Kodi Community Forum

Yes, I'm still using Frodo 12.3 (Hydra Build on Pivos DS Media Play), for reasons having to do with (Mac OS X) AFP connectivity. It has been perfectly stable for me until today, and suited my needs just fine.

Suddenly, I'm noticing two major issues:

1) Getting movie information is frequently – tho not always – resulting in an immediate crash. It seems to happen only to movies I've added in the past 4-6 months. Not to older movie additions, and not to TV shows, whether added recently or not. It's hard to detect a pattern. Some of the new additions crash every time I try. Others work sometimes and not other times. It seems to matter how long I let XBMC idle after reboot before I attempt this. (suspicion: there is some problem with background python threads going on, see logs.)

Logs of 3 sample attempts. Portions from "pressed, action is Info" to end of log only.

Note: there is plenty of capacity on userdata storage. It's on a microSD card on this box, and I'm using only 4GB of 29GB of userdata. There's also plenty of capacity on the internal storage (<20% used).

2) I'm now unable to access the XBMC Add-On.org add-ons through the manager. Doesn't show any installed, force refresh with no results. Did the server suddenly go dark? Could that relate to problem #1?

Thanks.

PS: I'm aware of the Pivos forums BTW. I just have never found them anywhere near as helpful as here.

Full logs needed as it could be plug-in related. Also the start of the logs give hardware details.

Are you letting the plugins automatically update? If yes, maybe a plugin has updated and dropped Frodo support?

The official Frodo add-on repo was disabled, IIRC. It wasn't getting any updates, and a good number of them don't work anymore.

(2015-10-12, 20:51)BatterPudding Wrote: [ -> ]Full logs needed as it could be plug-in related. Also the start of the logs give hardware details.

Are you letting the plugins automatically update? If yes, maybe a plugin has updated and dropped Frodo support?

Thank you for the reply. I hope you or Ned or someone else can help me to identify what plugin might be causing the crash.

Here are the 4 logs I took the last portions from in my head post. Log1, Log2, Log3, Log4.

If it's determined that one of the plugins in a likely culprit, I take it that the plugin now has to be removed manually due to the closure of the repo? Because it seems that a couple of the likely culprits (tvtunes, randomandlastitems) are not listed in my enabled add-ons section. Or maybe they're required, or used by the skin? I already disabled tvtunes in the skin settings, btw, but that didn't resolve the problem.

That is a lot of plugins to get my head around. Which makes sense as I could see one of those plugins getting an update and dropping Frodo support. A problem that is likely to get worse for you in the coming months.

Is there any chance you have a backup of your KODI folders? Any chance of a compare between the old and the new to see if any changed add-ons stand out?

If every time you select Movie Information it crashes, I'd work through the list of add-ons looking for those that are enhancing the results. It sounds to me like something is doing a look-up and then failing due to that online lookup not supporting Frodo any more. If this was the case, then disconnect the external cable of your broadband router and run KODI. With it running without access to any Internet information do you still get the crash?

(2015-10-13, 12:40)BatterPudding Wrote: [ -> ]That is a lot of plugins to get my head around. Which makes sense as I could see one of those plugins getting an update and dropping Frodo support. A problem that is likely to get worse for you in the coming months.

Is there any chance you have a backup of your KODI folders? Any chance of a compare between the old and the new to see if any changed add-ons stand out?

If every time you select Movie Information it crashes, I'd work through the list of add-ons looking for those that are enhancing the results. It sounds to me like something is doing a look-up and then failing due to that online lookup not supporting Frodo any more. If this was the case, then disconnect the external cable of your broadband router and run KODI. With it running without access to any Internet information do you still get the crash?

I'm confused. What KODI folders? I've never gone past Frodo 12.3. I'll test without network access next.

BTW, I appreciate the need to upgrade. But I have 2 major issues:

1) Frodo 12.3 is the last XBMC version with which AFP (apple file protocol) support worked reliably, and that really suits my setup (media served from OS X). I'd been really hoping that KODI would get SMB working for Mac OS X servers, but this hasn't happened yet.

2) the lead moderator over at the Pivos forum basically is saying that there's no way to jump from Frodo to their branded version of Helix (TOFU, lol) without starting with a clean userdata folder. Rebuilding from scratch would take me an eternity. It doesn't seem like the upgrade prognosis is so dire over here. Any thoughts on that?

(2015-10-13, 12:56)ctawn Wrote: [ -> ]I'm confused. What KODI folders? I've never gone past Frodo 12.3. I'll test without network access next.

I am just thinking the "before" and "after" any automatic upgrade of a plugin. Or just go hunting through where KODI itself is stored and where KODI is storing the settings. Look into the plugins folder and see if anything has been updated in the past week.

AH... I just looked at what a Pivos is... which I guess means you don't get much access to the OS files. Trouble is, the more you want to stride out on your own, the more you will need to hack your own files.

(2015-10-13, 12:56)ctawn Wrote: [ -> ]BTW, I appreciate the need to upgrade. But I have 2 major issues:

1) Frodo 12.3 is the last XBMC version with which AFP (apple file protocol) support worked reliably, and that really suits my setup (media served from OS X). I'd been really hoping that KODI would get SMB working for Mac OS X servers, but this hasn't happened yet.

2) the lead moderator over at the Pivos forum basically is saying that there's no way to jump from Frodo to their branded version of Helix (TOFU, lol) without starting with a clean userdata folder. Rebuilding from scratch would take me an eternity. It doesn't seem like the upgrade prognosis is so dire over here. Any thoughts on that?

I can't comment on any of that, but the more you hold back the tougher the fight will get. You are especially going to need to watch all your add-ons carefully as I expect more issues like this will crop up and you'll loose a few more until the Povos guys get things sorted.

A quick read of that post you link I can see points on both sides. Trouble is, it is only down to you to upgrade. Have you tried installing KODI on your mac in a plain vanilla way with no add-ons and then walking it through the upgrades to see if the database will convert with you okay? Don't understand why a firmware update in the TOFU thing would take it a long way from the KODI database otherwise they are opening themselves up to a lot of extra hard work in the future.

Surely if it is supposed to be a standard KODI device then it will need to interact with a standard database. And if it is to interact with a standard database, then you should be able to upgrade that in a normal way.

The more I try and make sense of this, the more I see you are stuck due to using a very custom hardware and custom software.

I can see why his comments in that thread would caused trouble if you tried to drag all the user data over. But surely the only thing you really care about it in the database. The actual video and music information. Which is why I think you are probably best off trying to upgrade just that database on the Mac. If you then take just the databases back to the POVI device I guess you'll be okay.

Is there any reason that an EXPORT and then IMPORT of the database wouldn't work? If you export your database, what information are you then loosing?

Thanks BatterPudding. I will be doing some experimentation over the next couple days and see what works. I'm not aware of Import & Export, how to do it, or what it does exactly. Any tips there? Cheers.

In the Settings, look under Videos, then Library. You will find an export option in there. Same with Music. This should then export the library so you can follow their upgrade jumps, and import the library back in again at the end. http://kodi.wiki/view/Import-export_library

Awesome, thanks! BTW it turns out that "saving Frodo" – for the time being – was a piece of cake. The problem was add-on suspect #1: tvtunes. As soon as I disabled that in the skin, and then disabled the add-on, no more crashes. So Frodo lives to see another day, and for the time being I won't be looking into moving to TOFU/Kodi.

In the event that KODI either manages to resurrect AFP support, or enables support of Apple's current variation of SAMBA/SMB or whatever it is, I will quickly reconsider. NFS just is not an appealing way to access my OS X file server. For me, it involves security concerns (exposure to the WAN), and frankly I just don't like needing to rely on yet another custom installation and set of configurations, etc., when the OS should be sufficient for file sharing.

I also have questions for Ned Scott about the Frodo repo. Is there any chance to reconsider the disabling of it? I can live with broken add-ons, but isn't it still useful to be able to update add-ons that do still work? Or are there any other viable non-official options? Can you explain a little how the repos work for various XBMC/KODI versions? Is there a separate repo for every version? Is there a Gotham repo that's still alive? How does that work for 3rd party builds like TOFU for Pivos?

Excellent. Glad you worked out how to fix it.

I am surprised about the OS X File Server SMB problems as I thought that was working well with normal Apple OS X. What's so wrong with server that is borked? I expect a new fix for that will come along soon as it is such a basic need.Lol - Apple and backward compatibility. Just read some of the posts on SMB and Apple removing stuff that people use isn't surprising. They are about selling new kit and specifically their own kit. Good luck with that one.

I can also see the logic of killing off the very old repos. Can't really expect the package developers to keep maintaining old code for such an old edition.

(2015-10-14, 10:29)BatterPudding Wrote: [ -> ]Apple and backward compatibility. Just read some of the posts on SMB and Apple removing stuff that people use isn't surprising.

It's complicated. But I have tried but failed to understand why it's so hard to support this new thing. I take it the KODI dev team relies on some other libraries, but why can't the devs of those libraries support it? It's an open source protocol from my limited understanding. At least lobby for it…

(2015-10-14, 10:29)BatterPudding Wrote: [ -> ]I can also see the logic of killing off the very old repos. Can't really expect the package developers to keep maintaining old code for such an old edition.

I can see the logic, too. But my questions still stand. Shouldn't add-ons in most cases be version independent? They're mostly python scripts, right? Shouldn't add-on XYZ update on all system versions the same way? If it turns out it's broken on an older system but works on a newer, shouldn't it be up to the user to disable it manually? Rather than not have access to it at all? Why the separate repos per version? And in any case, shouldn't the add-on manager at least list the add-ons that are currently installed, whether or not they are in the repo? (Mine doesn't for the official repo, it's just blank.)

(2015-10-14, 11:44)ctawn Wrote: [ -> ]

(2015-10-14, 10:29)BatterPudding Wrote: [ -> ]Apple and backward compatibility. Just read some of the posts on SMB and Apple removing stuff that people use isn't surprising.

It's complicated. But I have tried but failed to understand why it's so hard to support this new thing. I take it the KODI dev team relies on some other libraries, but why can't the devs of those libraries support it? It's an open source protocol from my limited understanding. At least lobby for it…

Yours was one of the posts I read on it. And I can see the point from the devs - if the third party library doesn't support it, then they can't do much about that except wait. They only have a limited number of hours in a day. Apple has always been a PITA with the way they treat third parties. Just reading a few of those posts I can see the headaches the devs have with Apple support. Trying to hit a moving and undocumented target is difficult. I have faith that eventually someone will find a way round it. Though, IMHO, the simplest solution would be to move the media hosting to a more open platform - either an old MS or Linux box or even a Pi strapped to some disks. That would at least get you into a more open environment than the closed shop that is Apple.

(2015-10-14, 11:44)ctawn Wrote: [ -> ]

(2015-10-14, 10:29)BatterPudding Wrote: [ -> ]I can also see the logic of killing off the very old repos. Can't really expect the package developers to keep maintaining old code for such an old edition.

I can see the logic, too. But my questions still stand. Shouldn't add-ons in most cases be version independent? They're mostly python scripts, right? Shouldn't add-on XYZ update on on systems the same way? If it turns out it's broken on an older system but works on a newer, shouldn't it be up to the user to disable it manually? Rather than not have access to it at all? Why the separate repos per version?

Again I can see the logic here. The main product moves on. So instead of having to keep lots of If (Frodo) do x, if (Gotham) do y, if (Helix) do z, if (Isengauard)... branching in the code the older addons get frozen on old repos.

I think you said you were a Dev yourself. I bet you love the support guys coming to you asking you to an old feature from four versions back. So I can see the sense it keeping a Repo open with older add-ons in for a while, until eventually retiring it. You use Apple kit - you should be used to that "upgrade or else" idea.

(2015-10-14, 11:55)BatterPudding Wrote: [ -> ]

(2015-10-14, 11:44)ctawn Wrote: [ -> ]the KODI dev team relies on some other libraries, but why can't the devs of those libraries support it?… At least lobby for it…

I can see the point from the devs - if the third party library doesn't support it, then they can't do much about that except wait.

As I've suggested, they could lobby. I would do so myself as well (and encourage others to) if I knew who the developers of this mysterious 3rd party libsmbclient were. So I'm asking: who are they and how can we contact them?

Incidentally, in reviewing the situation with NFS & SMB just now, one user reported that SMB on OS X 10.11 El Capitan is now again working with XBMC (11) Eden. If it's true, something has changed for the better with El Capitan in terms of providing backwards compatibility. And the question then is, does it now work with current versions of KODI? And if not, why not? I just tested this with KODI 15 running on my iPhone. I again got the same "Error 2: Share not available" message when browsing SMB:. So it doesn't seem to work with KODI and El Capitan as the server.

(2015-10-14, 11:55)BatterPudding Wrote: [ -> ]Apple has always been a PITA with the way they treat third parties. Just reading a few of those posts I can see the headaches the devs have with Apple support. Trying to hit a moving and undocumented target is difficult.

No argument there. But if you want to keep software alive, you have no choice but to deal, painful as it is.

(2015-10-14, 11:55)BatterPudding Wrote: [ -> ]I have faith that eventually someone will find a way round it.

Well, that's exactly what I'm waiting for, and what I'm hoping to expedite here, obviously.

(2015-10-14, 11:55)BatterPudding Wrote: [ -> ]Though, IMHO, the simplest solution would be to move the media hosting to a more open platform - either an old MS or Linux box or even a Pi strapped to some disks.

That may be what it comes down to. When I bought this Pivos box, it was advertised as the Official hardware for XBMC, believe it or not. No jailbreak required, installed out of the box, etc.

(2015-10-14, 11:55)BatterPudding Wrote: [ -> ]

(2015-10-14, 11:44)ctawn Wrote: [ -> ]Shouldn't add-ons in most cases be version independent? … Shouldn't add-on XYZ update on on systems the same way? If it turns out it's broken on an older system but works on a newer, shouldn't it be up to the user to disable it manually? Rather than not have access to it at all? Why the separate repos per version?

The main product moves on. So instead of having to keep lots of If (Frodo) do x, if (Gotham) do y, if (Helix) do z, if (Isengauard)... branching in the code the older addons get frozen on old repos.

I am not yet seeing why this is necessary. Let the add ons get frozen on the old repos then, and let the legacy users deal with the breakage on a case by case basis. But instead of doing that they've disabled the old repos wholesale. Or else maintain a single repo and let the updates break for legacy systems, again it being up to the legacy user to deal.

Incidentally, at least after a lot of trial and error Apple has sort of dealt with this situation for iOS & iTunes. The App Store on iTunes on the Mac will download upgraded apps, but not install them on older, incompatible iOS versions. Then, if you want to freshly install the "last compatible version", you can do it on your iDevice.