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Why does it take so incredibly long to load an album with 4000 songs in it? It doesnt make any difference if the source is from the local drive or a from a local network source. It needs this loading time every time I want to play the album or other album with a lot of songs in them.
Is there a way to speed up this process?

If I play the same album with good old Winamp it plays in a second.

For this I still use winamp.
With 4000 songs that is some "album"!!

There is a known weakness in Kodi with viewing the songs node, or adding a large number of songs to the current playlist. It is nothing to do with the database or where the files are located, but down to how Kodi maniuplates data in internal memory. A solution requires a major redesign, but people are looking into doing that.

For myself I still question why anyone wants so many songs in a list, I find it better to choose the music I want to listen to at the time. Kodi music library is far better at that than Winamp. But if Winamp does what you need then great.
(2017-01-28, 11:54)DaveBlake Wrote: [ -> ]With 4000 songs that is some "album"!!

There is a known weakness in Kodi with viewing the songs node, or adding a large number of songs to the current playlist. It is nothing to do with the database or where the files are located, but down to how Kodi maniuplates data in internal memory. A solution requires a major redesign, but people are looking into doing that.

For myself I still question why anyone wants so many songs in a list, I find it better to choose the music I want to listen to at the time. Kodi music library is far better at that than Winamp. But if Winamp does what you need then great.
Well, good to hear people are looking into it.

Why I have such large albums or playlist shouldn't matter but I'll tell you.
I have all my 80's and 90's songs in seperated folders and I like to listen to them all randomly without having to choose myself. Winamp also has the nice option to remove the played songs from the playlist.

For now Winamp will still be my number one but one day I hope Kodi can work as Winamp does and Kodi takes it as an example. Some Winamp plugins are a mushave for Kodi than as well.

Thanks.
(2017-01-28, 14:16)heula Wrote: [ -> ]I have all my 80's and 90's songs in seperated folders and I like to listen to them all randomly without having to choose myself. Winamp also has the nice option to remove the played songs from the playlist.
Kodi can support that kind of use (without slow loading issues) via "Party Mode", assuming that your music files are tagged and have been added to the music library.

Go to smart playlists, and edit the rules of the default playlist called "party Mode", using them to select the genre or path etc. of songs you want. Then from anywhere in the lib when you choose "Party Mode" from the side blade you get those songs played randomly (without repeats).
(2017-01-28, 14:25)DaveBlake Wrote: [ -> ]
(2017-01-28, 14:16)heula Wrote: [ -> ]I have all my 80's and 90's songs in seperated folders and I like to listen to them all randomly without having to choose myself. Winamp also has the nice option to remove the played songs from the playlist.
Kodi can support that kind of use (without slow loading issues) via "Party Mode", assuming that your music files are tagged and have been added to the music library.

Go to smart playlists, and edit the rules of the default playlist called "party Mode", using them to select the genre or path etc. of songs you want. Then from anywhere in the lib when you choose "Party Mode" from the side blade you get those songs played randomly (without repeats).
Okay, will try that. Does this goes faster?
(2017-01-28, 11:54)DaveBlake Wrote: [ -> ]With 4000 songs that is some "album"!!

No, but it could simply be a folder that should be played!

Quote:There is a known weakness in Kodi with viewing the songs node, or adding a large number of songs to the current playlist. It is nothing to do with the database or where the files are located, but down to how Kodi maniuplates data in internal memory. A solution requires a major redesign, but people are looking into doing that.

Pls, Dave, do us a favor and let us participate here! What's the magic kodi's doing here? Who's looking into it and where? I'm unable to find any discussion on that topic? Transparency would help understanding.

Quote:For myself I still question why anyone wants so many songs in a list, I find it better to choose the music I want to listen to at the time. Kodi music library is far better at that than Winamp. But if Winamp does what you need then great.
Sorry, there's no need to question a user's decision. Let's stay on KISS principle: if something is possible, it should work. Simple as that. If I'm able to hit play on a folder, kodi simply should do that. It's possible, so it should work. If it's not working, why is it possible? That's all to question...
(2017-01-28, 14:28)heula Wrote: [ -> ]
(2017-01-28, 14:25)DaveBlake Wrote: [ -> ]Kodi can support that kind of use (without slow loading issues) via "Party Mode", assuming that your music files are tagged and have been added to the music library....
Okay, will try that. Does this goes faster?
Yes. Party Mode is the best way in Kodi to handle playing a long list of songs randomly.

(2017-01-29, 13:41)Rusendusen Wrote: [ -> ]Pls, Dave, do us a favor and let us participate here! What's the magic kodi's doing here? Who's looking into it and where? I'm unable to find any discussion on that topic? Transparency would help understanding.
I guess for now they, and it is not me, just want to work quietly and make some progress. Much as I love to discuss and explain, it does reduce the amount of time I have to actually get changes done!!

Quote:Sorry, there's no need to question a user's decision.
I question people's choices all the time, it is not a criticism, just me thinking aloud. Sometimes I think "hey what a great idea", others I think "that's bonkers". Just like other users I often express my opinion too. Sometimes I get an inspiring reply that changes my view and behaviour. Often users actually want something other than what they seem to ask for, so there is a need to question decisions.
Quote:Let's stay on KISS principle: if something is possible, it should work. Simple as that. If I'm able to hit play on a folder, kodi simply should do that. It's possible, so it should work. If it's not working, why is it possible? That's all to question...
It does work, it is just slow in some situations. :p

There is a flaw in what you say too. The quickest fix that fits your principle, and it has been suggested more than once by other devs, is that the songs node be removed. That is make it impossible for the user to create large lists of songs. But that is not a good solution is it?

From time to time we hear from users that "Kodi does not do what <insert own choice of other old software> can". As a volunteer dev that statement does not make me want to rush off and make Kodi do what XXX does. It is simple, if XXX already does the job then use that.
Doesn't meant a specific user's decision, but the general behind it.
Remove Songs from music, fine with that! If it's not working in an acceptable speed, away with it! But in the consequence, that what stays should do it's job.

Searching the Artist node for a specific artist and adding that artist to playlist (in thos specific case 76 songs) takes app 1 minute, makes gui hang and stops currently playing audio. 1 minute silence with unusable gui for 76 songs? No spinning busy indicator.

Maybe it's just me being unable to use a media center, maybe it's cause it's "only" a RPi3 or maybe a too large collection? Certainly, not everything is done within the flick of an eye (being it songs added to playlist or changes being coded), but I fully support the silent ones stating that it needs separation, it needs to keep the gui free.

If the way kodi processes music works for 4000 songs in an acceptable pace, it would be hell of a fun to use on 76. So why not head to the 4000 instead of removing and questioning?
Doh, silly me. I'll rush of and do exacltly what you want immediately. But of course I won't have time to respond to your PM Smile
That's certainly what I wanted to read! :-(
I am human, poke me with a stick and I get grumpy!

I explained there is a known flaw with large lists being slow to display. It is a fundamental design issue so is not esy to fix, but I understand it enough to know I do not have the resources (time, skill, others to collaborate with) to even begin to address it. Instead I offer the user a work around, that is the best I've got.

I admit that I am not too distressed about that, but nothing would be gained even if I were. Some people may see the slowness of very large lists of songs as a terrible flaw, but as a user myself I have never found it a problem. Why is that? Well for me a digital library is all about being able to easily make short lists that target my needs, not wade through the lot. So I observe this users need, and I compare it to my own, and I conclude that Kodi is useable even if it isn't what everyone wants. I also conclude that if I work on things that make targeted lists easier, something I do have the resouces for, then that will be of benefit.

Then @Rusendusen I hear from you that "Kodi should do this", that it is "unacceptable" etc. Well you are entitled to your view, that is fine, but it also sounds like you want me to do something more. Well your wanting and repeating does not make the resources appear, and the frustration of being on the receiving end makes me understand why some of the long standing dev team members have a little to do with users as possible.

So let the grumpy guy chill out a bit, and no doubt in a short while usual friendly service will be resumed.
(2017-01-30, 13:23)DaveBlake Wrote: [ -> ]I am human, poke me with a stick and I get grumpy!

Sorry for that feeling I may have induced!
But asking for a statement isn't poking with a stick, that's my view on humanity.

Quote:I explained there is a known flaw with large lists being slow to display. It is a fundamental design issue so is not esy to fix, but I understand it enough to know I do not have the resources (time, skill, others to collaborate with) to even begin to address it. Instead I offer the user a work around, that is the best I've got.

Thx for stating that and making it clear! I certainly respect set limits!

Quote:I admit that I am not too distressed about that, but nothing would be gained even if I were. Some people may see the slowness of very large lists of songs as a terrible flaw, but as a user myself I have never found it a problem. Why is that? Well for me a digital library is all about being able to easily make short lists that target my needs, not wade through the lot. So I observe this users need, and I compare it to my own, and I conclude that Kodi is useable even if it isn't what everyone wants. I also conclude that if I work on things that make targeted lists easier, something I do have the resouces for, then that will be of benefit.

Fine with that, too. You decide what you want to work at.
From what I've read regarding further development of kodi, I only doubt it being easy to convince the ones in charge as long as the flaws from above aren't addressed, too. I may also have read wrong here...
May I ask for a short statement if these plans of yours together with your set limits are negotiated and agreed?

Quote:Then @Rusendusen I hear from you that "Kodi should do this", that it is "unacceptable" etc. Well you are entitled to your view, that is fine, but it also sounds like you want me to do something more. Well your wanting and repeating does not make the resources appear, and the frustration of being on the receiving end makes me understand why some of the long standing dev team members have a little to do with users as possible.

Honestly, in v16 the only real use for the DB is to find artwork more easily and to aggregate long lists showing the flaws. Maybe searching is possible, too (My view may be too short here and I oversee other benefits). It would just be nice to have a level of agreement...
It's not your fault or responsibility and it probably is more than prior to v16.
Further, I don't see you being responsible for to fix these flaws. Lastly no one is, as it is open source. If there's one with the interest, resources and skill, it's his (or hers) decision to take responsibility. (btw, no one is responsible for my wishes, but me...)
I haven't had the chance to test v17 thoroughly and have a look at the additions and changes you made, as I firstly wanted to have my productive system working. That's where I stumbled upon these flaws and found the one with deeper knowledge being you, so I asked (and yes, I also suggested, but not with the aim of making someone responsible, but to find a level of agreement regarding the current state). I've learned about restrictions, the positive effects of MBIDs and other small things, so I decided to wait with v17 until my data is in an acceptable state to head over. Main goal is to not come up with "usermade" confusions (being it wrong tagged data, corrupted DB, etc). If I start testing v17. I want to keep the mistakes from my side as few as possible, to not poke around or eat up someone elses time.

Again, and I state that as clearly as possible, the only one being responsible from my perspective is the collective. It's responsible for devs hiding, for blaming, for claiming something isn't working without providing logs or proper infos, for misuse of what a media center is made for, etc... but even for success, popularity, etc etc.

I can't see my fault for calling something unacceptable which is only accepted simply because no one has the resources to fix. A working state is always more acceptable than a not working one, that's for sure.
It's not you or your efforts I'm calling unacceptable.
The feeling I've got from reading around is that music in kodi is in an accepted state (dev wise), but not in a good state
I found a question in the wall of text

Quote:May I ask for a short statement if these plans of yours together with your set limits are negotiated and agreed?
I don't know who I am meant to negotiate and agree anything with? And unfortunately I am not sure how much time I have to spend on Kodi, or how much I will get done in that time. Software always takes longer than you want it too, and I may get diverted into supporting users, having long discussions, or fixing essential bugs. I am a limited resource, but it is hard to qualtify what that limit means exactly. Also any thing I do then needs approveal, which will take an unknown time outside my control and may not be forthcomming in the end.

My work is sequential, change upon change, so practically I have to wait for one PR to clear (or not) before I submit the next. I can tell you that the next thing I have waiting is the processing of ARTISTSORT tags and the facility to sort using that rather than name.

I am still debating if I work on making that available via JSON API too, or if I leave JSON changes to do in a block.

My feeling is to get as many tags processed as possible, before adding functionality around them, so I would probably look at correct date tag handling release vs original. But there are other niggles, and if I can se any low hanging fruit I might pick that. But I have custom tag handling in mind too.

It is planning for one, and Kodi is a hobby (I take it seriously, but it is meant to be fun), so it is pretty lose.

Quote:The feeling I've got from reading around is that music in kodi is in an accepted state (dev wise), but not in a good state
I feel it is unfair on all those that went before me to say "music is not in a good state". Relative to what? From where I am it has lots of happy users. It could always be better, of course it could, but all of Kodi has a mix of both wonders and terrors. I feel music is a little bit of a Cinderalla, most of the team aren't familiar with it so the assupmtion is it must contain a monster, and it really doesn't. Or to be honest the monster is something that video and music libraries have in common. From a data schema view point the music db is fine compared to video. But it is not a competition. It is not about being defensive either, but it is too easy to talk things down.
Basically your use case, 4000 songs in an album is not a good idea. There are better and much nicer ways to do this.

Nodes or Smart playlists is the answer here.
(2017-02-02, 17:15)docwra Wrote: [ -> ]Basically your use case, 4000 songs in an album is not a good idea. There are better and much nicer ways to do this.

Nodes or Smart playlists is the answer here.

The smartest way for me is to keep using Winamp for playing music. It does everything I want including playing large albums or playlists.
It's just a pitty Winamp is not part of Kodi. It would be a perfect system than.

Smart Playlists in Kodi doesn't come near the way Winamp handles music and the speed it does with.

At least a discussion about music in Kodi has started if that wasn't already the case. I know enough for now.
Thanks.
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