What id like to see from xbmc as a whole: wish it were possible, doubt it could ever happen! But it would be great for XBMC and the monetary gains would be outstanding:
1.1 place with all addons there!
2.Once a coder codes an add on it then becomes the property of XBMC's BUT:
The dev would get paid to make the add on, update it and keep it up to date
3.certain add ons could get a subscription based pay depending on what it includes that would come from the users but the amount would be set up as to how good the coder stays up on it and how they mitigate issues within that add on ( example: if that add on doesnt work properly the dev would be held accountable to fix it and stay on top of it etc....
4. If a user is subscribing to an internet sight the dev can obtain a small fee from any user willing to use this add on and for the coding work put into the add on for that said site, and for keeping it up todate
( of course there would need to be oversight to ward off any retaliation from someone if say their add on was rebranded to something else etc.... Etc... And some rules would have to be set in place for other stuff such as coding and such but there is a laundry list of stuff that could be included)
4. 1 web site for xbmc only! This means any web site that would like to use the brand name of XBMC would have to pay dues in order to use the XBMC name as well as have oversight from the main XBMC website developer(s) and owner(s) to make sure they are within said rules and regulations
There would have to be repricusions if said rules and or regulations are violated per the XBMC agreement...
Thats just what i as a user would love to see happen so that XBMC as a whole can grow and prosper and so that devs can be held accountable for what they code and devs can be paid in certain ways so their hard work is not done in vain and so they feel appreciated
Whats everyone think of this?
2, 3 and 4 will never ever happen.
1. Impossible to achieve as everyone is free to do whatever they want.
1. Any add-on that passes our requirements can be added to the official XBMC add-on repo, if an add-on author wants to submit it there. There are rules, and not every add-on can be added there.
2. No one really "owns" open source software, and there would be no point in XBMC having ownership of individual add-ons. If add-on authors want to be paid then that money has to come from somewhere.
3. Subscription services already work with a lot of add-ons. Some companies have even paid add-on authors to make add-ons. Team XBMC/XBMC.org is a non-profit and we don't have the resources to organize something like that ourselves. It also puts us in a bad position for liability.
4. This is already possible, and in some cases is done.
5. There will always be multiple websites for anything people like and are involved with, but as far as branding, within the limitations of trademark US law, sure. Depends on how a website represents itself and XBMC's involvement.
(2013-10-02, 06:43)Martijn Wrote: [ -> ]2, 3 and 4 will never ever happen.
1. Impossible to achieve as everyone is free to do whatever they want.
Why would 2,3 and 4 never happen? Xbmc is a brand correct? Someone has to have some sort of rights to the name, i would of thunk?
#1 could happen if someone owned the name and had the rights to it... Then none could just do what they wanted
Trademark law prevents someone from doing something and implying certain things, but it can't prevent someone from making software/accessories/whatever for something that is trademarked.
For example, Apple has a "Made for iPhone" accessory "certification". They control that "seal of approval", but anyone can make a case for an iPhone 5 and say "this is a case for an iPhone 5" without getting formal approval. They only need approval if they wish to imply Apple has officially endorsed the product, for example.
(2013-10-02, 06:46)Ned Scott Wrote: [ -> ]1. Any add-on that passes our requirements can be added to the official XBMC add-on repo, if an add-on author wants to submit it there. There are rules, and not every add-on can be added there.
2. No one really "owns" open source software, and there would be no point in XBMC having ownership of individual add-ons. If add-on authors want to be paid then that money has to come from somewhere.
3. Subscription services already work with a lot of add-ons. Some companies have even paid add-on authors to make add-ons. Team XBMC/XBMC.org is a non-profit and we don't have the resources to organize something like that ourselves. It also puts us in a bad position for liability.
4. This is already possible, and in some cases is done.
5. There will always be multiple websites for anything people like and are involved with, but as far as branding, within the limitations of Trade Mark US law, sure. Depends on how a website represents itself and XBMC's involvement.
Very well spoken ned! So its free software that cant be owned? It could be if u were willing to take on the liability factor but even then there are always ways around that because once released u dont have a say in how a user uses their xbmc machin while in the comfort of their own homes... That would then fall on the user do to XBMC not being liable once its in the users hands
Take a look at megaupload... Sure it got shut sown but there were rules in place but once the user registered mega isnt really in the fault... In my eyes anyways...
(2013-10-02, 06:51)Ned Scott Wrote: [ -> ]Trademark law prevents someone from doing something and implying certain things, but it can't prevent someone from making software/accessories/whatever for something that is trademarked.
For example, Apple has a "Made for iPhone" accessory "certification". They control that "seal of approval", but anyone can make a case for an iPhone 5 and say "this is a case for an iPhone 5" without getting formal approval. They only need approval if they wish to imply Apple has officially endorsed the product, for example.
True to that abd that is why there would be unsupported add ons users wish to use... The legality and liability would then fall on the user not the branded XBMC... Such as napster, he made a program the users used it for what they wanted... Some got sued, some did not... It all in the game
i think it's sad to see how far from our principles our user base apparently is. we did not bring you this program just to fuck you over like any other lame ass commercial vendor. we are NOT in this for the money. we never were. that's just your view of the world. ours at least used to be different. deal with it. take your money and use it elsewhere, it has absolutely no influence here.
(2013-10-02, 06:51)j2048b Wrote: [ -> ]Take a look at megaupload... Sure it got shut sown but there were rules in place but once the user registered mega isnt really in the fault... In my eyes anyways...
LOL... Do you think that your thoughts are helping Kim Dotcom with his frozen assests, mounting legal fees and extradition to the US? Just because you think something is fine to do doesnt make it legal, in the real world anyway...
Oh, and how's Napster doing today?
(2013-10-02, 09:28)spiff Wrote: [ -> ]i think it's sad to see how far from our principles our user base apparently is. we did not bring you this program just to fuck you over like any other lame ass commercial vendor. we are NOT in this for the money. we never were. that's just your view of the world. ours at least used to be different. deal with it. take your money and use it elsewhere, it has absolutely no influence here.
Ok and y do do u believe id be in it for monetary gains only: u missed the ENTIRE POINT,
It was to spark a conversation amongst adults who would rather see XBMC grow rather than have a bunch of whiny ass people who'd rather split apart over something such as money than stay at one place who enjoyed doing what they do because it brings them joy...
And u said:
we are NOT in this for the money. we never were. that's just your view of the world. ours at least used to be different
Yours at least USE to be different... My point exactly!! Shit has changed now and if people want to do it for the money then something should be done differently... And since the views have changed, something should be done so it doesnt happen again...
Remember this thread was an open thread based on my own .02 from a business stand point, backed by a degree in business....
Shit happened a bit recently that has made a lot of people sit back and think deeply about how to not have some stuff happen again... My .02 is that it wont IF there is there is more oversight overall on how some stuff can be fixed and ultimately run...
(2013-10-02, 09:40)teeedubb Wrote: [ -> ] (2013-10-02, 06:51)j2048b Wrote: [ -> ]Take a look at megaupload... Sure it got shut sown but there were rules in place but once the user registered mega isnt really in the fault... In my eyes anyways...
LOL... Do you think that your thoughts are helping Kim Dotcom with his frozen assests, mounting legal fees and extradition to the US? Just because you think something is fine to do doesnt make it legal, in the real world anyway...
Oh, and how's Napster doing today?
I never said it wasnt illegal, my point was based upon the rules that were set forth and in place at the time a user registered... Once thats said and done the user is more at fault for uploading what they did on to his service than was... Yes they could have worked harder to clean stuff up and made sure everything was of legal in nature...
Napster i confess was not a good example haha sorry xbmc didnt mean to compare at all made a mistake there!
sure, i never said people can't do it for the money. they are fine to do so - on their own private initiative. i just said your money will not have any influence on the team.
(2013-10-02, 10:29)spiff Wrote: [ -> ]sure, i never said people can't do it for the money. they are fine to do so - on their own private initiative. i just said your money will not have any influence on the team.
Oh i know that for sure! All im doing is sparking conversation with some suggestions that may or may not be used for future securities towards xbmc as a whole...
The main item which ive found out basically wont ever happen is that once an add on is coded it becomes the intellectual property rights of xbmc's this way people cannot just willy nilly into peoples boxes when they see fit and take anything over or even remove or add items the end user has not okayed! That in my mind is one of the biggest things i believe needs to be dealt with and there should def be tougher oversight over things of that nature in order to keep xbmc respectable and the people working on add ons more trustworthy and accountable towards their add ons as well as toward users...
Well, that should only happen if people install add-on repositories that they don't trust or shouldn't trust ;)
(2013-10-02, 10:36)j2048b Wrote: [ -> ] (2013-10-02, 10:29)spiff Wrote: [ -> ]sure, i never said people can't do it for the money. they are fine to do so - on their own private initiative. i just said your money will not have any influence on the team.
Oh i know that for sure! All im doing is sparking conversation with some suggestions that may or may not be used for future securities towards xbmc as a whole...
The main item which ive found out basically wont ever happen is that once an add on is coded it becomes the intellectual property rights of xbmc's this way people cannot just willy nilly into peoples boxes when they see fit and take anything over or even remove or add items the end user has not okayed! That in my mind is one of the biggest things i believe needs to be dealt with and there should def be tougher oversight over things of that nature in order to keep xbmc respectable and the people working on add ons more trustworthy and accountable towards their add ons as well as toward users...
all (or most) addons are published under GNU v2 so they are no one his property.
also we will never going to maintain some one else his addons.
if they stop maintaining we will simply remove them from the list. if some one else wants to maintain it also fine with the courtesy that they first try to contact the original author.
The addons in our repo are code checked so they should not harm you system like some other addon repos might do but again this is for the user to deside what repos he installs and the risk he takes.
believe me we do deny adding some addons from time to time.
(2013-10-02, 11:00)Martijn Wrote: [ -> ] (2013-10-02, 10:36)j2048b Wrote: [ -> ] (2013-10-02, 10:29)spiff Wrote: [ -> ]sure, i never said people can't do it for the money. they are fine to do so - on their own private initiative. i just said your money will not have any influence on the team.
Oh i know that for sure! All im doing is sparking conversation with some suggestions that may or may not be used for future securities towards xbmc as a whole...
The main item which ive found out basically wont ever happen is that once an add on is coded it becomes the intellectual property rights of xbmc's this way people cannot just willy nilly into peoples boxes when they see fit and take anything over or even remove or add items the end user has not okayed! That in my mind is one of the biggest things i believe needs to be dealt with and there should def be tougher oversight over things of that nature in order to keep xbmc respectable and the people working on add ons more trustworthy and accountable towards their add ons as well as toward users...
all (or most) addons are published under GNU v2 so they are no one his property.
also we will never going to maintain some one else his addons.
if they stop maintaining we will simply remove them from the list. if some one else wants to maintain it also fine with the courtesy that they first try to contact the original author.
The addons in our repo are code checked so they should not harm you system like some other addon repos might do but again this is for the user to deside what repos he installs and the risk he takes.
believe me we do deny adding some addons from time to time.
Yup, its too bad in some sense because if they became property of xbmc's then we wouldn't have splits amongst people and the most recent state of affairs that occurred could have been avoided in many ways and yea i know its over and stuff move on... But its true.... More oversight and tighter qa and such on certain items and no more crap going on but then can opened worms all over the place over other items that come up....
Oh well at least ive peaked some good convo amd hopefully laud down some things for people to talk about and consider for the future