chromebox there was noticable stutter during the first 15 seconds, but nothing that would make that file unwatchable. In fact, I've yet to find a 1080P Hi10P file that is unwatchable on my Chromebox. Surely, these occasional hiccups don't mean that you couldn't get away with a Chromebox for 1080P Hi10P content, or? IMO, you absolutely can get away with it, and I have been. Nor do I see how going to an i3 running Windows improves things, unless you meant to say people shouldn't use Kodi for these things, but use Media Player instead?
Yep, the stutter you mentioned was from a 2 minute file. If the remainder of the file is similar to the beginning of the file than you will likely notice more stutter the more the file plays. I mentioned windows because it gives the option of installing software that handles these files better than kodi (that's why I mentioned MPC-HC). MPC-HC handles these files without any stutter so that proves the i3 can handle it but the i3 using kodi can not. I haven't had a chance to try windows on a chromebox as hdmi sound is broken but it may be able to handle the files using MPC-HC. Unfortunately, MPC-HC is not available in linux flavors so that's why the strong push for windows if you need 100% trouble free playback.
(2015-02-07, 01:59)ikecomp Wrote: [ -> ]Yep, the stutter you mentioned was from a 2 minute file. If the remainder of the file is similar to the beginning of the file than you will likely notice more stutter the more the file plays.
As I've said, I had no stutter past the first 15 seconds playing it on my Chromebox.
(2015-02-07, 01:59)ikecomp Wrote: [ -> ]I mentioned windows because it gives the option of installing software that handles these files better than kodi (that's why I mentioned MPC-HC). MPC-HC handles these files without any stutter so that proves the i3 can handle it but the i3 using kodi can not. I haven't had a chance to try windows on a chromebox as hdmi sound is broken but it may be able to handle the files using MPC-HC. Unfortunately, MPC-HC is not available in linux flavors so that's why the strong push for windows if you need 100% trouble free playback.
That makes absolutely no sense to me. Have you ever tried any of this on a Linux box? I mean playback, not playback with MPC-HC?
I realize that this thread originated from 2012 as h264 10bit was all the rage in the anime scene, but if you consider that so many in the anime scene jumped on 10bit and this caused a problem for XBMC users at the time, and even today, as even with full support it's full software support, this will all likely happen again. I'll bet good money that the anime scene goes HEVC the hardest before any anyone else and so a 'cheap, anime box' today might be a 'not so useful box' in the very near future. The same was with the scene and using OGM for dual audio and soft subtitles, later MKV to do the same, later MKV's ordered chapters... Large scale adoption of HEVC in the anime scene is inevitable and probably become very noticeable in the next 6-12 months.