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(2018-10-25, 17:44)aerogems Wrote: [ -> ]Also, since you mention BT2020, I assume you're interested in HDR content. In which case, you want to avoid LibreELEC, as it doesn't support HDR period from what I can tell.

That is incorrect info, in the case of community builds.

Quote:The Vero does, and there are one or two Vero reps lurking around here to help answer questions which is always a plus, but the fatal flaw (IMO) is that they do not support Netflix or Prime Video without having to go way out of your way.

The v8.2.5.x LibreELEC releases and the CoreELEC 9.x releases share a common AMLogic Linux Kernel with Vero 4K+ and yes they all support HDR10 on HDR capable hardware. Average and peak brightness levels for 3 or 4 problem titles has been fixed.

Quote:If you want Netflix and/or Prime Video, the Shield is probably still the best option there is right now.

The Apple TV 4K is actually the preferred media player for those because it has Frame Rate and Dynamic Range Matching support for use with these Apps. Plus there is working DolbyVision and Dolby Atmos, and I've seen no complaints about strangely shaded or washed out color outputs.

(2018-10-25, 17:44)aerogems Wrote: [ -> ]

(2018-10-25, 16:34)rylsiem Wrote: [ -> ]Hi,
I haven't kept up with the latest 80 pages of posts or so, but I take it that the automatic switching of the color space of the Shield is still not resolved. I'm not sure how to even test this out on my own Shield device, because when I go to HDMI settings, it's set to a recommended REC709 setting and when I change it to let's say BT2020, go out of the settings and come back in, it defaults again to the recommended REC709 one.

I'm contemplating like some others to buy a Vero 4K+ device as well for Kodi or the Minix U9-H with LibreElec. Any advantages of one device over the other?

Thanks in advance.

 You can take this for whatever it's worth, since it's just a single anecdotal example, but... Not too long ago I spent maybe a good hour or so flipping between 709 and 2020 color gamuts and then closely looking at the same scene of a TV show. Yes, the UI elements were washed out looking, but when it came to the actual video, I could not tell any difference. What helped even more was making sure to do a quick recalibration on 2020, and to make sure my TV was set to "Warm2" for the color temp. I can only speak to my own experience, but I kind of suspect people just saw the washed out looking UI elements and assumed that it would be that way for everything. A reasonable assumption in most circumstances, but not accurate in this case from my experience.

Also, since you mention BT2020, I assume you're interested in HDR content. In which case, you want to avoid LibreELEC, as it doesn't support HDR period from what I can tell. The Vero does, and there are one or two Vero reps lurking around here to help answer questions which is always a plus, but the fatal flaw (IMO) is that they do not support Netflix or Prime Video without having to go way out of your way. If you want Netflix and/or Prime Video, the Shield is probably still the best option there is right now. 

Thanks for the reply. Right now I'm not even able to do the test between 709 and 2020 color gamuts because of the issue I seem to have with my Shield. I've also come to the conclusion that there is no single perfect device and I've already made peace that with the current landscape of media players I will have to resort to at least two with different purposes. Currently I'm thinking that the Vero 4k+ will be a very good candidate for solely Kodi playback and the Apple TV 4K for any stream related content which will at least give me Netflix in 4K/HDR10/Atmos and Itunes 4k/HDR10/Atmos for more recent movies.

(2018-10-25, 17:48)noggin Wrote: [ -> ]

(2018-10-25, 17:44)aerogems Wrote: [ -> ]Also, since you mention BT2020, I assume you're interested in HDR content. In which case, you want to avoid LibreELEC, as it doesn't support HDR period from what I can tell. The Vero does, and there are one or two Vero reps lurking around here to help answer questions which is always a plus, but the fatal flaw (IMO) is that they do not support Netflix or Prime Video without having to go way out of your way. If you want Netflix and/or Prime Video, the Shield is probably still the best option there is right now. 

Some LibreElec/CoreElec builds for some platforms - like the AMLogic S912/S905X platforms (e.g. Minix U9-H) do support HDR10 10-bit output (some kernels seem to add 10->8->10 bit dithering though) and there can be issues with the correct metadata for average and peak light levels being correctly passed AIUI? And as you say the Vero 4K (S905X) and Vero 4K+ (S905D) handle it in OSMC. 

Thanks for the additional clarification. It makes my choice a bit easier to go with the Vero 4K+. Is there any performance improvement between the Vero 4K and 4k+ as well or is the S905X and S905D pretty much the same?

Hello,  the last Upgrade 7.1
Is it ready for use without problems
with Sound Passthrough in Kodi or Netflix or any problems ?
Thanks

(2018-10-26, 01:09)wrxtasy Wrote: [ -> ]

(2018-10-25, 17:44)aerogems Wrote: [ -> ]Also, since you mention BT2020, I assume you're interested in HDR content. In which case, you want to avoid LibreELEC, as it doesn't support HDR period from what I can tell.

That is incorrect info, in the case of community builds.

Quote:The Vero does, and there are one or two Vero reps lurking around here to help answer questions which is always a plus, but the fatal flaw (IMO) is that they do not support Netflix or Prime Video without having to go way out of your way.

The v8.2.5.x LibreELEC releases and the CoreELEC 9.x releases share a common AMLogic Linux Kernel with Vero 4K+ and yes they all support HDR10 on HDR capable hardware. Average and peak brightness levels for 3 or 4 problem titles has been fixed.

Quote:If you want Netflix and/or Prime Video, the Shield is probably still the best option there is right now.

The Apple TV 4K is actually the preferred media player for those because it has Frame Rate and Dynamic Range Matching support for use with these Apps. Plus there is working DolbyVision and Dolby Atmos, and I've seen no complaints about strangely shaded or washed out color outputs. 

Thanks for the additional explanation. It seems that it solidifies my choice of going with the Vero 4K+ and Apple TV 4K combo. Still hoping in my heart for the unicorn media player that truly can play everything without any issues. It would be nice if it can also add an HDR optimizer the way Panasonic has it implemented in the UB820 blu-ray player

(2018-10-26, 01:09)wrxtasy Wrote: [ -> ]The Apple TV 4K is actually the preferred media player for those because it has Frame Rate and Dynamic Range Matching support for use with these Apps. Plus there is working DolbyVision and Dolby Atmos, and I've seen no complaints about strangely shaded or washed out color outputs. 

Since we're on a Kodi forum, I figured the person would want to be able to also run Kodi. There's MrMC, yes, but in a lot of ways it's a pale shadow of Kodi. Though I do wish the Kodi devs would steal their idea of a built-in Plex/Emby client. The PlexKodiConnect addon might be a good source to start with.

The amount of DolbyVision content out there is pretty slim, and it requires you have a corresponding DolbyVision capable display. Maybe I'll end up being wrong, but DV just seems like it's going to be the next Betamax or HD-DVD. It is without question a technically superior format to HDR10, even HDR10+, but particularly for people coming from the SDR world, HDR10(+) is good enough, 10-15% cheaper, and easier to find content for. Right now, the same goes for Atmos and DTS:X. The number of people who have even a 5.1 setup is small, let alone people who have a 5.1.2/7.1.2 config. However, Kodi will bitstream Atmos audio just fine, and I assume it can also convert it to multi-channel PCM/stereo. I've never found any content with DTS:X audio, but I would assume that too can be bitstreamed via the Shield, but the ATV might choke on it.

And as I said, I think a lot of people are just assuming everything looks washed out because the UI elements look washed out. It's probably something to do with the chroma subsampling, which would be a lot more noticeable on smaller icons relative to a 720/1080/4k image. My experiences are just that, but I looked very hard for differences in the actual video, and I found none. Plus some people over on the nVidia forums did a check and the Shield is outputting almost perfect levels for all the colors. IIRC, the green is just a little outside the target range. To this observer, the Shield's color matching is perfect where it counts: playing video.

(2018-10-26, 01:52)rylsiem Wrote: [ -> ]Thanks for the reply. Right now I'm not even able to do the test between 709 and 2020 color gamuts because of the issue I seem to have with my Shield. I've also come to the conclusion that there is no single perfect device and I've already made peace that with the current landscape of media players I will have to resort to at least two with different purposes. Currently I'm thinking that the Vero 4k+ will be a very good candidate for solely Kodi playback and the Apple TV 4K for any stream related content which will at least give me Netflix in 4K/HDR10/Atmos and Itunes 4k/HDR10/Atmos for more recent movies. 

 No perfect device... tell me about it! There are several that are almost, but none that are everything. Anyway, you may want to hold off and see what reviews are of the new FireTV Stick 4K that should release at the end of the month. You have to sideload Kodi, but it's a whole lot easier to do than the ATV. It also supports DolbyVision and Atmos audio according to the specs. The real question will be how well it does framerate and color switching. There's also Xiaomi's latest Mi Box, which may or may not fix the issues with its predecessor and royally piss off everyone who owns the older model, and whether you want to risk there being some kind of Chinese spyware installed.

(2018-10-26, 02:35)aerogems Wrote: [ -> ]The amount of DolbyVision content out there is pretty slim, and it requires you have a corresponding DolbyVision capable display. Maybe I'll end up being wrong, but DV just seems like it's going to be the next Betamax or HD-DVD.

I seriously doubt that, especially when you see the biggest Video Streaming platform on the planet supporting it - that being Netflix.
And then you have this ever growing list of affordable content ....

Full list: 4K HDR (Dolby Vision) & Dolby Atmos movies on iTunes

Dolby (insert whatever Tech here) is a very successfully branded and marketed technology. No matter what the company comes up with it's a trusted mainstream brand and is exactly what consumers look for when they think of quality, irrespective of whether such labelling is true or not. Marketing is a very powerful thing.

If NVIDIA were going to jump in bed with anything Dolby they would have done it by now after 3.5 years.

All the above really are considered "Extras" to what in this forum, people are looking for. That being a Plug n Play, minimal hassles, Kodi capable platform.

(2018-10-26, 03:16)wrxtasy Wrote: [ -> ]

(2018-10-26, 02:35)aerogems Wrote: [ -> ]The amount of DolbyVision content out there is pretty slim, and it requires you have a corresponding DolbyVision capable display. Maybe I'll end up being wrong, but DV just seems like it's going to be the next Betamax or HD-DVD.

I seriously doubt that, especially when you see the biggest Video Streaming platform on the planet supporting it - that being Netflix.
And then you have this ever growing list of affordable content ....

Full list: 4K HDR (Dolby Vision) & Dolby Atmos movies on iTunes

Dolby (insert whatever Tech here) is a very successfully branded and marketed technology. No matter what the company comes up with it's a trusted mainstream brand and is exactly what consumers look for when they think of quality, irrespective of whether such labelling is true or not. Marketing is a very powerful thing.

If NVIDIA were going to jump in bed with anything Dolby they would have done it by now after 3.5 years.

All the above really are considered "Extras" to what in this forum, people are looking for. That being a Plug n Play, minimal hassles, Kodi capable platform. 

 Just out of curiosity, how many of those were actually recorded/filmed using DV/Atmos vs just being run through some conversion program? But even taking all of those on the list, vs all the movies made to date, plus all the ones being made now, it's a pretty small list. Personally, if I had to put money on any format, I'd do it on HLG, because it's likely going to be pushed by broadcast and cable networks, so will become what most people consider to be HDR. I don't really care which one wins, I just want the industry to settle on one format. 

In the mean time, I will continue on my quest to find that one perfect box that does everything I want. Hopefully the fact that currently there are a lot of "almost" devices means in a generation or two there will be multiple devices that can do the job.

(2018-10-26, 01:55)rylsiem Wrote: [ -> ]

(2018-10-25, 17:48)noggin Wrote: [ -> ]

(2018-10-25, 17:44)aerogems Wrote: [ -> ]Also, since you mention BT2020, I assume you're interested in HDR content. In which case, you want to avoid LibreELEC, as it doesn't support HDR period from what I can tell. The Vero does, and there are one or two Vero reps lurking around here to help answer questions which is always a plus, but the fatal flaw (IMO) is that they do not support Netflix or Prime Video without having to go way out of your way. If you want Netflix and/or Prime Video, the Shield is probably still the best option there is right now. 

Some LibreElec/CoreElec builds for some platforms - like the AMLogic S912/S905X platforms (e.g. Minix U9-H) do support HDR10 10-bit output (some kernels seem to add 10->8->10 bit dithering though) and there can be issues with the correct metadata for average and peak light levels being correctly passed AIUI? And as you say the Vero 4K (S905X) and Vero 4K+ (S905D) handle it in OSMC.    

Thanks for the additional clarification. It makes my choice a bit easier to go with the Vero 4K+. Is there any performance improvement between the Vero 4K and 4k+ as well or is the S905X and S905D pretty much the same?   

The main difference, AIUI, is the the Vero 4K+ has Gigabit Ethernet, whilst the Vero 4K has 100Mbs Ethernet and for high bitrate UHD Blu-ray rips you really need something better than 100Mbs.  

If you already have a Vero 4K you can use an extenal USB 3->GigE adaptor in a USB 2.0 port which, whilst not providing full GigE speed, will give you speeds fast enough for the demanding UHD Blu-ray rips.  If buying from new, I'd seriously consider the 4K+ if you want to play UHD BD rips.

AIUI there is no video quality difference between the two models.

(2018-10-25, 17:44)aerogems Wrote: [ -> ]Also, since you mention BT2020, I assume you're interested in HDR content. In which case, you want to avoid LibreELEC, as it doesn't support HDR period from what I can tell. The Vero does, and there are one or two Vero reps lurking around here to help answer questions which is always a plus, but the fatal flaw (IMO) is that they do not support Netflix or Prime Video without having to go way out of your way. If you want Netflix and/or Prime Video, the Shield is probably still the best option there is right now. 

The nVidia Shield TV doesn't do automatic frame rate switching in either Netflix or Amazon Prime. The Apple TV does - and it supports Dolby Vision and Dolby Atmos audio from streaming services. I have both devices and always use the Apple TV 4K for Netflix and Amazon for these reasons. (If you don't need Dolby Vision then Roku solutions are the cheapest Netflix and Amazon Prime devices I've seen with frame rate switching) Netflix and Amazon both have content at multiple frame rates so this is an issue if you care about picture quality (and have a TV that can cope with all frame rates - as we Europeans usually do)

The Apple TV 4K doesn't have an easy-to-install Kodi solution, but does have the MrMC forked version.  The Apple TV also doesn't bitstream DTS-HD MA or Dolby True HD, but it will decoded 48KHz tracks in these formats losslessly to PCM multichannel (but AIUI the rare 96kHz and 192kHz tracks will be downsampled?), and Dolby Atmos lossless tracks and DTS:x won't bitstream so you lose the additional height channels. (Apple TV 4K only streams lossy Dolby Atmos from streaming services, not the lossless version from Blu-rays)

Yet again - there is no perfect solution.

If you want the best quality Netflix and Amazon Prime (and other streaming services) then the Apple TV 4K is a great solution - particularly if you have Dolby Vision and Atmos gear.  (But keep across the new Amazon Fire TV 4K and the Roku solutions too - as they may be more cost effective and also have frame rate switching implemented and may now support DV and Atmos too - and at a lower price point)
If you want a great solution for Kodi, then the AMLogic S905X/D or S912 (with caveats) LibreElec/CoreElec solutions are very good.  The nVidia Shield TV is a compromise that does both - but it does have some compromises.

There still isn't a single box that does Kodi and Netflix/Amazon without compromises.

(2018-10-26, 05:28)aerogems Wrote: [ -> ]

(2018-10-26, 03:16)wrxtasy Wrote: [ -> ]

(2018-10-26, 02:35)aerogems Wrote: [ -> ]The amount of DolbyVision content out there is pretty slim, and it requires you have a corresponding DolbyVision capable display. Maybe I'll end up being wrong, but DV just seems like it's going to be the next Betamax or HD-DVD.

I seriously doubt that, especially when you see the biggest Video Streaming platform on the planet supporting it - that being Netflix.
And then you have this ever growing list of affordable content ....

Full list: 4K HDR (Dolby Vision) & Dolby Atmos movies on iTunes

Dolby (insert whatever Tech here) is a very successfully branded and marketed technology. No matter what the company comes up with it's a trusted mainstream brand and is exactly what consumers look for when they think of quality, irrespective of whether such labelling is true or not. Marketing is a very powerful thing.

If NVIDIA were going to jump in bed with anything Dolby they would have done it by now after 3.5 years.

All the above really are considered "Extras" to what in this forum, people are looking for. That being a Plug n Play, minimal hassles, Kodi capable platform. 

 Just out of curiosity, how many of those were actually recorded/filmed using DV/Atmos vs just being run through some conversion program? But even taking all of those on the list, vs all the movies made to date, plus all the ones being made now, it's a pretty small list. Personally, if I had to put money on any format, I'd do it on HLG, because it's likely going to be pushed by broadcast and cable networks, so will become what most people consider to be HDR. I don't really care which one wins, I just want the industry to settle on one format. 

In the mean time, I will continue on my quest to find that one perfect box that does everything I want. Hopefully the fact that currently there are a lot of "almost" devices means in a generation or two there will be multiple devices that can do the job.

So why also 4K?
Most movies are mastered in 2K (1080p basically).

(2018-10-26, 02:42)aerogems Wrote: [ -> ]

(2018-10-26, 01:52)rylsiem Wrote: [ -> ]Thanks for the reply. Right now I'm not even able to do the test between 709 and 2020 color gamuts because of the issue I seem to have with my Shield. I've also come to the conclusion that there is no single perfect device and I've already made peace that with the current landscape of media players I will have to resort to at least two with different purposes. Currently I'm thinking that the Vero 4k+ will be a very good candidate for solely Kodi playback and the Apple TV 4K for any stream related content which will at least give me Netflix in 4K/HDR10/Atmos and Itunes 4k/HDR10/Atmos for more recent movies. 

 No perfect device... tell me about it! There are several that are almost, but none that are everything. Anyway, you may want to hold off and see what reviews are of the new FireTV Stick 4K that should release at the end of the month. You have to sideload Kodi, but it's a whole lot easier to do than the ATV. It also supports DolbyVision and Atmos audio according to the specs. The real question will be how well it does framerate and color switching. There's also Xiaomi's latest Mi Box, which may or may not fix the issues with its predecessor and royally piss off everyone who owns the older model, and whether you want to risk there being some kind of Chinese spyware installed. 

Thanks for the suggestions on the FireTV Stick 4K and the Xiaomi's S box. I had a look at the specs for the FireTV stick on the Amazon website, but it seems it only allows HDMI audio passthrough up to 5.1 currently which is a deal breaker for me when it comes to Kodi playback of 4K/DTS-X material. It may still make a good alternative though for the Apple TV 4K device if it can do Netflix/HDR/4K/Atmos for me.

(2018-10-26, 17:13)rylsiem Wrote: [ -> ]Thanks for the suggestions on the FireTV Stick 4K and the Xiaomi's S box. I had a look at the specs for the FireTV stick on the Amazon website, but it seems it only allows HDMI audio passthrough up to 5.1 currently which is a deal breaker for me when it comes to Kodi playback of 4K/DTS-X material. It may still make a good alternative though for the Apple TV 4K device if it can do Netflix/HDR/4K/Atmos for me. 

That part seems odd to me quite frankly. If it's doing audio passthrough, it shouldn't know or care what the signal is, it just assumes the device on the other end can make sense of it. I suspect someone has been kind of sloppy with updating the Amazon pages. The Fire TV Cube says it has a new version coming out as well, but if you look, the specs listed appear to still be for the previous version. It seems unlikely the Stick version CPU would run at up to 1.7GHz, while the Cube version is limited to 1.5GHz given you have more room for better cooling in the Cube. May be worth waiting until people have the devices in hand and actually put some of these things to the test before ultimately dismissing it.