I just registered here and hope you guys can help me out. I ran into living-room media centrals a few days ago and have days of long internet research behind me...
I want to substitute my PS3 (oldest model) as a living room media central. So I am looking for a new, silent, energy-saving device that can play NAS-based audio files selected on smartphone/tab without a TV, plays DVDs and blurays (I have no 3D TV) and once in a while videos from the NAS (Synology DS110j). Low-level Gaming (via steam or android apps) is a nice add-on, but I do not need a full-grown Gaming machine with dedicated GPU. And I want to avoid closed systems like Apple TV, WD TV or so.
Inexpensive option: Micro-PC
One of those dev boards with decent power and passice cooling. The RPi seems to work, but not really as a reliable and enjoyable main system. Freescale i.MX6 Quad running Android or OpenElec & XBMC currently seems to be the solid choice and actually quite impressive in capability. The SolidRun CuBox-i4-Pro with SD seems pretty complete für us$ 140 / 110 €, but I read much about unprofessional support and 2 months shipment to Germany. The Wandboard Quad seems to be better supported and has a local distributor, but sums up to ~170 € for basically the same hardware parameters. I thought I could add an external BD-Player, but your sticky "Where do You Start?" thread says bluray is a killer for those devices - Even after some research, I do could not find the background for that, so maybe you guys can help me understand better.
Full option: x86 HTPC
A NUC or mini itx barebone or thin itx case (SSF in any case) or so with a low power but up-to-date (Haswell) intel core i3 or celeron with decent integrated GPU with OpenElec or Windows. Internal Blueray, upgrading should be simple, I could even play some steam or other advanced games on lower detail. There are really endless options, and at least with a thin itx, I found an haswell i3 setup that costs not much more than 320 € without the BD player - which is exceeding my self-set budget a little, but seems reasonable more for quite a bit of add-on advantages.
Has anyone experiences with those Freescale devices? Can they actually be used as a main media system, and is it capable of bluray Disc playing? The rest seems quite to fit my needs... Or is a low-end x86 HTPC definitely worth the price difference (obviously at least doubling the price...)? I know, the price difference could be somewhat lower with older CPUs, but that usually results in other costs (higher CPU frequency, more elaborate cooling, less compatibility, and so on), so I would not like to save $30 at that place...
Real BluRay with Menue is Windows Only. I woul prefer a NUC, maybe the new one with Celeron N2820 (2,4Ghz) Streeprice 130€
Not sure, but I think the only non-x86 architecture OpenElec support is Raspberry Pi - don't think they support i.MX6, AMLogic, Exynos etc. (Geexbox and others do though)
OK, after some more research, I understand that:
Neither Linux nor Mac can provide a player software for bluray discc. And since there are no Windows ports to i.MX6 hardware, I need a x86, running not OpenElec but a Win OS (which explains why you can hardly buy a media box with BD drive...). I am actually a little surprised that the BD standard does not support the OpenSource community...
So for my purpose, I can use any hardware with Linux and just play DVDs, or for a full BD player, I need some solution like the Haswell Celeron. A NUC kit seems to miss a drive slot in the case, so I need the board/processor and a mini-itx case or an external (Sata or USB) drive?
(2014-01-12, 10:58)novamax Wrote: [ -> ]OK, after some more research, I understand that:
Neither Linux nor Mac can provide a player software for bluray discc. And since there are no Windows ports to i.MX6 hardware, I need a x86, running not OpenElec but a Win OS (which explains why you can hardly buy a media box with BD drive...). I am actually a little surprised that the BD standard does not support the OpenSource community...
So for my purpose, I can use any hardware with Linux and just play DVDs, or for a full BD player, I need some solution like the Haswell Celeron. A NUC kit seems to miss a drive slot in the case, so I need the board/processor and a mini-itx case or an external (Sata or USB) drive?
There are other alternatives. Some of the Popcorn Hour media players (C200 for instance) support BD Drives and Media Streaming - though the front ends aren't as polished as XBMC.
If you rip Blu-rays then XBMC under Linux (and OS X I think) will support playback (though not with the full menu and interactive experience) of the main movie relatively straightforwardly (including subtitles and audio selection) Ripping Blu-rays is easy under Windows, but is also possible under Linux AIUI. Many of us have ripped our DVDs and Blu-rays to a server (unRAID is popular) and watch them in XBMC. (XBMC under Windows also allows you to call an external Blu-ray player app just for Blu-ray playback I believe)
and just to add you will pay less for celeron nuc (847) than for some quadcore android device..
BHH
@Noggin:
Might not be OpenElec, but some users here developed some linux (yocto?) image for those devices (see "[i.MX6] XBMC running on Freescale SoC's" thread) - Maybe I got this confused.
I was not aware of popcordhour so far, thanks for the hint - Still, the German Amazon reviews do not sound to positive, and I had my history of proprietary firmware non-updates, so I really prefer an open system with XBMC.
We actually often watch DVDs/BDs bought for a good price or rented from a video store. I do not want to invest much time in ripping technology and keep the Disc option. This might be an unusual user profile here as appearently many users prefer to go "full streaming".
The 847 seems to be the "old" celeron - I guess it would be good to wait for the haswell CPU/board without case since it has more power, less heat, and better graphics and build it into a case supporting an internal disc drive. Or should I avoid the heat source and combine the nuc with an external drive (usb or sata)?
Oh, and since I'll be needing a WinOS - Does the NUC come with one, or is there any cheap way to legally get an inexpensive Win licence for a small scale purpose? I really like the boot up speed of Win 8...
(2014-01-12, 10:58)novamax Wrote: [ -> ]I am actually a little surprised that the BD standard does not support the OpenSource community...
It's the whole point of copy protection - if decryption keys and source code were available to the public, making a program to copy blurays would be trivial for a decent programmer.
In any case, why not keep your PS3 around for blurays (and games)? I understand wanting to have everything in one device, but this seems to be your cheapest and most hassle-free option.
True - Yet a data disc only makes sense if you can decode and play it. But there probably is a reason why firmware and Windows programmers may do that, but Linux and OSX may not.
Actually, you are pretty right - I could make a start with a low level device. #1 reason for the new device is audio without screen - which can be solved even with an RPi. But as I know myself
sooner or later #2 will kick in: The old PS3 model's fan blows quite persistently while playing movies or mp3s (and while gaming, too). It works and will work further, but even from 10 ft. distance, it is not much fun. Then, I will regret having settled with a half-way solution. On the other hand, gathering some experience with OpenElec/XBMC on an RPi will not drain out my wallet and keep me running for a while to see what technology the close future brings... I'm not really decided at the moment...
(2014-01-12, 19:58)novamax Wrote: [ -> ]@Noggin:
Might not be OpenElec, but some users here developed some linux (yocto?) image for those devices (see "[i.MX6] XBMC running on Freescale SoC's" thread) - Maybe I got this confused.
Yep - Yocto and Geexbox and lots of other distros exist for other ARM solutions. However OpenElec is a specific distro - and very well regarded. OpenElec is not the same as any old XBMC+Linux distro.
Quote:I was not aware of popcordhour so far, thanks for the hint - Still, the German Amazon reviews do not sound to positive, and I had my history of proprietary firmware non-updates, so I really prefer an open system with XBMC.
I've run two Popcorn Hours for a number of years (A-100 and now C-200). They aren't perfect, and I've never bothered with the Jukebox front-end. However for video and audio quality, and for the ability to properly play Blu-ray Folders and ISOs (as well as commercial Blu-ray discs) they aren't bad. Dune HD was also a similar box ISTR.
Quote:We actually often watch DVDs/BDs bought for a good price or rented from a video store. I do not want to invest much time in ripping technology and keep the Disc option. This might be an unusual user profile here as appearently many users prefer to go "full streaming".
Me too. I have a cheap and cheerful Blu-ray player for this purpose.
XBMC (and the Popcorn Hour before it) were for watching the stuff I own and have ripped to my server for convenience.
Well, a PS3 for casual gaming, an RPi for mp3 / basic movie streaming, a dedicated bluray box for BD/DVD/CD - See, my idea of initially the PS3 and now of a living room PC was to substitute all that with one affordable device, without being tied to the usual weak support. Seems I'm expecting too much of those cute boxes, though...
Anyway, if I decided for a full Win OS setup: Ideas would still be appreciated to evaluate affordability regarding:
- AMD vs. Celeron (current vs. hopefully soon available bay-trail),
- internal vs. external disc drive, and
- source for an affordable WinOS.
I'm not sure why people watch movies via a disk. If you ever have young kids, you will get very tired of buying replacements of their favourite film. DVD and BluRay are a "lucky dip" -- will it work, will it freeze part way through. Don't forget your cleaning cloth so you can waste your time even more.
To answer your main question: Cubox-i is only suitable if you are willing to rely on a development community. For more certainty buy an Intel based machine (which will be 2x-4x more expensive for total build cost).
Yes, it seems Cubox-i (yet) is a less problem-free solution for productive use than the proprietary stuff, so I see, I it's Intel or RPi (and probably soon after Intel...).
if my whole environment was be based on files, I would not need discs. But when I met up with friends for a video night, they don't bring their NAS or hdd to check if I can read their formats. When friends give me a movie as a present, people don't want to hand me a download link. When my girl-friend wants to browse the shelves of a local movie rental with friends, she doesn't want to rely on me ripping the disc for 30 minutes before they can start the movie. Apparently, the stores still are filled with discs because people buy them. So when I see something I like, I don't want to hope I can get it as cheap in some online store, nor do I want to come home and start ripping.
I am aware that many in the HTPC scene have adapted to different habits - Although some of you seem to use dedicated disc players, which kind of makes me want to use the term "MSPC" (media streaming) instead of "Home Theatre".. Let's just say discs still too much mainstream convenient for me to drop this option...
Just want to point out it's now possible to get retail Blu-Ray disc's working under Linux now, see
http://forum.xbmc.org/showthread.php?tid=173474
Not sure how reliable it is as I haven't got round to trying it, so there maybe rough edges and not work 100% of the time, but it would save the cost of a Windows license.