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Is Intel the only one currently offering SFF Apollo Lake barebones (NUC sized)?
(2017-01-23, 15:05)Dragen Wrote: [ -> ]Is Intel the only one currently offering SFF Apollo Lake barebones (NUC sized)?

No there are a few but for now Intel Nuc looks the best to me.

Liva Z
Liva ZE

VOYO
None of which are available in Norway. Looks like I have to wait for the NUCs.
(2017-01-23, 15:51)Dragen Wrote: [ -> ]None of which are available in Norway. Looks like I have to wait for the NUCs.

You can get the NUC from Amazon Shipped to Norway.
(2017-01-23, 11:25)oo.viper.oo Wrote: [ -> ]
(2017-01-20, 20:30)fritsch Wrote: [ -> ]With DVI -> HDMI there is only 3840x2160 @ 30p max.

Just for completeness for other guys reading this (I know you know fritsch :-)):

This particular Intel GPU has two video outputs (relevant for our case):
1. HDMI 1.4 output, which is connected to DVI port on the mainboard's backplate
2. DisplayPort 1.2 output, which is connected to on-board DisplayPort->HDMI 2.0 converter and output of this converter is connected to HDMI port on the mainboard's backplate

So one can connect DVI->HDMI cable to the DVI-out of this mainboard, because this DVI-out is actually HDMI-out. It's HDMI 1.4 though and consequently max. refresh of HDMI 1.4 at 4K resolution is 30p.

Therefore [email protected] is not some general limitation of DVI->HDMI, but it is limitation of this particular mainboard, because of it's implementation of DVI port.

While this is true, DVI-D only supports a max of around 10Gb/s, which is much lower then the 18Gb/s of HDMI 2.0. The bandwidth limitation also prevents DVI from going above 4k 30Hz.
(2017-01-23, 16:12)movie78 Wrote: [ -> ]
(2017-01-23, 15:51)Dragen Wrote: [ -> ]None of which are available in Norway. Looks like I have to wait for the NUCs.

You can get the NUC from Amazon Shipped to Norway.

With an extra 90 USD on the pricetag. No, thanks.
Also, I can get it with 120 GB SSD, 8 GB RAM and Win10 Pro for cheaper.
(2017-01-23, 16:37)Dragen Wrote: [ -> ]
(2017-01-23, 16:12)movie78 Wrote: [ -> ]
(2017-01-23, 15:51)Dragen Wrote: [ -> ]None of which are available in Norway. Looks like I have to wait for the NUCs.

You can get the NUC from Amazon Shipped to Norway.

With an extra 90 USD on the pricetag. No, thanks.
Also, I can get it with 120 GB SSD, 8 GB RAM and Win10 Pro for cheaper.

I think $150 would be more reasonable, especially considering it does not come with RAM or SSD. Plus you could get a board with the faster J4250 CPU.
The one he links to comes with 32 GB storage, 2 GB RAM and Win10 Home. So, it's still 90 USD in postage and import fees.
Hi all,
I'm new to this forum, but this thread was helpful to me when looking for help with building a new HTPC. I just wanted to give a heads up to anyone looking to use an ASRock J4205 board (or J3455) for an HTPC - if you are trying to connect via HDMI to a newer Samsung 4k HD TV, you may have issues with the HDMI connection. I'm running Win 10 - haven't tried Linux since I need Windows on this PC. Not sure if any other TVs have this issue, but there's a thread on the ASRock forum about it here:

http://forum.asrock.com/forum_posts.asp?...dmi-output

I just bought this board last week, and am running it in a Coolermaster 110 mini-ITX case, and couldn't get HDMI to work with my new Samsung 4k TV I bought 2 weeks ago. After reading the ASRock thread linked above, I was able to get it sort of working by unplugging HDMI, powering on the PC with it unplugged for long enough to get to the Windows 10 login. Then I plugged in the HDMI and it was able to go full 4k resolution at 60hz for the HTPC. However, as soon as I'd reboot or I'd turn off the TV for a while, the HDMI connection would be lost, and I'd need to reboot and repeat the process with the cable unplugged. This is not acceptable, since the HTPC needs to be wife/kid friendly, and having to reboot the computer each time they want to use it is not a viable solution. I did upgrade the BIOS on the board to the latest Jan 2017 version too, but it didn't help.

I ended up using a DVI to HDMI cable instead, to run video to the TV from DVI, and used the optical audio out on the J4205 board to my older Yamaha receiver for audio. I was able to get 3840x2160 @30hz resolution through the DVI, but wasn't happy with the resulting video (slightly jerky), so I just scaled back to 1080p @ 60hz and let the TV upscale it for me. The resulting picture is pretty great (compared to my 10 yr old Sony 720p TV I upgraded from), so I'll stick with this for now until more 4k content is available and all the bugs are worked out of these setups, then I'll probably upgrade the board to something better. There was also a slight issue with audio not syncing to the video since they are not running through the same cable, so I went into Kodi (using v17 RC3) and put a .1 second delay on audio playback and it's not annoyingly out of sync anymore.

Just wanted to make people aware, so if they have a newer Samsung TV they might want to avoid the ASrock boards for now. It will still work pretty well with DVI at 1080p and I do get HEVC HW decoding now, which my old HTPC couldn't do, but full 4k HDMI is super buggy with Samsung TVs and the ASRock boards.
(2017-01-23, 23:37)bigljd Wrote: [ -> ]Hi all,
I'm new to this forum, but this thread was helpful to me when looking for help with building a new HTPC. I just wanted to give a heads up to anyone looking to use an ASRock J4205 board (or J3455) for an HTPC - if you are trying to connect via HDMI to a newer Samsung 4k HD TV, you may have issues with the HDMI connection. I'm running Win 10 - haven't tried Linux since I need Windows on this PC. Not sure if any other TVs have this issue, but there's a thread on the ASRock forum about it here:

http://forum.asrock.com/forum_posts.asp?...dmi-output

I just bought this board last week, and am running it in a Coolermaster 110 mini-ITX case, and couldn't get HDMI to work with my new Samsung 4k TV I bought 2 weeks ago. After reading the ASRock thread linked above, I was able to get it sort of working by unplugging HDMI, powering on the PC with it unplugged for long enough to get to the Windows 10 login. Then I plugged in the HDMI and it was able to go full 4k resolution at 60hz for the HTPC. However, as soon as I'd reboot or I'd turn off the TV for a while, the HDMI connection would be lost, and I'd need to reboot and repeat the process with the cable unplugged. This is not acceptable, since the HTPC needs to be wife/kid friendly, and having to reboot the computer each time they want to use it is not a viable solution. I did upgrade the BIOS on the board to the latest Jan 2017 version too, but it didn't help.

I ended up using a DVI to HDMI cable instead, to run video to the TV from DVI, and used the optical audio out on the J4205 board to my older Yamaha receiver for audio. I was able to get 3840x2160 @30hz resolution through the DVI, but wasn't happy with the resulting video (slightly jerky), so I just scaled back to 1080p @ 60hz and let the TV upscale it for me. The resulting picture is pretty great (compared to my 10 yr old Sony 720p TV I upgraded from), so I'll stick with this for now until more 4k content is available and all the bugs are worked out of these setups, then I'll probably upgrade the board to something better. There was also a slight issue with audio not syncing to the video since they are not running through the same cable, so I went into Kodi (using v17 RC3) and put a .1 second delay on audio playback and it's not annoyingly out of sync anymore.

Just wanted to make people aware, so if they have a newer Samsung TV they might want to avoid the ASrock boards for now. It will still work pretty well with DVI at 1080p and I do get HEVC HW decoding now, which my old HTPC couldn't do, but full 4k HDMI is super buggy with Samsung TVs and the ASRock boards.

I have a Samsung JS8500 (2015) TV and do not have any issues on Libreelec. This may be an issue with Windows 10 I suspect, you may need to create an EDID file and install this on WIndows 10 for your TV.

Try this link, it may help even though its for loss of audio.

http://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=251833
(2017-01-24, 00:36)raidflex Wrote: [ -> ]I have a Samsung JS8500 (2015) TV and do not have any issues on Libreelec. This may be an issue with Windows 10 I suspect, you may need to create an EDID file and install this on WIndows 10 for your TV.

Try this link, it may help even though its for loss of audio.

http://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=251833

Thanks for sharing that info and link - I kinda suspected it being a sketchy HDCP handshake between the board and the TV, but it sounds like Windows might be part of the issue too. I'm pretty happy with the upscaled 1080p video for now, but if I have some free time I might tinker with the EDID solution. I chose this board to run full 4k video, and the fact that I can't do it now taunts me from the back of my mind, like a puzzle that I've failed at solving, lol.
(2017-01-23, 16:29)raidflex Wrote: [ -> ]
(2017-01-23, 11:25)oo.viper.oo Wrote: [ -> ]
(2017-01-20, 20:30)fritsch Wrote: [ -> ]With DVI -> HDMI there is only 3840x2160 @ 30p max.

Just for completeness for other guys reading this (I know you know fritsch :-)):

This particular Intel GPU has two video outputs (relevant for our case):
1. HDMI 1.4 output, which is connected to DVI port on the mainboard's backplate
2. DisplayPort 1.2 output, which is connected to on-board DisplayPort->HDMI 2.0 converter and output of this converter is connected to HDMI port on the mainboard's backplate

So one can connect DVI->HDMI cable to the DVI-out of this mainboard, because this DVI-out is actually HDMI-out. It's HDMI 1.4 though and consequently max. refresh of HDMI 1.4 at 4K resolution is 30p.

Therefore [email protected] is not some general limitation of DVI->HDMI, but it is limitation of this particular mainboard, because of it's implementation of DVI port.

While this is true, DVI-D only supports a max of around 10Gb/s, which is much lower then the 18Gb/s of HDMI 2.0. The bandwidth limitation also prevents DVI from going above 4k 30Hz.

Whole point of my statement was to highlight the fact that it's not a "DVI-D" what we have on our boards. It was mentioned few times in this thread that we have DVI and it's a misconception. What we have is HDMI 1.4, which just uses physical DVI plug. If it was DVI, it's maximum pixel clock would be 165 MHz and it wouldn't be able to do [email protected] However it's not DVI, it's HDMI 1.4 so it's max. pixel clock is 340 MHz and therefore it can do [email protected] (which requires roughly 255 MHz btw.).

For completeness, to be able to do uncompressed [email protected], one needs HDMI 2.0 with it's even higher 600 MHz max. pixel clock and that's why we have the other HDMI 2.0 output on our board (on-board converted from DP).
(2017-01-24, 14:43)oo.viper.oo Wrote: [ -> ]For completeness, to be able to do uncompressed [email protected], one needs HDMI 2.0 with it's even higher 600 MHz max. pixel clock and that's why we have the other HDMI 2.0 output on our board (on-board converted from DP).

If you want to be fully complete - then you can also consider that the HDMI 2.0 4:2:0 8-bit YCbCr 2160/50-60p mode can be carried at the lower, HDMI 1.4b clock rate (which is how NVidia and Sony were able to upgrade graphics cards and TVs with HDMI 1.4b physical hardware to support this bit of HDMI 2.0)

You only need the HDMI 2.0-specific higher bandwidth for the 2160/50-60p 4:2:2 and >8 bit 4:2:0 modes I believe. (There isn't a 4:4:4 RGB or YCbCr implementation for >30p at 2160p even with HDMI 2.0)
(2017-01-24, 00:36)raidflex Wrote: [ -> ]I have a Samsung JS8500 (2015) TV and do not have any issues on Libreelec. This may be an issue with Windows 10 I suspect, you may need to create an EDID file and install this on WIndows 10 for your TV.

Try this link, it may help even though its for loss of audio.

http://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=251833

Could these issues have been introduced with Samsung's 2016 range as I'm having these problems?

I'm happy with [email protected] for the time being but I'm hoping ASRock/LibreElec/Samsung release updates to fix the issues.

The downside to being at the bleeding edge.
(2017-01-19, 20:43)piotrasd Wrote: [ -> ]suspend as i know dont work yet fully, maybe someting work but only on drm-nightly kernel in my build, they still working on it Wink
(from time to time i see commits arround suspend support and broxton GPU)
https://patchwork.freedesktop.org/series/15833/

anyway is no problem to cold boot from remote (RC6 compatible)

jus for test for people with EDID problem or with suspend latest build with some patches waiting for merge
https://www.sendspace.com/file/hy6n74

and here latest regular build
https://www.sendspace.com/file/xdgg5i

So I got your patch and it works well on my Intel NUC Apollo Lake running LibreElec. I'm wondering what the optimal Kodi settings are for this build/GPU driver?

Thanks in advance!