(2016-02-18, 00:56)Gombeek Wrote: [ -> ]Point 4 I mean it Kodi isn't optimal on a lot of the Android devices right now... sure they have come a long way and eventually it will be better but there is even a video on Kord Kutters where they discuss the Amazon Fire Stick and what a POS it is and how it is the worst thing you can use for Kodi.
That never happened. Nate and I are the two guys in Kord Kutters, you know that, right? Hell, I still use a FireTV box and two sticks in my house for Kodi.
(2016-02-18, 00:03)Ned Scott Wrote: [ -> ]@Gombeek
In no particular order:
Pivos was a company for years before the XBMC/Kodi port, with products that only played back a user's local library. They wanted a better player for their hardware business. So, no, Pivos was not banking on the streaming add-ons (legal or not). There's no pretending going on, these are facts. You don't get to drag Pivos's name through the mud like all of the people who assume Kodi devs make Kodi for pirating.
Kord Kutters is not endorsed by the Kodi project, and does not promote pirate/bootleg methods. The concept of cord cutting is not defined by piracy. The term typically refers to using legal streaming services, OTA, and local media as an alternative to cable TV. Nate and I don't help anyone pirate content.
YouTubers are free to talk about pirate add-ons and even make help videos for them. It is about how the Kodi brand is presented, and not a ban on giving information. The Kodi group doesn't even have that kind of authority. They can't stop people from saying "this works in Kodi" or "this is how you do it in Kodi", but they can stop people who are making it sound like its something official or it's some kind of main feature (for a lack of better words, sorry).
The Kodi group does not sign deals with companies. Sponsorships are done as no-strings-attached, to the point where companies walk away because they don't get anything special. Major efforts have been taken to reduce the need for any sponsorship, and to hopefully be totally community funded.
There are certain values that have to be upheld for Kodi. User freedom, open source, ease of use, and others are among them. "Solutions" that violate those are not going to be accepted. We don't want to be called rapists either, but we're not going to stop talking to women. Stopping Android development is the most absurd suggestion I've heard yet. You might as well suggest stopping all Kodi development as a possible solution. You think there are conflicting positions because the Kodi group does not choose the easiest methods to solve part of the problem. That's called cutting off your nose to spite your face.
The Kodi group seeks a solution that fits their goals, and is not simply whatever is easiest. It's very short sighted to think that it can't be done, and everything that has happened in the last week suggests that it can be done.
Ned, again I'm going to say it, your responses are always very political and well worded and i mean that as a sincere compliment.
I don't disagree with you regarding the when people make their youtube channel/videos/whatever sound like official words from Kodi it's wrong, It's immoral and deceptive, and I don't blame Kodi in the least from enforcing action on sed violators.
While i do have to chuckle at your analogy regarding rapists and it's a good point, one could also say if you don't want to be called a pedophile don't hang out at children playgrounds handing out candy. It's not a matter of spiting you face by cutting off your nose, its a matter of control public opinion. The man handing out candy might just sincerely like giving candy to kids but how did that work out for MJ?
You shouldn't have to take the easiest solution, and i never said it couldn't be done, anything can be accomplished with enough time and more importantly enough money. The task is Herculean in that you don't have the resources of a for profit organization and you're lacking in the public support, meaning that the majority of the general public perceives Kodi in a manner that is contradictory to how you want it to be seen.
IMHO
(2016-02-18, 01:13)Ned Scott Wrote: [ -> ] (2016-02-18, 00:56)Gombeek Wrote: [ -> ]Point 4 I mean it Kodi isn't optimal on a lot of the Android devices right now... sure they have come a long way and eventually it will be better but there is even a video on Kord Kutters where they discuss the Amazon Fire Stick and what a POS it is and how it is the worst thing you can use for Kodi.
That never happened. Nate and I are the two guys in Kord Kutters, you know that, right? Hell, I still use a FireTV box and two sticks in my house for Kodi.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYUuWy4VDgE
ugh the thumbnail can't be seen when you click on the link, but the thumbnail says "Amazon fire stick: worst kodi device?"
All that being said, I do respect your opinion. I might be picking at some of the points you've made, but I do agree that this is very much a marketing issue. Cheers :)
(2016-02-18, 01:14)Gombeek Wrote: [ -> ]m Kodi it's wrong, It's immoral and deceptive, and I don't blame Kodi in the least from enforcing action on sed violators.
While i do have to chuckle at your analogy regarding rapists and it's a good point, one could also say if you don't want to be called a pedophile don't hang out at children playgrounds handing out candy. It's not a matter of spiting you face by cutting off your nose, its a matter of control public opinion. The man handing out candy might just sincerely like giving candy to kids but how did that work out for MJ?
You sound like the man shouting 'Paediatricians - hanging's too good for the bastards!'
(2016-02-18, 01:15)Gombeek Wrote: [ -> ] (2016-02-18, 01:13)Ned Scott Wrote: [ -> ] (2016-02-18, 00:56)Gombeek Wrote: [ -> ]Point 4 I mean it Kodi isn't optimal on a lot of the Android devices right now... sure they have come a long way and eventually it will be better but there is even a video on Kord Kutters where they discuss the Amazon Fire Stick and what a POS it is and how it is the worst thing you can use for Kodi.
That never happened. Nate and I are the two guys in Kord Kutters, you know that, right? Hell, I still use a FireTV box and two sticks in my house for Kodi.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYUuWy4VDgE
ugh the thumbnail can't be seen when you click on the link, but the thumbnail says "Amazon fire stick: worst kodi device?"
There's a difference in using a provocative question ("?") and actually making a statement "the AFTV Stick is a POS."
(2016-02-18, 01:15)Gombeek Wrote: [ -> ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYUuWy4VDgE
ugh the thumbnail can't be seen when you click on the link, but the thumbnail says "Amazon fire stick: worst kodi device?"
I guess the title is lacking some context. Nate's point wasn't that it was a bad device, and even mentions that he has some himself. It's more of a counterpoint to the idea that the Fire TV Stick is the best set-and-forget device or the best "go-to" device in general. He clarifies some of the misconceptions about it. Like all hardware, it has its own pro's and con's, and there are some additional PITA issues due to a lack of Google Play and how Amazon's version of Android is set up.
(Which, as someone already pointed out, is specific to Amazon and not about Kodi for Android.)
A lot of the push for the Stick was because of its cheap price, both for direct users and for eBay sellers wanting to pad their profit margins. If price is not an issue then there are much better alternatives out there, for both pro and new Kodi users, regardless of how they use it. That's a lot different than saying it's the worst POS out there.
(that would be an Allwinner box, bam!)
Personally after having a fire stick in the fire TV and fire TV 4k and a T8 plus and a dozen other different boxes I really like my Fire TV to its fast I like the Alexa voice search can order my pizza and I'll kinds of other stuff but the stick is OK.
And I get that everyone likes it as said previously because I can add the profit margin but I just think y'all if you cannot spend very much money and you want to get Taylor DI then the steak is your best bet but if you can I've seen the fire TV on sale for $85 regularly I've seen it on sale for even 75. So if you're set on something I would say a fire TV box I think they're really good and they perform well now if you're looking for something that of course has like Google play and all that the knee are you miss out on that but I like it because I'm in Amazon prime member have been for years and it's nice to be a will play my Amazon content as well as Netflix doesn't require a mouse in order to be able to use it on there like otter droid boxes.
(2016-02-18, 00:56)Gombeek Wrote: [ -> ]But if I was to do the math i would look at how many users prior to apple tv 2 existed compared to after apple tv 2 and estimate at least 75% of the apple tv 2 users were strictly 3rd party add-on users at a minimum.
Nice. We're now at the point where we're just making facts up.
(2016-02-18, 00:56)Gombeek Wrote: [ -> ]Point 3 was directed at the fact the supported channel is named "Kord Kutters"... and while we can argue it is a vague title and can mean a multitude of things it really lends it self to the piracy issue. Im not trying to suggest that is what the channel is about, and in fact i enjoy the videos, i find them informative and showcase a lot of information you don't find on typical youtube channels, its just a bad choice for a user name.
I literally know nobody that thinks cordcutting is a catchall term meaning piracy. It can mean a lot of things. It CAN mean piracy. But it can also mean using OTA TV, switching to consuming youtube channels as content, switching to DVD/Bluray only, switching to Netflix/Hulu, simply watching less TV, electing to watch sports in bars rather than at home, getting rid of your TV entirely, etc. I think the guys at Silicon Dust who make the HD Homerun would be furious that you think their industry means piracy.
The literal only thing it definitely means is stopping subscribing to cable. That's it. I have no idea how you turned that into a piracy-only concept.
(2016-02-18, 00:56)Gombeek Wrote: [ -> ]Point 4 I mean it Kodi isn't optimal on a lot of the Android devices right now... sure they have come a long way and eventually it will be better but there is even a video on Kord Kutters where they discuss the Amazon Fire Stick and what a POS it is and how it is the worst thing you can use for Kodi.
As others have pointed out, I actually think the Stick is a pretty decent device and said so in the video. The question and conversation that day was pushback against its prominence in eBay listings. And as always, remember that if a title of a news story or column starts with a question, the answer is always no.
I'm honestly getting pretty tired of this conversation, because as far as I can tell every idea you push forward is based on some, frankly, pretty weird assumption on your part that's based on absolutely zero data other than what your brain makes up. So if you don't mind, I'm gonna bow out now.
(2016-02-18, 05:24)natethomas Wrote: [ -> ]I literally know nobody that thinks cordcutting is a catchall term meaning piracy. It can mean a lot of things. It CAN mean piracy. But it can also mean using OTA TV, switching to consuming youtube channels as content, switching to DVD/Bluray only, switching to Netflix/Hulu, simply watching less TV, electing to watch sports in bars rather than at home, getting rid of your TV entirely, etc. I think the guys at Silicon Dust who make the HD Homerun would be furious that you think their industry means piracy.
The literal only thing it definitely means is stopping subscribing to cable. That's it. I have no idea how you turned that into a piracy-only concept.
And I would add that people seem to forget about things like Sling TV and Playstation Vue which allow you to "cut the cord" and still allows you to legally stream cable content.
You can't put "cord cutting" in a box and say it means one thing or another. Looking at it as a piracy only term is the old way of looking at it because more and more companies are seeing the trend and are starting to provide a legal means to stream content.
BTW, Amazon does not give a rats ass about Kodi. They already have what they needed. Several boxes to control the market. They will just make sure Kodi runs well on all of their devices. They will put quality devices for cheap and compete with chinese. Look at apple tv. Now u can load the kodi without even jailbreaking. These companies need kodi to sell boxes period. They may not want to let kodi in their store maybe for liability or maybe they do not even want to deal with it. At the end of the day kodi will always run on those boxes. Also, look at the nvidia shield, what skyrocketed the sale was Kodi and a bit of the Steam games that do not even play that great. Look at the Ouya, I only have it because of it. Same with the Raspberry. Pivos, Matricom group. Kodi should go after them. Kodi should be suing amazon for allowing these Chinese boxes come preloaded and same as Ebay. These boxes even come with the Kodi xbmc stamped right on the box. Talk about a lawsuit! Let the youtubers be. As I see it youtube is there for u to talk about what ever the F.. u want. There are websites that have info on 3rd party addons and I think that is fine as it is not inside the Kodi Forum. I mean, people have to go somewhere to talk about it. Yes, sites that sell the boxes p reprogrammed should be taken down. I trulu believe that this is hurting the people that have helped kodi become so big. But please show me a good lawsuit against the companies selling the boxes from china with a kodi or xbmc stamp on it. Then this will make some sort of sense.
If kodi really wants to get rid of piracy, they should start acting instead of creating threads after threads discussing about this.
you getting no where. its been talked about for years.
a simple kodi search on amazon brings 3,469 results majority android boxes
Take them all down
Its soo simple to do so aswell. you dont need any trademarks, you dont need any copyright... for f... sake its piracy.. anyone can submit a take down notice to amazon. just like someone took down kodi from amazon. obviously amazon did not do this them self, if so SPMC would had been down too. some kiddie just tried, and it worked.
youtube is time consuming, however amazon and ebay are the places these scammers manke money. hit them where they bleed. stop discussing start acting. and those sites, that sell boxes, send an email to paypal or their card company, and they done for good. soo simple.
if you guys dont believe me, provide me a url to amazon, and a website and i can show u within 72 hours, this will be taken offline.
You guys in this forum can write books by now, with the amount of discussion. I know discussion is healthy. but seriously ?
No point changing the way kodi works, piracy shall not control usability or how kodi is.
(2016-02-18, 09:51)nero12 Wrote: [ -> ]If kodi really wants to get rid of piracy, they should start acting instead of creating threads after threads discussing about this.
you getting no where. its been talked about for years.
a simple kodi search on amazon brings 3,469 results majority android boxes
Take them all down
Its soo simple to do so aswell. you dont need any trademarks, you dont need any copyright... for f... sake its piracy.. anyone can submit a take down notice to amazon. just like someone took down kodi from amazon. obviously amazon did not do this them self, if so SPMC would had been down too. some kiddie just tried, and it worked.
youtube is time consuming, however amazon and ebay are the places these scammers manke money. hit them where they bleed. stop discussing start acting. and those sites, that sell boxes, send an email to paypal or their card company, and they done for good. soo simple.
if you guys dont believe me, provide me a url to amazon, and a website and i can show u within 72 hours, this will be taken offline.
You guys in this forum can write books by now, with the amount of discussion. I know discussion is healthy. but seriously ?
No point changing the way kodi works, piracy shall not control usability or how kodi is.
Please go ahead and do a/some takedowns. From what I heard from other team members, it's a pain to get something killed on ebay, can't really speak about amazon.
just to make it clear, our foundation is not making any deals or contracts with anybody. No movie industrie, no other business. Do we try to contact some companies/websites? Sure, but the goal is to convince them to create official add-ons or give permission to create community ones. No deals, no money, nothing, just introducing the project and ask. Yet again, we're no business and have no business interests, but we still want to provide the best media center for free as we believe in open source and user freedom. If we didn't believe in that, none of us would donate his sparetime to the project.
Quote:Going to CES and having meetings with interest parties is 1 thing, having a booth representing your brand would be another.
@goombek - from which money should we pay for a CES booth? Unless some company offers us a spot on their booth I really doubt we could afford one in any way. The donations we get are just about enough to do a yearly developer conference.
(2016-02-18, 01:17)Ned Scott Wrote: [ -> ]All that being said, I do respect your opinion. I might be picking at some of the points you've made, but I do agree that this is very much a marketing issue. Cheers
I totally agree on this point Ned.
PR and Marketing, you basically need to shout to be heard these days particularity online.
Pick an easy Trademark infringing target with a Soft underbelly and go after them.
Let everybody know you are going after them, exaggerate the shit out of it, shout it out, make your voice heard.
And then when the dust settles publish the fact on your own Kodi.tv home page, and keep it dynamically updated.
(2016-02-18, 12:49)Razze Wrote: [ -> ]Please go ahead and do a/some takedowns. From what I heard from other team members, it's a pain to get something killed on ebay, can't really speak about amazon.
I sent a letter to Amazon around the time Kodi was kicked out of the Amazon Store about fully loaded boxes still for sale on the Amazon Website itself. Those boxes basically facilitating piracy in a very easy manner, and Amazon themselves being complicit by not removing them from their own store.
You know what Amazon's response was - they wanted the content owners themselves to make a complaint and then they would take the matter seriously. Basically they don't give a shit, so long as they are making a buck out of the sale of these boxes.
I will say again you need to mount a PR campaign outlining how many of these sorts of devices are actually up for sale on places like Ebay and Amazon, etc. In fact maybe contact with the MPAA might even be a serious consideration. That is step number one...