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Full Version: HOW TO - Kodi 2D - 3D - UHD (4k) HDR Guide Internal & External Players
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@zxaura1,

I mean no disrespect but, how on earth could changing your resolution from 2160p to 1080p, while KODI is open, and then back again, screw up your entire system so bad you have to format and start over?

Why would you install v.18 "over" v.17.6?  We just discussed the importance of backing up existing v.17.6 and installing a fresh v.18 for testing with you and others in detail by multiple users one page back?

Sorry this happened to you.  I don't know what to say...
(2018-08-24, 06:45)Mount81 Wrote: [ -> ]Hmm... The following makes me wonder regarding the seriousness and the competence of this guide... "Suggestions for Samsung users": turn on Motion Plus. Yea, if you want constant and random generated micro stutters (hick ups) in the motion. I have H6400 and even with the sliders on 30% it will produce these (and even some micro artifacts sometimes). Not to mention the also not-so desirable soap-opera effect and in general it definitely alters artificially the "native" PQ and motion display of the video... Motion plus is better on tuned entirely OFF, or just Set to Custom and both sliders to Zero. Some -few- are lucky with higher settings to, but I wouldn't make such a suggestions if there's so high probability of PQ and motion display errors (and beside when the user won't even know why these appear).
You're spot on.  I don't take this guide seriously and I'm incompetent.  I didn't take into account your 2014 1080p television might not perform the same as my newer 4k even though my old 2010 television performed equally as well using smooth motion settings when the guide was written.  Samsung is not serious and they too are incompetent for providing the algorithm and misleading us clowns that use their TV's. 

Due to your guidance, I'm now certain I was hallucinating back in 2015 when I made that statement you find imperative to resurect. When I had the setting off and the news ticker going across my screen looked like a rapid fire machine gun of frames, I must have been mistaken.  After turning the setting on, the smoothness the algorithm provided must have also been a figment of my imagination and the pages of discussion from users also confirming smooth results elsewhere must also have been in a group trance.  We are all complete idiots but thanks to you, we've been educated.

I've read other folks (usually without the capability) complain that introducing fake interpolated 240Hz frames per second must have a high probability of terrible picture quality and errors because the native frames are no longer 'pure'.  If pure means living with horrible motion, count me out.  I paid extra for the algorithm and I'm going to use it... happily.  In fact, the clarity in motion is fantastic to my eyes and the algorithm works incredibly but remember, I'm hallucinating and incompetent.  I never understood how folks see 120 or 240 individual frames per second because all I see is a blend that leads to the smooth motion but then I'm abnormal with the incompetence and all.  I suppose I could cherry pick artificial frames out of the millions contained in a video until I came across something that was a little off and march down mainstreet with it protesting in disgust but, I'd rather just watch the movie smoothly tbh.

Maybe the algo has improved over time.  Maybe the algo from one manufacturer works better than another.  Regardless, thank you so much for your opined skills and revelations for the benefit you and you alone provide in your trolling adventures from thread to thread and the guides you yourself provide and take pride in hoping you help others.  You should also contact Samsung, LG and madshi regarding these smooth motion algorithms so you can clue them in too.  Make sure you lead off with the lack of seriousness and incompetence for full effect.

I'm frustrated.  I think the best thing to do is abandon this thread indefinitely.  You win.
@brazen1 ,

Please reconsider leaving this forum. One user's "opinion", in my eyes, should not count more than all of the meaningful interactions, guidance and advice that you have provided and participated in with many other users of this forum.  Thanks.

Regards,

Bart
(2018-08-24, 18:22)brazen1 Wrote: [ -> ]@zxaura1,

I mean no disrespect but, how on earth could changing your resolution from 2160p to 1080p, while KODI is open, and then back again, screw up your entire system so bad you have to format and start over?

Why would you install v.18 "over" v.17.6?  We just discussed the importance of backing up existing v.17.6 and installing a fresh v.18 for testing with you and others in detail by multiple users one page back?

Sorry this happened to you.  I don't know what to say...

Dear @brazen1 sorry I’ve been misunderstood. No, this procedure didn’t mess up my system and of course it’s not your fault!
First I renamed userdata folder and started to install v18 nightly x64. In the middle of this procedure Kodi discovered the old version and asked to install in the folder Program Files(x86). So I renamed userdata back and installed v18. I had already decided to do a format for other reasons which I will explain. Then I made your test and the results were as above.
The reason I formatted was that the new card 1050Ti had problem with refresh rates. For example when I selected 23Hz in NCP the card reported 24Hz (as my Receiver shows). But it was actually 23Hz because when tested to play with Kodi video player a movie (23.976Hz of course) there was no refresh rate changing on the TV. Maybe this wouldn’t be a cause for format but when playing the same movie with MPC-BE refresh rate changing happens on TV.
Also another problem was that the PC crashed and black screen appeared when switching the TV off and on again.
Finally, after the format nothing changed and I installed back my 1060 card. So it appeared that the 1050Ti is a faulty card because now everything is more than perfect.
So, after a fresh install of W10, nVidia drivers 385.28 and latest KODI v18 nightly everything is working unbelievably perfect, EXCEPT if I enable 3D in NCP. Then not only starting an HDR movie with MPC-BE takes ages and sometimes fails, but sometimes ether crashes or giving no proper sound.
Another thing I noticed is that without adding any display modes to MadVR, 3D MVC movies play perfectly!!! And when stopping KODI is in position functioning great. If I set stereoscopic 3D in NCP or 3D display on windows display settings, then everything is messed up. Not only playing HDR has problems but when closing MPC-BE then KODI goes in the known small window in up left corner, as yours.
Sorry for the long post, but I wanted to share my findings to help
(2018-08-24, 19:35)bsoriano Wrote: [ -> ]@brazen1 ,

Please reconsider leaving this forum. One user's "opinion", in my eyes, should not count more than all of the meaningful interactions, guidance and advice that you have provided and participated in with many other users of this forum.  Thanks.

Regards,

Bart
 I don't know why he would have to leave this forum. If you don't like someone's conversational style, you don't have to talk to them. Why are you reading this thread? The thread is not a political platform but a support guide. The conversation is not trash.

I help people all the time on forums, yet some opinionated people (ahem, at a specific thread in AVSForum, at the moment) still treat me like I'm dense and have no right to talk to them. That is just how they post. I don't talk to them or see them in person; I just read their posts. So what is the harm? Hell, even madshi posts replies to me in ways that can seem condescending, but that is just how his brain works.

Who cares if you are offended by one post? You can go on to the next thread...
Hei @brazen1,
sometimes someone can go mad and , of course, this is not your fault.
Please stay and carry on this magnificent and so openly helpful guide.
Please please,
Your'e the one who's taking this too personal and serious, making a total vanity question out of it. Trying to turn out my words and suggesting fakely and for no reason that it supposed to mean something directly offending towards your person. On the top of it, just to give more weight to your pleading words and project your frustration on myself, you trying to hit some malicious overtone with reversibly deconstructing my statements, embellished with cynical personal accusations to -unnecessarily- gain back the pretense of the infallible and yet even -again: only in your construct- ungodlikely questioned tutor. So it looks like -despite no matter how univocal it seams- I must emphasize here, that the content and the purpose of my post has nothing to do witch such intentions. Writing simply the facts that based on what I've -and as I've already read it on several other forums and in multiple other info sources, not just presumably by many other users have- experienced, that's all.

Ok, to just simply cut to short this big bottomed melodrama: take this very pure and simplified example: I'm a totally newbie, with not so much experience and rather uninformed regarding my freshly bought Samsung TV, or with media players and video playback and such devices and subjects in general. I run through your guide and also set up my Samsung TV as suggested, with those settings covering the Motion Plus feature. Then I trying to play back, watch and enjoy -from whatever device- some videos and after a few minutes I've just perceiving those anomalies I've informed this Thread about. Random Hiccups, scampers, and micro-stutters, maybe with some artifacting and surely with that unnaturally over-smoothed motion effect. Thinking what settings might have been wrong, searching for some solution and thus wasting time in entirely different registers thus also totally ineffectively and useless, or just -because of my lack of experience and in worst case- account it as some "normal" phenomena, that "must be" the inevitable and incorrigible accompany of this activity. 

Well, I'm happy I won't have to, and very much presumably, others would rather be as well. That's all.
(2018-08-24, 21:46)ragico Wrote: [ -> ]Hei @brazen1,
sometimes someone can go mad and , of course, this is not your fault.
Please stay and carry on this magnificent and so openly helpful guide.
Please please,
 For every opinionated post, there are a dozen that are helpful and friendly. What is the problem? He is obviously not a jerk on here...
According to thos post 2616287 (post) setting 12 bit in NVCP will cause banding, and 8 bit should be selected.
I did that and I still get banding.

Setup is 1060 GTX with 398.36 driver version, Win 7 x64, MPC HC x86 + madvr + lav latest versions, Benq W2000 (HT3050) via HDMI, Full RGB in NVCP. I have tried all combinations (changing in between 8 and 10 bit in madvr). Also tried changing the renderer from madvr to the default one (with 8 bit in NVCP selected). FSE enabled.
That sounds like a source with banding or a display that causes banding. Your projector might have difficulty with smooth gradients. That wouldn't be that uncommon. If you are watching HDR content, tone mapping (HDR -> SDR) will cause posterization by deviating from the PQ curve. Not every display will create banding with a 12-bit input. The new 10-bit panels don't all process high bit depths very well and many are actually 8-bits plus FRC and no one knows this. Your 1080p projector would likely be 8-bit, anyways.

Did you test this on a gradient test pattern or with some source content?

If it is source banding and it looks bad, set debanding in madVR to high. That is only way I know of to reliably get rid of source banding without leaving something behind.
Thank you. Have a slow work week coming with Labor Day weekend looming, will test this coming week and report results. I have 17.6 working so well. I'll read over what 18 will provide me also if I can find documentation.
(2018-08-24, 00:24)twinpeaks Wrote: [ -> ]On a whim, I just tried 398.82 from 08/01. It has completely transformed by 1050ti Kaby Lake system in ways I didn't suspect.

The driver I had settled on before [which I am not exactly sure but I have recorded in OneNote which is on my laptop downstairs - it was a 385.xx] performed well but had 2 issues

1 - I had a lot of display / resolution / timing flashes when first starting a video either tv or movie. TV was a couple, Movie could be up to 6. In fact I had a delay built into playercorefactory to account for this.

2 - Very slow bootup. I had no idea this had anything to do with my display driver - in fact, I attributed it to my low power Kaby Lake. But on 398.82 this thing boots up 2x faster. If I had known I'd have taken some formal timings.

3 - Slow movie start. This is in part to do with the delay referenced in 2 but this driver gets things moving so much more quickly.

These improvements are in addition to the other basic necessities for this driver:

1 - Proper 3D mode with proper enable and disable upon exit of 3D movie (and, of course, successful completion of Nvidia 3D setup wizard - which knocks quite a few drivers down the toilet.)
2 - Proper disable of HDR upon exit of 4K HDR movie

There are 2 issues with this driver for me

1 - the type within the control panel is puny. I'm typing this message in Edge and it's fine but to use the control panel I need to stand up and practically get breath condensation on the tv or lower the resolution to see the control panel. This falls firmly in the 'so what' category.
2 - the old dreaded pest that shows up from time to time has reared its head again. That is, upon exit, even though 3D goes off, HDR goes off, Kodi remains minimized. To quote Mutant Enemy, "GRR ARGH!" Is there anything to do programmatically or any way to fix this short of reverting back to my former driver? With this being my only problem, I may finally try 18 or just build an alt-tab into my Logitech exit macro.
 I fixed this with Full Screen / Windowed as opposed to Full Screen window disabled. No audio issues either. This makes 398.82 an outstanding driver for my system at least. Also no audio issues. Some of these drivers occasionally wind up reverting from 5.1 to stereo. I should've added that as #3 in the list of 'basic necessities' above - the 'basic necessities' list there being the most common bugs. There are very very few driver revisions that don't have a single one of these bugs and it has been awhile to find one with some good improvements. At least for a 1050ti-based system.
@Warner306
Reduce banding artifacts in madvr were both set to high, tried it without, still get banding.
Also updated to 398.82, no difference.

I did the required tests to see if the display can actually see 10 bit and was fine. I put these in MPC HC and did not see the 256 grading (disabled the 10 bit software emulation/FRC):
http://www.bealecorner.org/red/test-patt...-16bit.png
http://i.imgur.com/qv2qxVq.png
With 8 bit 256 gradiants are visible.

The source which I noticed is The Greatest Showman, both in HDR and SDR.
https://ibb.co/d4aU7p
(2018-08-26, 19:29)Warner306 Wrote: [ -> ]That sounds like a source with banding or a display that causes banding. Your projector might have difficulty with smooth gradients. That wouldn't be that uncommon. If you are watching HDR content, tone mapping (HDR -> SDR) will cause posterization by deviating from the PQ curve. Not every display will create banding with a 12-bit input. The new 10-bit panels don't all process high bit depths very well and many are actually 8-bits plus FRC and no one knows this. Your 1080p projector would likely be 8-bit, anyways.

Did you test this on a gradient test pattern or with some source content?

If it is source banding and it looks bad, set debanding in madVR to high. That is only way I know of to reliably get rid of source banding without leaving something behind.
I have read on AVS that some TV's even with 10bit panel, would show less banded PQ with 8bit HDR, than with 10 bit HDR input. They explained it with that these TV's -somehow- making the 8bit dithering better, than the 10bit dithering, so even in the case if both the source video and the display panel is 10bit, setting the output to 8bit, would look just simply better. How common could this be? Or is this just true mostly in the case of the "fake" (8bit + FRC) 10 bit panels? On top of that and more confusingly on the subject, I've also read a couple of times, that even when both the video and the display is just 8bit, one will still could have a slightly better and more banding-free PQ when the output is rather set to 10bit (I'm juts guessing, but maybe because the playback device does some "upscalling dithering" in this case). So what's truly behind these contradicting observations and opinions?

I have seen many 10 vs 8bit comparison example images in some relevant articles before, that hugely assured me regarding the undeniable and clearly perceptible advantages of a (truly) 10bit picture compared to the 8bit only "version", mostly outstanding in the much smoother and banding-free color transition. If I whenever would buy a new 10bit / HDR TV, one of the main reasons would surely be these presumed and expected advantages of the 10bit color transition, as the banding is sometimes very perceptible on my current FHD, 8bit one (Samsung H6400). So I definitely would like to avoid any possible according disappointment.
(2018-08-27, 06:44)noob00224 Wrote: [ -> ]@Warner306
Reduce banding artifacts in madvr were both set to high, tried it without, still get banding.
Also updated to 398.82, no difference.

I did the required tests to see if the display can actually see 10 bit and was fine. I put these in MPC HC and did not see the 256 grading (disabled the 10 bit software emulation/FRC):
http://www.bealecorner.org/red/test-patt...-16bit.png
http://i.imgur.com/qv2qxVq.png
With 8 bit 256 gradiants are visible.

The source which I noticed is The Greatest Showman, both in HDR and SDR.
https://ibb.co/d4aU7p
If that image is accurate, that is brutal banding. Is that HDR -> SDR or SDR?

Do you get the same outcome with both 12-bits and 8-bits? If your display is FRC, you would probably get the best results with 12-bits if the algorithm is good. I can't tell you if 12-bit or 8-bit will look the best on your projector, but if you aren't seeing banding on gradients with dithering enabled, the projector could be creating banding. There is a difference between rendering a simple gradient test and a scene like that. I can't understand why it would be that bad. If the GPU is simply using passthrough, it should be madVR's fault. You could try another media player to see if it is any better. Setting chroma upscaling to Bilinear might mask some of that banding, but not much.