Kodi Community Forum - HiMedia Q5/Q10 Pro (2016) with Kodi (4K / HDR / 3D / HD Audio)

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...except those w/bionic ears Wink

. Think @wrxtasy's point was more on what's advertised vs. what is, and on that, he has a point.

I do agree that the box shouldn't be advertised with full 3D support and 24bit flac if it is not capable to deliver these.

However hdmkv: you already give A- to the box when the firmware was in a worse condition (23.976 micros and autoswitch problems). Now they fixed 23.976 partially (only occures with 3d iso now) and fixed autoswitch but box score still got downgraded. This doesn't make sense to me. As far as I can tell, your problem here that they does not fix what was asked from them by the western owners so this only would make sense if you would downgrade the manufacturer support to C (based on math).

Wish it was that scientific Smile

. It's both objective (A/V test, microstutters), and subjective (grade to award), and as you learn more things, they play into your overall assessment. Also, the rating is aimed more at new users considering HiMedia, and making sure they know not to expect perfection and understand issues present.

What you doing right now that you give some score to the different aspect of the product based on your eyes, guts, experiences and predefined requirement list. Which is acceptable I think. So the part scores are subjective with some objectivity as well. But the assessment of the part scores shouldn't be subjective. It's just hurt my engineer heart at the deepest. Big Grin

It's like giving all A to the part scores and the end you give a B for overall. Just doesn't make sense. That's my only concern not the part score subjectivity or the reason why you introduced the rating system itself.

PQ = A-
AQ = A+
UX = B+
Ease of set-up = B+
Build quality = A
Manufacturer support = B

If you give scores:
A+ 100
A 90
A- 80
B+ 70
B 60
B- 50

We have 6 part scores: A-(80) A+(100) B+(70) B+(70) A(90) B(60) with a sum of 470 average of 78,3 which is in the rage of A-(80) (the +-5 rage needed to not just straight A+ score could archive the A+ overall).

So if you want to downgrade the box final score, you should downgrade the partial scores. In this case you have problem with support -> you should downgrade that. If you want to represent a downgrade from A- to B+ in the overall score you should downgrade support from B(60) to C+(40) at least which gives an overall 75 score. And there you can be subjective and decide that 75 is not A- but B+ because you want to represent something.

But you can do however you feel this is your tread in the end. I just want to give some feedback so the "score system" could stay more objective. Smile

I see what you did there. Smile

Thanks for the modifications, this looks far better now.

You guys are keepin' me honest... appreciate that! Smile

I updated post #1 to add weighting to the grades that total to overall. Will start doing this with reviews going forward.

Or, we should devise a Kodi community-based grading system to make it more 'objective'... anyone want to take a stab at this? Wink

(2016-10-19, 19:37)hdmkv Wrote: [ -> ]You guys are keepin' me honest... appreciate that! I updated post #1 to add weighting to the grades that total to overall. Will start doing this with reviews going forward.

Or, we should devise a Kodi community-based grading system to make it more 'objective'... anyone want to take a stab at this?

Agreed

(2016-10-18, 21:11)wrxtasy Wrote: [ -> ]From Futeko's sales blurb for the Q10...

http://www.futeko.com/products/MP068.php

Quote:An audiophiles dream. The highest quality audio bitstreamed at the highest rate possible to compatible HDMI / SPDIF receivers. Q10 Pro supports 192Khz 24bit LPCM multi channel (5.1/7.1) FLAC.

This has clearly now been proven to be False...from @looun's testing done here:
http://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=...pid2430578

Just for clarification I don't have do "true" test , i have only read information into sytem file with mine php debug page Himedia_Debug_system.html.

(2016-10-19, 18:14)wesk05 Wrote: [ -> ]
(2016-10-19, 17:59)hdmkv Wrote: [ -> ]The audio issue, I'm not as bothered as I don't think I'd honestly be able to tell the difference between 96KHz or 192KHz rendered at full 24-bit vs. 16-bit as Q5/Q10 Pro really do. But, for audio purists, I can understand it being a bigger issue.
Unless you have an analyzer or something that can resample the output or a visual indicator, even a purist will not be able to reliably and consistently differentiate between 16 and 24-bit audio output. Just saying...

like this?

(2016-10-19, 20:02)movie78 Wrote: [ -> ]
(2016-10-19, 19:37)hdmkv Wrote: [ -> ]You guys are keepin' me honest... appreciate that! I updated post #1 to add weighting to the grades that total to overall. Will start doing this with reviews going forward.

Or, we should devise a Kodi community-based grading system to make it more 'objective'... anyone want to take a stab at this?

Agreed

forum survey ?

(2016-10-19, 16:46)wrxtasy Wrote: [ -> ]
(2016-10-19, 15:48)aelfwine Wrote: [ -> ]I think some of you guys exaggerating a little bit. Do I need 24bit FLAC? I the answer is yes for any of these specific questions I won't buy the product.
The problem is not if you do or don't need multi channel FLAC 24 bit Audio playback, the problem is the way the product is advertised. Now that is has been clearly demonstrated to be wrong. I noticed Simon (I'm assuming) from Futeko did not comment at all on my post so I will repeat it here again:

Quote:An audiophiles dream. The highest quality audio bitstreamed at the highest rate possible to compatible HDMI / SPDIF receivers. Q10 Pro supports 192Khz 24bit LPCM multi channel (5.1/7.1) FLAC.

It does not matter what the product or whom it comes from. You cannot lie when selling a Media player that gets great exposure here on the Kodi forums.

Then you have the Glaring fact that this Q10 device is in a very specific 3D only Sticky thread and being marked highly when one of its primary specific purposes - smooth 3D video playback does not even work properly. And has not done so since the day of release.
I don't care what device is being reviewed. When a Core function does not work properly on any Kodi media player, especially when judge against others, it should be marked down accordingly.

The overarching problem HiMedia now has is the one of Trust. The way the product is being advertised. And what now appears to be an unfixable problem. This ultimately is enough to keep knowledgeable customers away from buying the platform.

This might shock you, but I don't read everything you write.

I welcome someone with proper testing equipment who can prove that HiMedia Q5/Q10 Pro don't output 192Khz 24bit audio. The description on my site is based on specifications from HiMedia. I'm sticking by them unless someone can prove conclusively otherwise.

Regarding 3D, the product might be listed here in a '3D only Sticky thread', but that's nothing to do with us. Q5/Q10 Pro are general purpose media players, 3D is not 'its primary specific purpose' as you state.

The statement on our site about playing 3D-ISO is correct. The problem with 23.976Hz ISOs being output at 24Hz only became apparent in ~ July, along with other 23.976 problems which were quickly fixed. It seems 3D 23.976Hz is more difficult for HiMedia to fix (requiring intervention from HiSilicon), but fixed it will be. There will be a new firmware with new SDK (and Android 7) in a few weeks time, it will have more fixes.

wrxtasy, I don't think you have ever seen a Q5/Q10 Pro in the flesh, yet you accuse my company of abusing trust, false advertising, and lying. All of which are untrue. I suggest you tread more carefully.

And..

I'm not going to get sucked into arguing on this forum so you won't get any more posts here from me for a while.

If you want to talk about the HiMedia products please use our forum or email us.

The new Q5/Q10 Pro Android 7 firmware is scheduled for November 7th.

@futeko
This is staying in the public Kodi forum, so you are telling potential customers this: (from your Website)

Quote:Both Kodi with HiMedia wrapper and the pre-installed HiMedia video player app play full frame packed 3D BD-ISO......
with output at up to Ultra-HD 4K 60fps. 23.976 and 29.970 auto frame rate switching (match fps to HDMI output Hz) gives smooth playback of all video formats.

When there are now clearly demonstrated 3D video playback problems.

Remember HiMedia also came out with Marketing material in the early days of the Q10 saying they supported DolbyVision until some Kodi users disputed that fact, due to the Q10 having no DolbyVision Chip.

This leave us with the disputed:

Quote:An audiophiles dream. The highest quality audio bitstreamed at the highest rate possible to compatible HDMI / SPDIF receivers. Q10 Pro supports 192Khz 24bit LPCM multi channel (5.1/7.1) FLAC.

Sorry but I trust the Kodi Android Audio developers Fritsch and Koying, more than Marketing material being given to you from HiMedia.

@futeko, I'm not saying your lying outright but it looks like HiMedia are feeding you false information, which you are then using for Q10 marketing purposes.
Please clean up the disputed paragraphs of marketing material, and this argument will then end.

(2016-10-20, 10:47)wrxtasy Wrote: [ -> ]until some Kodi users disputed that fact, due to the Q10 having no DolbyVision Chip.

I don't want to beat the bush here, but "some Kodi users" statement is not a fact either. I saw numerous sources already that stated that DV does not require a dedicated chip.

(2016-10-20, 10:47)wrxtasy Wrote: [ -> ]Sorry but I trust the Kodi Android Audio developers Fritsch and Koying, more than Marketing material being given to you from HiMedia.

Actually I only saw looun's "test" about this, nothing from these other guys. Still, the function can be broken.

(2016-10-20, 10:47)wrxtasy Wrote: [ -> ]it looks like HiMedia are feeding you false information, which you are then using for Q10 marketing purposes.

I don't think HiMedia intentional feeding us false information from day 1. They do wanted to include these features in the product. However I think that the features that are not implemented correctly trough 2 update cycles after the bug report should be excluded from the advertised feature list or be rephrased at least.

(2016-10-20, 11:39)aelfwine Wrote: [ -> ]
(2016-10-20, 10:47)wrxtasy Wrote: [ -> ]until some Kodi users disputed that fact, due to the Q10 having no DolbyVision Chip.
I don't want to beat the bush here, but "some Kodi users" statement is not a fact either. I saw numerous sources already that stated that DV does not require a dedicated chip.

Are you 100% sure about your statement above:

Quote:Dedicated chips inside Dolby Vision players and televisions can communicate their capabilities such as colour space and brightness, which then optimises the display signal to the particular screen on a frame-by-frame basis, which Dolby says can ensure hues are better preserved, leading to improved skin tones among other benefits.

It’s this dedicated hardware that means that Dolby Vision can’t be simply added to a player or television through a firmware upgrade. What the chip ensures is that there’s a more precise, consistent output that plays to the device’s strengths. In contrast, HDR 10 leaves this all to the television to decide how it wants to output the image and uses only static metadata for the entire film. That actually means that Dolby Vision could benefit cheaper 4K TV sets, and televisions that haven't been properly calibrated, to a greater degree than top-end sets owned by obsessive home cinema types.

EDIT: There is good news it appears, the Hisilicon Hi3798C V200 SoC (Chip) in the Q10 apparently does support DolbyVision:
http://www.hisilicon.com/news/news/20150907.htm

Now its just a question of Firmware support and if the Q10 will ever have it Activated or if that comes with a new HiMedia product release because DolbyVision requires a Protected Video path which means a proper DRM Approved device.

(2016-10-04, 13:06)DanBa Wrote: [ -> ]
(2016-10-03, 16:21)wrxtasy Wrote: [ -> ]
(2016-10-03, 14:41)D3rdevil Wrote: [ -> ]And what about Dolby Vision is that still a possibility or not working on this machine for good?
For true DolbyVision output - You need DolbyVision material, played on a DolbyVison capable media Player feed to a DolbyVision capable display.
Both the media Player and display have to have actual DolbyVision hardware chips in them.

No Kodi media player has the required DolbyVision Hardware chip.

See here:
http://www.expertreviews.co.uk/tvs-enter...difference

You can say the same for HDR10:
For true HDR10 output - You need HDR10 material, played on a HDR10 capable media Player feed to a HDR10 capable display.
Both the media Player and display have to have actual HDR10 hardware chips in them.

A HDR10 / Dolby Vision hardware chip in a HDR10 / Dolby Vision capable media player / display is just a SoC (i.e. a computer system) which should be compatible with HDR10 / Dolby Vision.

About SoC:
"A system on a chip or system on chip (SoC or SOC) is an integrated circuit (IC) that integrates all components of a computer or other electronic system into a single chip."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/System_on_a_chip

Dolby patent about Dolby Vision features:
"... Embodiments of the present invention may be implemented with a computer system, systems configured in electronic circuitry and components, an integrated circuit (IC) device such as a microcontroller, a field programmable gate array (FPGA), or another configurable or programmable logic device (PLD), a discrete time or digital signal processor (DSP), an application specific IC (ASIC), and/or apparatus that includes one or more of such systems, devices or components..."
http://www.google.ch/patents/US20140050271

According to the CTO of Vizio, there is no specific Dolby Vision hardware chip, Dolby Vision is software (i.e. a SoC is a hardware & software computer system, and the SoC hardware is not specifically designed for Dolby Vision as well as for HDR10):
""There is no DV chip... DolbyVision is a format + processing/mapping SW."
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-lcd-fl...st43311322

A Dolby Vision demo game running on a standard PC with a standard graphics card without any specific Dolby Vision hardware chip (i.e. Dolby Vision is only software):
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-lcd-fl...st47051217

Dolby Vision compatible SoC:
http://armdevices.net/?s=dolby+vision+
http://www.cnx-software.com/tag/dolby-vision/
https://twitter.com/DanielBa78/status/77...8752881668

Apparently Dolby Vision capable media players / displays should have a Dolby Vision certification from Dolby.
Also there are Dolby Vision licensing fees:
"You may hear about one other difference between Dolby Vision and HDR10. Some people will point out that TV manufacturers pay to have Dolby Vision in their displays, while HDR10 is free. While that’s true, the difference isn’t significant. The royalty cost to add Dolby Vision ranges from less than $3 per TV to lower than $2 per TV. Manufacturers are making some very affordable Dolby Vision enabled TVs – Vizio’s M series of Dolby Vision enabled displays includes some that retail for as low as $750. Dolby Vision enables these TVs to achieve a level of performance that would otherwise require more expensive hardware."
[Giles Baker, SVP of Dolby]
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/dolby-vis...iles-baker