(2017-07-31, 22:24)Warner306 Wrote: [ -> ]GPU set to full?
Edit: I believe the answer is yes. This sounds like a bug in DSPlayer.
Just writing back to verify that, yes, it is set to full.
(2017-08-01, 01:38)stoolzo Wrote: [ -> ]Hi, firstly range on Kodi is irrelevant to an extent as this only changes the gui colour range, you can tell immediately when this is wrong but set this last, MADVR is rendering so KODI colour range is bypassed.
First off, thanks for writing this lengthy post to help me, but I'm not sure you're right about this point. In my experience, this is not true. If don't have the Kodi limiter on, then my problem disappears (although this is not really viable since the GUI and anything played in videoplayer is clearly way too dark). I believe what's happening is that whenever I bring up the GUI with Kodi range limiting enabled, the Kodi color range limiting is not being bypassed, it's being applied on top of the madVR limiting.
(2017-08-01, 01:38)stoolzo Wrote: [ -> ]Set your GPU to 4:2:0 10 bit, then set MADVR to 0-255, then play the black clipping pattern and check your TV. It will either be correct or too bright If I am right as mine is set to LOW on my LG TV. Last of all load KODI, if the GUI is washed turn 16-235 off.
You are suggesting that I apply limiting through my GPU and let everything else just pass through without limiting. I can understand why you would suggest this, as it would greatly simplify matters. Unfortunately, as I mentioned in my first post I've already tried this, and if I apply the limiting through my GPU and let everything else pass through, I get horrible banding. (I believe this is a known problem with this type of configuration due to the multiple scaling passes that this requires.) For me, the only way to get decent-looking dark areas is to set my GPU to full and have madVR/Kodi limit the color range.
As a brief aside, I have no settings on my TV that affect the color range. It's 16-235 and can't be changed.
Hi, to clarify, are you saying that changing the colour space in KODI does affect your picture or not?, if it does then you must have set DS to use the standard renderer rather than madvr, there is no other way this can happen.
I can guarantee that my colour space settings are correct and i'm right about the chain, there are no extra conversions going on here, i've literally spent months looking into this. Start here, this is only half the picture but its a good start at understanding whats going on.
http://kodi.wiki/view/Video_levels_and_color_space
If you have no colour range it might be called "HDMI black level" on your TV
(2017-08-01, 18:58)stoolzo Wrote: [ -> ]Hi, to clarify, are you saying that changing the colour space in KODI does affect your picture or not?, if it does then you must have set DS to use the standard renderer rather than madvr, there is no other way this can happen.
Yes, it affects the picture when the OSD is displayed. DSPlayer is set to madVR as a renderer. As another poster suggested, it may be a bug.
(2017-08-01, 18:58)stoolzo Wrote: [ -> ]I can guarantee that my colour space settings are correct and i'm right about the chain, there are no extra conversions going on here, i've literally spent months looking into this. Start here, this is only half the picture but its a good start at understanding whats going on.
http://kodi.wiki/view/Video_levels_and_color_space
I'm not saying that your settings are incorrect, per se. They do result in proper black levels. However, unless I'm reading it wrong, even the link you sent me verifies that banding is an issue with this setup. You are asking for Full-range video rendering, a limited range GPU, and a limited range TV setup. To quote your link, "Full, Limited, Limited -- This should be avoided since there are two levels of scaling which will likely cause unnecessary banding." You may have a TV or GPU or whatever that doesn't show the banding, but it is very apparent on my system.
(2017-08-01, 18:58)stoolzo Wrote: [ -> ]If you have no colour range it might be called "HDMI black level" on your TV
My TV is older and does not have any setting for changing this. It is limited only. It's actually pretty common for older/cheaper TVs to be lacking this setting.
if changing colour space in koding is affecting your playback this is you first point of call, everything is irrelevant until you get that sorted as you are not using MADVR rendering.
Have you tried setting up MADVR in MPC-HC as a test?
Unno, if you press CTRL+J during playback do you see madVR stats?
(2017-08-02, 04:32)Unno Wrote: [ -> ] (2017-08-01, 18:58)stoolzo Wrote: [ -> ]Hi, to clarify, are you saying that changing the colour space in KODI does affect your picture or not?, if it does then you must have set DS to use the standard renderer rather than madvr, there is no other way this can happen.
Yes, it affects the picture when the OSD is displayed. DSPlayer is set to madVR as a renderer. As another poster suggested, it may be a bug.
(2017-08-01, 18:58)stoolzo Wrote: [ -> ]I can guarantee that my colour space settings are correct and i'm right about the chain, there are no extra conversions going on here, i've literally spent months looking into this. Start here, this is only half the picture but its a good start at understanding whats going on.
http://kodi.wiki/view/Video_levels_and_color_space
I'm not saying that your settings are incorrect, per se. They do result in proper black levels. However, unless I'm reading it wrong, even the link you sent me verifies that banding is an issue with this setup. You are asking for Full-range video rendering, a limited range GPU, and a limited range TV setup. To quote your link, "Full, Limited, Limited -- This should be avoided since there are two levels of scaling which will likely cause unnecessary banding." You may have a TV or GPU or whatever that doesn't show the banding, but it is very apparent on my system.
(2017-08-01, 18:58)stoolzo Wrote: [ -> ]If you have no colour range it might be called "HDMI black level" on your TV
My TV is older and does not have any setting for changing this. It is limited only. It's actually pretty common for older/cheaper TVs to be lacking this setting.
Colour space, mine is:
GPU: 4:2:0 – 10bit
MADVR: 0-255
TV: LIMTED.
So this equates on that diagram to: Full, Limited, Limited -- Video Level CORRECT : WtW & BtW Clipped, Double scaling
Note however, the diagrams are quite confusing, where it says source, it actually means KODI or MADVR so mine is;
FULL - (MADVR) - LIMTED (GPU) - LIMITED (TV)
Alternative I can use:
GPU: 4:4:4 – 8bit
MADVR: 16-235
TV: LIMTED.
Limited (MADVR 16-235), Full (GPU), Limited -- Video Level CORRECT : WtW & BtB preserved, Zero scaling
However, with this desktop is crushed.
(2017-08-02, 14:44)ashlar Wrote: [ -> ]Unno, if you press CTRL+J during playback do you see madVR stats?
Thank you for this question. It's a good way to verify that I am using madVR. The answer is "yes." When I push CTRL+J, I see all the madVR stats on the left hand side of my screen. Unlike the Kodi OSD, the madVR stats do not cause my black levels to change.
(2017-08-02, 15:04)stoolzo Wrote: [ -> ]Colour space, mine is:
GPU: 4:2:0 – 10bit
MADVR: 0-255
TV: LIMTED.
So this equates on that diagram to: Full, Limited, Limited -- Video Level CORRECT : WtW & BtW Clipped, Double scaling
As I said in my last post. "Full, Limited, Limited -- This should be avoided since there are two levels of scaling which will likely cause unnecessary banding."
(2017-08-02, 15:04)stoolzo Wrote: [ -> ]Alternative I can use:
GPU: 4:4:4 – 8bit
MADVR: 16-235
TV: LIMTED.
Limited (MADVR 16-235), Full (GPU), Limited -- Video Level CORRECT : WtW & BtB preserved, Zero scaling
However, with this desktop is crushed.
Yes, this is what I'm using. I don't care about it crushing my desktop. I rarely exit Kodi on this system, and I've got an automated task setup to change my GPU color range to limited whenever I do exit it. What I do care about is decent video playback without banding, and as far as I can tell, I can only achieve that with the Zero Scaling setup, which the link you posted calls the "best option."
can you give and example of a movie scene or a clip I can download in which you see banding using FLL, i've not seen any that isnt on the master, if this is truly a think I want to move back to LFL.
I'm also intrigued about this task you've got setup to change your colour space range, I couldnt find a combination of reg keys to change my ATI card using a batch fiile, how are you doing it?
I use DEVCON and SETRES command using batch files as KODI doesnt always come back to 4k desktop when I exit it and DEVCON to reset my HDMI handshake / audio.
On my screen, the banding pops up in dark areas. I noticed it intermittently for awhile, but the scene that finally made me research the problem and switch to LFL a few months ago was a scene in the La La Land Bluray. When Emma Stone sings her audition at the end, the lights all go out around her. With FLL, the area surrounding her is a whole bunch of dark bands, With LFL, it's totally smooth. Again, this may not be the case on your system. I'm only running a 1080p Vizio, so it's a pretty safe bet that your LG 4K is a much better monitor, and maybe ATI cards do better scaling than Nvidia cards, I'm not sure.
As far as changing my color space range, I have an Nvidia card, and I just push keyboard commands to the Nvidia Control Panel to do the switch. I use my flirc and a Logitech Harmony to push the key sequence, because I was lazy and it was convenient. However, you can also send key presses with batch files or a variety of automation programs. In my case, I push Windows+3, which starts my Nvidia Control Panel, Alt+o to select the Output dynamic range, arrow up to toggle from limited to full, and Alt+a to Apply the setting. I would guess you could do something similar with your ATI control panel or whatever it's called. It's not as elegant as using reg keys, but it does work.
if this really is a thing surely one of the gradient patterns would pick this up or there would be a test for it, i cant find anything anywhere.
i'm not aware of any key command that will change colour space for ATI, i'll just have to keep searching the registry.
Please can you pinpoint that scene in la la land, 00:00:00, thanks.
(2017-08-05, 14:29)Unno Wrote: [ -> ]On my screen, the banding pops up in dark areas. I noticed it intermittently for awhile, but the scene that finally made me research the problem and switch to LFL a few months ago was a scene in the La La Land Bluray. When Emma Stone sings her audition at the end, the lights all go out around her. With FLL, the area surrounding her is a whole bunch of dark bands, With LFL, it's totally smooth. Again, this may not be the case on your system. I'm only running a 1080p Vizio, so it's a pretty safe bet that your LG 4K is a much better monitor, and maybe ATI cards do better scaling than Nvidia cards, I'm not sure.
As far as changing my color space range, I have an Nvidia card, and I just push keyboard commands to the Nvidia Control Panel to do the switch. I use my flirc and a Logitech Harmony to push the key sequence, because I was lazy and it was convenient. However, you can also send key presses with batch files or a variety of automation programs. In my case, I push Windows+3, which starts my Nvidia Control Panel, Alt+o to select the Output dynamic range, arrow up to toggle from limited to full, and Alt+a to Apply the setting. I would guess you could do something similar with your ATI control panel or whatever it's called. It's not as elegant as using reg keys, but it does work.
ok, found the scene, its at 01:38. Thats not banding though, thats just common compression noise and I can see it using 444 and 420. I'm still thinking about going back to RGB though but 420 solves lots of problems for me, I use my HTPC as a full media center for web, photos etc so its a lot easier to not have change and mess with colour spaces and other settings, everything just works with 420 as it should.
I would change in a second though if someone can show me a clip that highlights banding created by 420, not only have not seen any that I know isnt present on the master but if you google it nothing comes up.
I installed DSPlayer 17.3 Krypton - build (20170525-71390e4) on my pc with window 10, but the director's dvd files do not start with DSPlayer, but only with the internal kodi playr.
How do i play dvd with kodi + DSPlayer?
Hey all,
Can you give a brief high level of how DSPlayer+MadVR is better than MPCHC+MadVR?
Relatively new Kodi user..
(2017-08-05, 22:32)stoolzo Wrote: [ -> ]ok, found the scene, its at 01:38. Thats not banding though, thats just common compression noise and I can see it using 444 and 420. I'm still thinking about going back to RGB though but 420 solves lots of problems for me, I use my HTPC as a full media center for web, photos etc so its a lot easier to not have change and mess with colour spaces and other settings, everything just works with 420 as it should.
I would change in a second though if someone can show me a clip that highlights banding created by 420, not only have not seen any that I know isnt present on the master but if you google it nothing comes up.
I no longer have a copy of La La Land, because I hated the movie and got rid of it. Anyway, I'm not sure if that's the right time or not. I would have thought it was later, but if she's singing that song about her aunt in Paris, it's the right time. I know the difference between banding and compression noise. On my screen, there is banding in that scene when I'm running FLL. There isn't any banding when I'm running LFL.
On your setup, you apparently don't have that problem, which is cool. Although, if scaling isn't giving you any banding, I kind of wonder why you don't just run FFF, since your screen supports it, and you'd get better looking colors on non-video stuff. Anyway, I don't have any other clips to tell you about off the top of my head, but if there's no banding or you're not noticing it, why does it really matter? As you said, running limited is easier. Unfortunately, due to banding on my screen, this is not a good option for me.